Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 47 Discussion / Poll

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

I am not sure why people think Rustal is in the business of letting Iok die even if Rustal didn't care about him at all. As the Defender of the Status Quo, Leaving More Seven Star Families Heirless does not benefit Stability and the Long Term Standing of Gjhallahorn at all. And I say Rustal care a bit or he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of grounding Iok and giving him a few lectures.

Rustal has been shown to be more or less Ioks guardian/role model

My bet is that he's afraid that if he doesn't live up to that role he will be hounded by Iok's men 24/7 possibly leading to him committing suicide

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Skye629

An Order wont count for crap since McGillis has been booted from the organization (and is known to be a false heir to the Fareed name), he now has ZERO claims to such a reward, even if he performed the feat

Pretty much this. It will be interesting to see what he will do, since there isn't much he can do.

However, I've actually thought from the beginning that in order to fix Gjallarhorn, you would have to scrap all remnants of the Seven Stars. I thought that Macky would fake his own death in order to accomplish this. However, in a way, Rustal helped remove that problem by separating him from the Seven Stars altogether. Doing that, he's now just like all the outsiders and now you can really just do an entire clean slate wipe of that part of the organization.

The only thing I can think of for him, if he is still set on his goals, is to cause the collapse of all of Gjallarhorn, and then to raise something else up in its wake. Basically for him to become like Agnika and create something totally new. It would be a much, much harder path for him to take, and he would have to rethink a whole lot of things, but it could indeed be possible. I think if you get rid of Rustal and much of the stranglehold that he has over everyone, Macky would actually have a lot more people on his side. Right now, everyone's afraid, and thus the reason he and Tekkadan have lost a lot of their support.

[Wing Kigu]

Originally Posted by Skye629

An Order wont count for crap since McGillis has been booted from the organization (and is known to be a false heir to the Fareed name), he now has ZERO claims to such a reward, even if he performed the feat

Dammit! I was thinking the only way for McGillis to turn it around would be to somehow get Rustal (or Gaelio fighting in his stead) into a one on one duel but he's not technically in Gjhallarhorn anymore so he can't call on the Old Gjhallarhorn ways. He's screwed lol. Even a mobile armor can't save him. Literally a no win scenario.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

I am not sure why people think Rustal is in the business of letting Iok die even if Rustal didn't care about him at all. As the Defender of the Status Quo, Leaving More Seven Star Families Heirless does not benefit Stability and the Long Term Standing of Gjhallahorn at all. And I say Rustal care a bit or he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of grounding Iok and giving him a few lectures.

But then, why did he let him go out to fight in a freakin' Graze, one of the weakest suits in the show? I mean, the only thing probably weaker than that is mobile worker!

Of course, it could be possible that Iok wanted so much to prove himself that he went down to kill McGillis himself without Rustal's permission. He's done that before (to everyone's detriment). I can see him saying "That illegitimate commoner can't get the best of me, who is of noble blood. I will show the world that I don't even need anything special to defeat him. I will show him what a person with real nobility can do!"

And I could also see him trying to challenge Macky to a duel similarly to what Carta tried to do. McGillis would either take up the challenge to show Bael's might, or he would fight dirty now that he no longer has a position to uphold.

[Skaddix]

We sure they are fighting one on one could be the PPV cut.

[tdx]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

I am not sure why people think Rustal is in the business of letting Iok die even if Rustal didn't care about him at all. As the Defender of the Status Quo, Leaving More Seven Star Families Heirless does not benefit Stability and the Long Term Standing of Gjhallahorn at all. And I say Rustal care a bit or he wouldn't have gone to the trouble of grounding Iok and giving him a few lectures.

I'd say Rustal doesn't mind preserving some 7 stars heirs, especially when they're like putty in his hands like Iok is, but I think he doesn't exactly mind being the only 7 star left and becoming the supreme leader of GH. After all, Rustal let Iok go into some potentially hairy situations, like go to Mars when there was a legitimate suspicion of a Mobile Armor being there, and judging by the PV, he's letting Iok go now, too, against experienced, desperate and cornered mercenaries. I really think that Rustal's position on Iok is "if he can survive and learn the lesson, good; if no, well, that's as far as he goes then, let's move on".

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by tdx

I'd say Rustal doesn't mind preserving some 7 stars heirs, especially when they're like putty in his hands like Iok is, but I think he doesn't exactly mind being the only 7 star left and becoming the supreme leader of GH. After all, Rustal let Iok go into some potentially hairy situations, like go to Mars when there was a legitimate suspicion of a Mobile Armor being there, and judging by the PV, he's letting Iok go now, too, against experienced, desperate and cornered mercenaries. I really think that Rustal's position on Iok is "if he can survive and learn the lesson, good; if no, well, that's as far as he goes then, let's move on".

And with Julietta basically forced on the sidelines, the only one left aside from Iok that is considered a "threat" is Gaelio and we know he wants the satisfaction of killing both Mika and McGillis

[tdx]

Originally Posted by asaqe

And with Julietta basically forced on the sidelines, the only one left aside from Iok that is considered a "threat" is Gaelio and we know he wants the satisfaction of killing both Mika and McGillis

I actually wonder what exactly Gaelio wants. To bring McGillis down, yes, but what after that? He doesn't seem to care much about Tekkadan anymore (probably thinks they're just being played by McGillis?), and we have yet to get anything concrete about what he thinks of Rustal and what he plans to do after his revenge. Moreover, he looked upset and even angry in the PV, which maybe, just maybe, give hope, however fleeting.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by tdx

I actually wonder what exactly Gaelio wants. To bring McGillis down, yes, but what after that? He doesn't seem to care much about Tekkadan anymore (probably thinks they're just being played by McGillis?), and we have yet to get anything concrete about what he thinks of Rustal and what he plans to do after his revenge. Moreover, he looked upset and even angry in the PV, which maybe, just maybe, give hope, however fleeting.

That's my biggest issue with Gaelio. He doesn't seem to have any plans for after dealing with McGillis. McGillis has basically been at the crux of his thoughts for more than a year. Kind of interesting as it gives an in context example of one of the life stories you learn growing up about forgiveness, and how you stew and stew for years about what someone did to you, and yet the person you're angry at is basically living their lives, giving the event little to no thought.

I'm sure McGillis thought about about Gaelio at least a couple times during that time, but his mind was constantly on his many other plans and duties. Gali? Every thought and action he did was influenced by McGillis in some way.

So, what happens after Macky is gone? Gaelio has not once really talked about his family, has gone to see to them even after announcing himself. Has not really spared much in terms of talking about his plans for the future. Nothing about his position in Gjallarhorn or being the heir of his family.

My thing is, if you don't like Macky's plan in getting rid of corruption enough to fight to the death to stop him, then what's YOUR plan in how to deal with it? What are YOU going to do? It doesn't help that you are furthering said corruption by advancing Rustal's schemes. What are you going to do after this Gaelio?

[haseo0408]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

That's my biggest issue with Gaelio. He doesn't seem to have any plans for after dealing with McGillis. McGillis has basically been at the crux of his thoughts for more than a year. Kind of interesting as it gives an in context example of one of the life stories you learn growing up about forgiveness, and how you stew and stew for years about what someone did to you, and yet the person you're angry at is basically living their lives, giving the event little to no thought.

I'm sure McGillis thought about about Gaelio at least a couple times during that time, but his mind was constantly on his many other plans and duties. Gali? Every thought and action he did was influenced by McGillis in some way.

So, what happens after Macky is gone? Gaelio has not once really talked about his family, has gone to see to them even after announcing himself. Has not really spared much in terms of talking about his plans for the future. Nothing about his position in Gjallarhorn or being the heir of his family.

My thing is, if you don't like Macky's plan in getting rid of corruption enough to fight to the death to stop him, then what's YOUR plan in how to deal with it? What are YOU going to do? It doesn't help that you are furthering said corruption by advancing Rustal's schemes. What are you going to do after this Gaelio?

Gaelio is what I call a true idiot, he sees that the world is a horrible place to live unless you´re born in the right family or have a lot of money, you have no right to dream and all kinds of crime and slavery are law of the land, the knows that and he knows that his organization cares about the people, just power. What does this idiot do? He takes the revenge before reason path just becuase his crazy subordinate (Eins) saved him once!. Rustal found himself one hell of a puppet in Gaelio.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by haseo0408

Gaelio is what I call a true idiot, he sees that the world is a horrible place to live unless you´re born in the right family or have a lot of money, you have no right to dream and all kinds of crime and slavery are law of the land, the knows that and he knows that his organization cares about the people, just power. What does this idiot do? He takes the revenge before reason path just becuase his crazy subordinate (Eins) saved him once!. Rustal found himself one hell of a puppet in Gaelio.

As far as Gaelio's concerned though, he still doesn't have a full view on the worlds state just yet, despite his development with Eins, and growth during the timeskip (Isurugi blatantly pointed that out before he died).

He knows what Gjarllerhorn is, and that its corrupt, HOWEVER he has not seen the true depth of the corruption that we, the omnipresent audience, has seen displayed in the Arianhod fleet and other branches of the Gjallerhorn command. From what Gaelio, emphasis on the character himself, has seen, McGillis is the bigger threat than the current corruption.

Gaelio views Macky as a hypocrite, not only being the corruption he preached against in the time that he lied to/betrayed him, but also a murderer, a mastermind behind a plot to seize the top of Gjallerhorn. People seem to forget that its not just Gjallerhorn in the universe, there are 4 economically powerful Earth blocks (who are more or less the economy of the entire Earth sphere and Gjallerhorn itself) that Gjallerhorn oversee and settle disputes between. If someone like McGillis would to take over GJallerhorn, it would be quite possible that he could seize control of the entire Earth with nobody to stop him (as the economic blocks are nowhere near as strong in their military). Siding with Rustal is merely siding with the only force that has the power capable of stopping him.


Its not as much about revenge as it is about stopping a crazy power hungry mastermind that could potentially topple and seize control of the whole world while throwing everything completely out of whack.

Dudes still a good guy at heart with good intentions, but he's still very naive in many ways. He's a pawn yes, but he's done so willingly because he thinks its a sacrifice he has to make for what he considers the greater good

If anything I want Gaelio to be one of the last ones standing on the Glallerhorn side when the dust settles, out of the Seven Stars, he has the most potential to put things back on course properly



McGillis, Rustal and Iok has got to go though, I think the majority watching the show can agree on that much at least

[haseo0408]

Originally Posted by Skye629

As far as Gaelio's concerned though, he still doesn't have a full view on the worlds state just yet, despite his development with Eins, and growth during the timeskip (Isurugi blatantly pointed that out before he died).

He knows what Gjarllerhorn is, and that its corrupt, HOWEVER he has not seen the true depth of the corruption that we, the omnipresent audience, has seen displayed in the Arianhod fleet and other branches of the Gjallerhorn command. From what Gaelio, emphasis on the character himself, has seen, McGillis is the bigger threat than the current corruption.

Gaelio views Macky as a hypocrite, not only being the corruption he preached against in the time that he lied to/betrayed him, but also a murderer, a mastermind behind a plot to seize the top of Gjallerhorn. People seem to forget that its not just Gjallerhorn in the universe, there are 4 economically powerful Earth blocks (who are more or less the economy of the entire Earth sphere and Gjallerhorn itself) that Gjallerhorn oversee and settle disputes between. If someone like McGillis would to take over GJallerhorn, it would be quite possible that he could seize control of the entire Earth with nobody to stop him (as the economic blocks are nowhere near as strong in their military). Siding with Rustal is merely siding with the only force that has the power capable of stopping him.


Its not as much about revenge as it is about stopping a crazy power hungry mastermind that could potentially topple and seize control of the whole world while throwing everything completely out of whack.

Dudes still a good guy at heart with good intentions, but he's still very naive in many ways. He's a pawn yes, but he's done so willingly because he thinks its a sacrifice he has to make for what he considers the greater good

If anything I want Gaelio to be one of the last ones standing on the Glallerhorn side when the dust settles, out of the Seven Stars, he has the most potential to put things back on course properly



McGillis, Rustal and Iok has got to go though, I think the majority watching the show can agree on that much at least

I see your point, it´s easy to forget that as the audince we know much more thatn the characters. That being said, I sure hope you are right and someone does something to improve that hellish world at the end, my bet was originally with MacGuillis but his confidence in the face of that massive army has me worried, as I said a few pages ago I think he might unleashed something better be left alone.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Skye629

If anything I want Gaelio to be one of the last ones standing on the Glallerhorn side when the dust settles, out of the Seven Stars, he has the most potential to put things back on course properly



McGillis, Rustal and Iok has got to go though, I think the majority watching the show can agree on that much at least

It really all depends on how it goes. If Gaelio decides to continue with Rustal on this path, I honestly can't really get behind him anymore. Unless he decides to take the first step and be more than simply a follower, then he's just as bad as Iok. I want him to decide something on his own, not simply just being reactionary to others. If he can't be that, he might as well just die along with the last person he decide to follow, as it seems that following is all that he knows how to do.

I honestly would be happy with just wiping out the Seven Stars entirely, including Gaelio. That whole power structure should go. I don't think I can trust Gaelio to have a good enough plan to restructure things, rather than just setting up the same system again, simply because it's familiar, and it "works".

And, I kind of want Macky to live, if just to stick it to Iznario's smug face. Could he even visit him in the mountains and shoot him dead too? Is that piece of filth's death too much to ask? I mean, he looks way too comfortable in that mountain mansion.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by haseo0408

Gaelio is what I call a true idiot, he sees that the world is a horrible place to live unless you´re born in the right family or have a lot of money, you have no right to dream and all kinds of crime and slavery are law of the land, the knows that and he knows that his organization cares about the people, just power. What does this idiot do? He takes the revenge before reason path just becuase his crazy subordinate (Eins) saved him once!. Rustal found himself one hell of a puppet in Gaelio.

It's not really revenge before reason. He may sympathize with the poor and downtrodden as long as he doesn't actually have to do something, but as someone born to the right family, his stake in the system is completely different. The statu quo is great to him. And Macky wasn't, ultimately.

You could call it selfish. I wish he was more self-aware about the fact he only cares about himself and his personal friends. But not many people would be OK with turning the other cheek after what McGillis did to him, even for a supposed greater good.

[vic-vic]

There is also the fact that Gerlio simply couldn't work for McGillis after blonde tries to screw Bauduin's heir. Once he reveal his true identy. Mackie would immideatelly try to kill him to keep him shut. So, in addition to his other goals, Gali NEEDs to get rid of McGilis if he just wants to stay alive.

[DMurphy]

It's also worth remembering that what McGillis did to Ein was irredeemably monstrous.

Setting Carta up to die: Bad. Trying to kill Gaelio: Bad. What McGillis did to Ein, someone who Gaelio was close to? Really actually pretty unspeakable.

[asaqe]

And didnt Gaelio asked for Ein to get surgery and the option is AV implants. All McGillis was upsell it to Gaelio who could turn around and say no.

Another concern is Almiria and Rustal picking up the pieces

I mean does Rustal wven have a wife? Never do we see him with a spouse or a child amd now he has mostly won. He is going to ask Gallus to marry off Almiria to him

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by asaqe

And didnt Gaelio asked for Ein to get surgery and the option is AV implants. All McGillis was upsell it to Gaelio who could turn around and say no.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. No.

Gaelio wanted Ein's life to be saved. McGillis took advantage of his desperation and persuaded him around to AV surgery -- what McGillis deliberately left out was that Ein was going to have most of his limbs removed and stuck in a tank inside a giant mobile suit.

You can't put the blame on Gaelio for that. Apart from the fact that he wasn't thinking straight, he thought he was agreeing to 'regular Ein but he's got an AV whisker sticking out of his neck' not 'monstrosity who's only fit for killing.'

Ein got noticeably crazier after McGillis did that, too, and honestly, who can blame him.

And then, just to make things worse, McGillis reveals to Gaelio that he planned to scapegoat Ein as a monster all along. Again, you can't blame Gaelio for that.

Gaelio is being short-sighted (and also super-hypocritical right now), but honestly, McGillis deserves every iota of moral revulsion that Gaelio has for him.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by DMurphy

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no. No.

Gaelio wanted Ein's life to be saved. McGillis took advantage of his desperation and persuaded him around to AV surgery -- what McGillis deliberately left out was that Ein was going to have most of his limbs removed and stuck in a tank inside a giant mobile suit.

You can't put the blame on Gaelio for that. Apart from the fact that he wasn't thinking straight, he thought he was agreeing to 'regular Ein but he's got an AV whisker sticking out of his neck' not 'monstrosity who's only fit for killing.'

Ein got noticeably crazier after McGillis did that, too, and honestly, who can blame him.

And then, just to make things worse, McGillis reveals to Gaelio that he planned to scapegoat Ein as a monster all along. Again, you can't blame Gaelio for that.

Gaelio is being short-sighted (and also super-hypocritical right now), but honestly, McGillis deserves every iota of moral revulsion that Gaelio has for him.

I agree that McGillis taking advantage of Ein's situation was horrible and a bad thing to do, but I also agree with asage that some of the blame has to go to Gaelio as well. Also, that Ein himself was getting on the side of insane obsession even before he got totaled. So, while the AV did probably push him fully into insane territory, I think he was getting there on his own. His monologues about "punishing the children" began before he got AV.

First there was the fact that Ein wanted AV before all this got started, but Gaelio kept saying he shouldn't. So the idea was already in Gali's head. Then the doctors told him that might be the only way to save Ein's life. So, further compounding the idea in his head even if he was adamant to say no.

But by then, there was no other way unless he just wanted Ein to stay on life support. My the time McGillis was there to manipulate him, the idea had already been swimming in Gaelio's head.

McGillis pushed the idea further, deciding to take advantage of the situation. Ever pragmatic, to him it was an easy decision. Ein was going to die anyway unless he got AV, might as well try the new experimental adult version. And at least then, he could get some information from it. And it wasn't like he had planned to use Ein all along. It was Ein's own decision to go turn himself into a human shield for the second time in a row. Macky didn't put him on that spot. McGillis took advantage of the aftermath of a bad situation. (it does make me wonder what his plan was originally before Ein went and got impaled though?)

So he manipulated Gaelio by pushing the AV. And even in this, he basically just told Gaelio the truth about Gjallarhorn. That it got it's start in using AV and that mechanical modifications were not always taboo. Yet, despite this, it WAS Gaelio's decision in the end. If he was not always such a weak follower, he might have stuck to his guns, or like most people he could have researched it himself, asked some questions about what was going on in the procedure, all of that, before making the decision. I'm going to guess he didn't do that. But still it was his decision and he made it.
You could say he totally trusted Macky's word, but considering the huge decision over a man's life that he was making, I think he could have done some research on his own. I love my own best friend, but I still take time to research any info she tells me that I might want to utilize for making my own decisions.

The car salesman can badger and psuedo-manipulate you all he wants into buying a cool car that turns out to be a clunker. But in the end, it is your decision to make in buying it.
The serpent can tell Adam all he wants that the fruit of the tree will make him like God, but the man made the choice in eating it.

And like in both those examples, the person who made the choice has to live with the consequences, and they are also at fault, no matter the manipulations of another or that the thing they thought they agreed to, didn't turn out the way they thought.

I think the way Ein turned out was a mixture of both the AV and the fact that he was practically bifurcated in the fight. By the time Gali made up his mind, his limbs probably couldn't be saved, and when you have people like that red-head mechanic who like to do their work, they thought their answer to the problem was "brilliant". Put a "waterbowl" life support system connecting organic to non-organic and have it all threaded together using the AV system.

McGillis is a lot of things, but I don't think an engineer is one of them. So, I don't think he told them to put him in the permanent attached state he was in, if simply because that wouldn't help him as he didn't want to be in such a state himself. But of course doctors and mechanics were given the decision to save his life at any cost, and they did.

So, long story short. The blame lies with McGillis who manipulated the situation in his favor and used Ein for his own goals, as well as Gaelio who in the end, made the final decision.

Ein's craziness is a result of his own obsession that he couldn't let go of, even before getting AV. AV affects the brain in all cases, so I think that even if it had been the alleyway Mars version, Ein would have still gone as insane.

[Rising Dragon]

Irene has the right of it. For all of McGillis suggesting the usage of the Alaya-Vijnana System on Ein, he did indeed leave the choice to Gaelio. He also simply told him straight out what the truth behind that system was. And Ein would've died anyway without it... never mind the fact that Ein was already considering having it done, much like Kudelia considered it. Ein was already going off the deep end, and let's not forget that he was overjoyed at having underwent the procedure. You can't hold that entirely to McGillis.