Code Geass R2 - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[Magin]

I'm personally hoping Kallen gets killed (we've had one character death, so now I can tolerate a few more this season), though I'm hoping it would be due to Rolo's brother complex. I can see Suzaku killing her, if the right buttons are pressed... however, that would make the hatred of Suzaku rise to unimaginable levels, and we already have enough bashing as it is on him

and anyone else think that if it weren't for the story's plot armor (among other factors) that Lelouch's death flag would now be raised?

[morbosfist]

Kallen die? Nooooooo, It would suck if she dies. Though it may just be me rooting for Kallen X Lulu, she seems too important a character to kill.

Originally Posted by ApostleOfGod

So C.C. is Marianne's kid? Man, these plot twists are madd...

No, C.C. is hundreds of years old. If anything, it's the other way around.

[ZolfKimbley.BG]

Okay, I watched the episode.... and I'm kinda shocked that Lelouch acted so suddenly. That whole organisation was destroyed in a matter of moments, no one was spared... Recently, the anime's been shocking me quite a bit. So many events happening so quickly: The Black Knights ally with the Chinese Federation, Jeremiah joins Lelouch, Shirley dies, the Geass order is destroyed...

I'm not surprised that Rolo is Shirley's actually murderer. It was obvious since the last time we saw him using his Geass in ep.13 and it would have been too stupid and cliche if someone else but Rolo had killed her.

I was surprised that this whole Order was like an underground city. I mean, there were homes and buildings and people lived there with their families (or so it seemed). Those people must have been busy with their research for years.

Alright, I'll get to the more important point: everyone seems to be scheming behind each other's back; Lelouch plans on killing Rolo as a revenge for killing Shirley, Oghi and Villeta are acting really weird and I'm not sure who they are loyal to anymore (especially in Villeta's case).

Second: I'm starting to see both Lelouch and Suzaku in a whole different light. I've never thought that Lelouch would act so furiously and have that order destroyed, nor have I imagined Suzaku saying something like 'The goal justifies the means'.

Third: Shirley is dead! I still can't believe it! I guess that's one potential girlfriend for Lelouch down, now there's only Kallen and C.C. left. I was hoping that she might become a more important character in the future episodes, but I guess it just... wasn't meant to be.

Alright, in overall, the episode was great. I love it. I can't help it.

[orangejuicetang]

If Kallen dies, it will be near the end of the season. Same as with any of the other main characters which are Lelouch, Suzuku, and C.C. If they die, they will die near the end.

[peachiees]

Originally Posted by ApostleOfGod

So C.C. is Marianne's kid? Man, these plot twists are madd...

Where did you catch that? There's no way that could be true taking into consideration of how long C.C has lived. But putting that point aside (first post
), I've got to say that was a kick ass episode. My mouth was literally opened the whole time out of awe. It brings up so many questions though. What is Marianne's ultimate role? As stated in some earlier posts, the parallels between Lelouch/Rolo/Shirley and Charles/V.V./Marainne (taking into account the content of the episode) seem to suggest that Charles did care, to a degree, for Marainne and that V.V. probably had a big role in her murder. This brings up the question of the events that actually happened on the day she was murdered. Perhaps she had something to do with the pact (perhaps an interference of sorts) or maybe even extending to Lelouch/Nanally (since they weren't evacuated even though she knew of the attack). This would bring up the point of V.V. saying that Lelouch is a "cursed prince" and maybe it was even foreshadowed back in R1 when Suzaku said that his existence was a mistake. Maybe Marianne was geassed into lowering the security and keeping her children at the palace that day.

On another note, I think Rolo's end will probably be a result of his heart condition and I think Suzaku's way of finding out if Lelouch is Zero or not is pointless.

Sorry so long

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

I LOVE THIS EPISODE!!!

So Lelouch didn't even know about C.C.'s wish yet? Whoa =_='

And what's with the one shot preview for the next episode >_<+

[JesseJamesRocket]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

For those of you who are still supporting Suzaku please come to your senses!

Season one he said to Lelouch after Lelouch saved his punk ass from the Britannias who were going to execute him that he would not join him because his methods were wrong. He said something to the tune of "the outcome doesn't matter if the methods are wrong."

Well guess what he said in this episode? "To prevent more tragedies, I cannot let the methods hold me back." He has done a total 180 and no longer cares about the methods he uses, as long as he gets Lelouch in the end. This is the first episode where Suzaku's actions had clearly wrong and contrary to what he had said earlier, that is why everyone is bringing it up.

Yep, Suzaku has completely sold out, and the only thing he is really managing to do amidst his ever growing irrelevance is to become more annoying and unlikeable to me.

[Methuselah]

Meh, if C.C. turns out to be Marrine's child, then boy what a sibling kiss Lelouch and C.C. had. XD

[Tolle Erik Koenig]

Originally Posted by Methuselah

Meh, if C.C. turns out to be Marrine's child, then boy what a sibling kiss Lelouch and C.C. had. XD

Oh man. How convoulted this will get.

[kk2extreme]

idk but vv totally looks like a chick

[calvinguy]

Lelouch is evil and that is exactly what I like about code geass, this show wouldn't be as popular if he was just a heroic moral protagonist like in most shows. Lelouch himself admits that he must become evil to overcome evil, on a moral standpoint this is obviously wrong but who cares, its more interesting this way.

Suzaku on the other hand has become exactly like Lelouch, he doesn't care anymore, he just wants to get revenge even if it means forcing someone else on drugs.

People shouldn't be arguing who's right and who's wrong because both their actions are morally wrong.

However I choose to support Lelouch becuase he is more easy to sympathize with and of course because he is the main character. Are his actions always right? No, but it doesn't matter because his character isn't meant to be like that and thank god for that because thats what makes the series good.

[JesseJamesRocket]

Originally Posted by calvinguy

Lelouch is evil and that is exactly what I like about code geass, this show wouldn't be as popular if he was just a heroic moral protagonist like in most shows. Lelouch himself admits that he must become evil to overcome evil, on a moral standpoint this is obviously wrong but who cares, its more interesting this way.

Suzaku on the other hand has become exactly like Lelouch, he doesn't care anymore, he just wants to get revenge even if it means forcing someone else on drugs.

People shouldn't be arguing who's right and who's wrong because both their actions are morally wrong.

However I choose to support Lelouch becuase he is more easy to sympathize with and of course because he is the main character. Are his actions always right? No, but it doesn't matter because his character isn't meant to be like that and thank god for that because thats what makes the series good.

I totally agree. This is how I view the series as well. And of course, it is a reason why I like the Rolo character, and continue to even after recent episodes. If anyone in this series deserves the B.S. to end and to have a decent and fulfilling life, it's him. On a side note, did Rolo kill those kids? They didn't really show it. I almost think that he didn't.

[edf91]

Originally Posted by JesseJamesRocket

Yep, Suzaku has completely sold out, and the only thing he is really managing to do amidst his ever growing irrelevance is to become more annoying and unlikeable to me.

So does Lulu and yet people here still supported him - to me, both Lulu and Suzaku are basically the same - they share the same goals, but they just used different methods of getting it done. Lulu pride himself on his ability to separate his emotion from his goal, but from what we have seen in this episode, he basically throw it out the window because Shirley was killed. Not only he is doing an operation that the most "loyal" team is questioning (It's the Zero team that carry out the operation, which is supposed to be lead by Kallen and consider Zero's own bodyguards), he is rushing into things without taking a look around (if Diehardt can tell Ougi is behaving weird, he should've notice it too from Viletta) - he is creating problems for himself in the grand plan on overthrowing Britainia.

If Suzaku is "selling out," then what do we call Lulu? He was using Suzaku's compassion for Japanese when he call Suzaku's buff on whether he will kill the million of peple that disguish themselves as Zero? If Suzaku is really the "bastard" that almost everyone seems to think he is, he would've just let the military do its thing and he will probably get a medal for doing it. If he really did consider Suzaku his friend, how come he never did explain the whole situation with Suzaku regarding Euphie's death? Suzaku, for better or worse, is Euphie's lover, not to mention his best friend, you would think that would warrant at least an explanation, but nope - Lulu just decide to "eat it" and be the bad guy, somehow thinking it is better.

Suzaku is pretty passive in this series - and the only reason he even think about doing something with Kallen is because he thought Lulu killed Shirley - to him, killing your friend is a big "no no".

I understand how some people feel because we are mostly seeing the story from Lulu's point of view, so it's logical to assume anybody's else action that went against Lulu is wrong.

I think this series is getting interesting because both sides (Lulu and Suzaku) are doing things for the wrong reasons, so it really makes you wonder what is in store for them at the end, as I don't think either one of them can live with the aftermath of this whole thing.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

C.C isn't Marriane's child, V.V was talking about Lelouch.

Good episode though, I liked the back-story there. Staring to feel a bit for Charles' motives to. Suzaku's an idiot who's run out of options if he's going to Refrain Karren. So looks like Cornelia will be with Lelouch in an episode or so then. That Door of Twilight is one crazy contraption, they must all be linked in some way to the Sword. Next episode looks like it'll be a trip-fest.

[Kenu]

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

C.C isn't Marriane's child, V.V was talking about Lelouch.

Good episode though, I liked the back-story there. Staring to feel a bit for Charles' motives to. Suzaku's an idiot who's run out of options if he's going to Refrain Karren. So looks like Cornelia will be with Lelouch in an episode or so then. That Door of Twilight is one crazy contraption, they must all be linked in some way to the Sword. Next episode looks like it'll be a trip-fest.

Suzaku is really clutching at straws for Euphie's revenge.


I have not watched such a good series as Code Geass in a long time. This episode was no exception to the heights that anime can reach.

Every main character seems stretched and heading towards a fate they cannot control.

[Major1138]

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."

I think at this point, the above could apply just as much to Suzaku as it does to Lelouch. Neither of them are really all that much better than that which they purport to hate. Suzkau appears to be willing to use torture to achieve his goals (a stark contrast to his earlier belief that "good" ends achieved through "bad" means are tainted) and I don't think it was ever all that controversial to say Lelouch/Zero was very much an "ends justifies the means" kind of guy.

Although there appears to be much outrage at Suzaku's apparent willingness to cross the line to get what he wants (and perhaps rightly so), knowing what show I'm watching, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he has something else in mind other than the obvious "inject Kallen with Refrain to make her tell him who Zero is". If there's one thing Code Geass does, it's what I call "swerve cliffhangers" - for instance, back in episode 2, the very last shot is of Rolo about bust out his Geass on Xingke. The obvious follow up is that he does, and all hell breaks loose. But what really happens? He gets dissuaded by a conveniently timed phone call from Lelouch. So I wouldn't be too surprised if Suzaku's plan is something else, although I can't think of one that doesn't result in a complete reversal of his previously stated philosophies.

One thing I thought hilarious was how Lelouch tricked V.V. with the mock-up of his room at Ashford. I sort of expected the whole "I'm keeping you on the line to trace your location" thing, but I didn't quite expect him to have set up a fake room. I must admit I chuckled when the walls fell away and you could see the Jeremiah and Rolo plus the three Knightmare frames.

[Sinestra]

For some reason i did not like this episode as much as i had anticipated. A couple of things were made known like Shirley's death which i still think was unnecessary. But we know know who did it and yes it was that little shit Rolo. WTF she committed suicide by shooting herself in the stomach the fact that this outcome was so predictable made the episode lose points. Plus she was not even holding the gun when they found her no one shoots themselves in the stomach it retarded unless you want to die slowly and painfully and coughing on your own blood and bile sigh very unoriginal and very disappointing this is how they kill off one of my favorite characters. Well the end result was Zero was placed in a very difficult position and at the time i think he made the right choice. However it did not work out as planned. The scary part is that Rolo feels that he did a good thing but he also lied and said Shirley was Lelouche's enemy which was not true. This will not be the last time we see Lelouch want to make Rolo pay for his SINS im sure of it.

I was hoping the series would not do 1 thing but it did I was hoping we would not see Suzaku contradict himself anymore than he already has. The fact that he is ready to use Refrain on Kallen is unforgivable. He knows how much Kallen suffered due to her mothers addiction yet he is ready to do the same to her. For me this was the last straw for Suzaku in my eyes he can never be redeemed. I dont care if he saves the whole human race in the end i will never have respect for him again. Suzaku does not have the ability to see beyond what he is given. If he knew what Charles real plans were im sure he would start to have doubts yet he would continue on that path not because he wants too but because he can not many any other decision thats very sad.

The funny thing is Lelouch is innocent yet Suzaku is going to blame him it could have been anyone. Suzaku is just looking for a reason to blame Lelouch for something in the end both Lelouch and Suzaku missed Shirley's final words to them that alone is defacing her memory.

I wish I could have given it a 10 but i couldnt do it this time. I felt there was a lot of dialog that was not needed and parts where dialog would have helped the scene along were absent. Also, the animation is a couple of the fight scenes seemed really choppy. By no means did i hate this episode it was still good

The end with Cornelia, Jemimah and Lelouch taking V.V. made me smile. Cornelia is still the shit even with 1 arm. My question is where does she go from here? Lelouch facing down his old man was a mouth dropping.

7/10

[Jestersage]

After this episode, I come to hate Suzaku much less. He finally admit that he will no longer care whether the method is right or wrong, as long as he gets what he wants; a step up above the hypocrit he was.

On the other hand, Lelouch had basically rape the dog by killing man, woman, and children 9even though most are geass users and are enemy). As I stated before, this is basically what JSSDF did to NERV in Evangelion. If we proclaim Lorenz as an absolute bastard, what do we call Lelouch? Hero?

Still, I will be rooting for Lelouch, even if he actually become a Light clone in the end.

[JesseJamesRocket]

Originally Posted by edf91

So does Lulu and yet people here still supported him - to me, both Lulu and Suzaku are basically the same - they share the same goals, but they just used different methods of getting it done. Lulu pride himself on his ability to separate his emotion from his goal, but from what we have seen in this episode, he basically throw it out the window because Shirley was killed. Not only he is doing an operation that the most "loyal" team is questioning (It's the Zero team that carry out the operation, which is supposed to be lead by Kallen and consider Zero's own bodyguards), he is rushing into things without taking a look around (if Diehardt can tell Ougi is behaving weird, he should've notice it too from Viletta) - he is creating problems for himself in the grand plan on overthrowing Britainia.

If Suzaku is "selling out," then what do we call Lulu? He was using Suzaku's compassion for Japanese when he call Suzaku's buff on whether he will kill the million of peple that disguish themselves as Zero? If Suzaku is really the "bastard" that almost everyone seems to think he is, he would've just let the military do its thing and he will probably get a medal for doing it. If he really did consider Suzaku his friend, how come he never did explain the whole situation with Suzaku regarding Euphie's death? Suzaku, for better or worse, is Euphie's lover, not to mention his best friend, you would think that would warrant at least an explanation, but nope - Lulu just decide to "eat it" and be the bad guy, somehow thinking it is better.

Suzaku is pretty passive in this series - and the only reason he even think about doing something with Kallen is because he thought Lulu killed Shirley - to him, killing your friend is a big "no no".

I understand how some people feel because we are mostly seeing the story from Lulu's point of view, so it's logical to assume anybody's else action that went against Lulu is wrong.

I think this series is getting interesting because both sides (Lulu and Suzaku) are doing things for the wrong reasons, so it really makes you wonder what is in store for them at the end, as I don't think either one of them can live with the aftermath of this whole thing.

Lelouche sold out during Season 1 when Nunnally got kidnapped. However, since Nunally is his bottom line, the truth is, he's only sold out his followers, who mean nothing to him if Nunally is on the line. Lelouche decided early on to do anything and everything it takes, and we are reminded of that rather often.

While his latest decisions are indeed spurred on by Shirley's death, he is merely ridding himself of a major threat through whatever means necessary as usual. Suzaku in the other hand wouldn't join Lelouche to free his own country and people from the Empire solely due to his belief that it is wrong to fight using any means necessary. And what's he doing now? Kissing the (any means necessary) emperor's ass and using chemical drugs to make a prisoner of war give information behind Nunally's back. Let's not forget that due to her own history, this will likely scar Kallen for life.

So yeah, Lelouche is a bastard, but Lelouche is supposed to be a bastard, and Suzaku is supposed to only be against him because he refuses to be a bastard since they claim to want the same thing at base. Only now, Suzaku is a bastard as well, which really leaves no excuse for him to have the views he has. Unless he's hated his own country and people all along, and has done everything to obtain the power he now has that is which I doubt. He's just sold out and doesn't stand for anything anymore. The bottom line comparison between he and Lelouche shows Lelouche to have alot more credibility in the (relative) integrity tank. Suzaku has none. Not to mention that he's now grown into a second tier character. Just annoying imo.

[zalem]

Wonder why V.V. seems to hate Marianne so much. Hmmmm....

I think Suzaku is serious about using refrain on Kallen, but maybe Nunnally will intervene? I hope he doesn't get to use it on her. I can't imagine him just using it as a bluff. Kallen wouldn't talk even with such a threat(well I hope she wouldn't).