Spice and Wolf Light Novel Discussion

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Quite a while ago, I said this might compare to the saga of Aragorn and Arwen in LOTR. Beautiful love story.. but tragic. I hesitate to hope for an extremely happy ending (like even just them heading off on the road again) because asian literature just seems to love those 'bittersweet' and 'tragic' endings just to drive home that all things end. Transience is the only permamence.

Someone brought up the idea that Lawrence would help Horo have offspring who might be long-lived as well so she wouldn't be alone. That's one sort of 'bittersweet' ending; another is that she simply chooses to end her life when his ends. I can think of a few movies or stories that explore these sorts of things between 'immortals' and 'mayflies' but I don't want to spoil them for anyone.

I'd say the chance of an extremely happy ending is pretty much impossible, though I daresay I would have liked an ending such as them continuing on their journey and leaving it up to the reader to decide. I wish it didn't have to be tragic and bittersweet all the time since I do believe it is possible to have a realistically happy ending.

I would like something like that happening personally, but there is no way of telling what the chances are of that happening. Killing herself would be kind of depressing and I doubt Lawrence would want that, but there could be said to be something romantic about wanting to be with the one whom they love.

Immortality generally seems to be viewed as a curse and while I can't exactly say that they are constantly enforcing such a thing with Horo, they seem to be leaning to that. I wish there were more series like Baccano!, where a point seems to be made that immortals can be just as happy as mortals.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

I just hope that they don't run into that bear and have Horo get killed by the thing in the end. That would just be terribly sad.

[RampagingEvangelion]

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Spoiler for Spoiler:

I just hope that they don't run into that bear and have Horo get killed by the thing in the end. That would just be terribly sad.

Now that would be sad. I too am not expecting a 'Happy Happy all is good' ending. Perhaps if I had read all ten novels, I'd have better input to what the ending will be like.

[Vexx]

an ending such as them continuing on their journey and leaving it up to the reader to decide.

That's actually my most preferred ending I think -- riding off into the mist.

a point seems to be made that immortals can be just as happy as mortals

The problem is that an immortal forms a bond with a mortal. The immortal will have to watch the other grow old and die. After a few thousand years of such serial relationships, immortals might be inclined to naturally avoid attachments with mortals unless they think of them as pets or lesser beings. Imagine everyone you know except you only lives five years. You'd better find some mental mechanism for handling the ephemeral arrival and departure of such mayflies Using Buddhism or some other philosophy, one could continue by "living in the moment" -- as in, what is happening NOW is to be enjoyed and experienced. Horo seems to be trying that.. but still fears being alone at the end of the day.

In some way, immortal/mortal simply illuminates a problem we all have but many choose to ignore: the fact that any interaction you have with anyone might be the last. They walk out the door .... and the police call about a fatal accident or a heart attack or a crime death. Myself, I always try to keep that in mind before I walk away from someone I care about when we're angry at each other.

[Anh_Minh]

I don't know if them traveling for the rest of Lawrence's life would be that happy. I'd rather they settled down, start a shop which, thanks in part to Horo's wisdom, turns into a vast commercial empire...

[RampagingEvangelion]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't know if them traveling for the rest of Lawrence's life would be that happy. I'd rather they settled down, start a shop which, thanks in part to Horo's wisdom, turns into a vast commercial empire...

Lawrence and Horo create Wal-Mart?

[Anh_Minh]

I feel bad for the minimum wage workers, but they've got to keep Horo fed.

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by RampagingEvangelion

Now that would be sad. I too am not expecting a 'Happy Happy all is good' ending. Perhaps if I had read all ten novels, I'd have better input to what the ending will be like.

Yes, and it almost seems like it would the natural thing to happen. Given that this series seems to be the realistic type, as well as a feeling on my part that they may go for something quite depressing, the ending will be anything but of that nature.

Originally Posted by Vexx

That's actually my most preferred ending I think -- riding off into the mist.

The problem is that an immortal forms a bond with a mortal. The immortal will have to watch the other grow old and die. After a few thousand years of such serial relationships, immortals might be inclined to naturally avoid attachments with mortals unless they think of them as pets or lesser beings. Imagine everyone you know except you only lives five years. You'd better find some mental mechanism for handling the ephemeral arrival and departure of such mayflies Using Buddhism or some other philosophy, one could continue by "living in the moment" -- as in, what is happening NOW is to be enjoyed and experienced. Horo seems to be trying that.. but still fears being alone at the end of the day.

In some way, immortal/mortal simply illuminates a problem we all have but many choose to ignore: the fact that any interaction you have with anyone might be the last. They walk out the door .... and the police call about a fatal accident or a heart attack or a crime death. Myself, I always try to keep that in mind before I walk away from someone I care about when we're angry at each other.

Oh, yes. That sort of ending isn't always accepted since many times people would rather have it all spelled out for them, but I've come to like these kinds of endings since it lets one choose for themselves what may happen.

Yes, I know all that. It's one of those things that make me dislike when they deal with this sort of thing, though I tend to feel better if there is some clear means that can become immortal or mortal, though even then it needs to be done in a fashion that doesn't seem entirely unbelievable. Horo is not one of these cases though since she is naturally long lived nor is there any reasonable way that Lawrence could somehow make himself live for a long time.

I'm not particularly close to anyone, so I don't know how I would respond to that sort of thing personally. I do see what you mean. Horo does seem to be trying that, though I am not sure if she could ever fully embrace such a belief since deep down I feel that she would always have that want to not be alone. Happiness is ultimately fleeting for her I suppose, but then all happiness is.

I suppose that could be why I tend to find this sort of thing romantic: The idea of an immortal or something of that nature spending all those years and losing anyone they come to care about and then meeting someone who makes them want to keep living and all that, though there is nothing to stop Lawrence from dying in Horo's case nor would I say that Horo has developed any sort of death wish yet. I'm sorry, I'm probably not making any sense.

I suppose there is also the chance that Lawrence is not the first that Horo has developed a bond with of this level. I suppose that is even likely. Lawrence could just be one of many, though I feel rather sad about such a thought.

Edit: I rather like the idea of them settiling down with a shop myself as well, but that could fall into the area of being too happy.

Spoiler for Book spoiler:

In fact, that Lawrence actually considered this idea probably means it will never happen.

They'll probably part at the end and never see each other again I suppose.

[Vexx]

There's some implication that she was close to the lad who first enticed her to watch over the village harvest because he accepted her for what she was. No information on whether that meant anything physical or not.

I also like the "shop and family" ending idea ... even if Lawrence passes away that leaves her with family and it lets both of them achieve their dreams ... though she'd have to "re-invent" herself every few generations (like Lazurus Long in the Heinlein books about the Methuselahs).

I don't get the impression that Horo is necessarily "immortal"... just very long-lived. She obviously doesn't know either since she was cut off from her pack so long ago and such memory is murky.

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by Vexx

There's some implication that she was close to the lad who first enticed her to watch over the village harvest because he accepted her for what she was. No information on whether that meant anything physical or not.

I also like the "shop and family" ending idea ... even if Lawrence passes away that leaves her with family and it lets both of them achieve their dreams ... though she'd have to "re-invent" herself every few generations (like Lazurus Long in the Heinlein books about the Methuselahs).

I don't get the impression that Horo is necessarily "immortal"... just very long-lived. She obviously doesn't know either since she was cut off from her pack so long ago and such memory is murky.

Ah yes, I remember the bits about him, but it really wasn't anything that we could come to any conclusions with. Of course, that he was able to get her to stay at all says something. What does being physical have to do with a bond similar to the one she has with Lawrence though?

It's probably the best-case scenario, but for some reason I just don't feel the chances of it happening are very good despite wanting to. I am curious what a child (or children) of Lawrence and Horo would be like. Besides very cute. I'd be very happy with that sort of ending though.

Oh, I know. I think it may be just much easier to say "immortal" along with that she lives long enough that to a human that might seem like an eternity.

[Masanori Ota]

New novel is out, I uploaded the images from it in...various places yesterday and am doing it again today. You guys should be able to find it if you look for it.

[RampagingEvangelion]

Originally Posted by Masanori Ota

New novel is out, I uploaded the images from it in...various places yesterday and am doing it again today. You guys should be able to find it if you look for it.

I just so happened to be looking in.... various places.... and saw them. Awesome artwork.

[Dann of Thursday]

I wish I understood where these "various places" are, but I don't have much experience as to where one goes about finding these things. Is there anything depicted that seems rather interesting?

[Masanori Ota]

Yes.

Spoiler:

[Dann of Thursday]

Aww, that is so sweet. Thank you very much. And I suppose Horo might like this better since she is usually the one being hugged and such.

[RampagingEvangelion]

Originally Posted by Masanori Ota

Yes.

Spoiler:

When I first saw that pic, I immediately changed my background. I wish I knew what was going on in that pic.

[judgment26]

Ooh....that is very interesting....0.0

[RampagingEvangelion]

Originally Posted by judgment26

Ooh....that is very interesting....0.0

Yeah, I know. Maybe a 'happy' ending is too far-fetched... ah who am I kidding? I know it's not going to happen.

EDIT: Forgot to post this... another interesting one.

Spoiler for For Size:

I'm not sure if that's crying or screaming, or both... Whoever made Horo cry has it coming. Hehehe

[judgment26]

Oh, thanks for the pic. I haven't seen that one yet.

Once more, it's time for an update. The first section of chapter 5, Vol. 4 is up.

[RampagingEvangelion]

Originally Posted by judgment26

Oh, thanks for the pic. I haven't seen that one yet.

Once more, it's time for an update. The first section of chapter 5, Vol. 4 is up.

Heh, I guess it's good I stayed up until four in the morning, eh?

Thanks for the translations Judge. I really want to see what all this emotion in volume X is about. Only six more volumes, right?

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by RampagingEvangelion

Yeah, I know. Maybe a 'happy' ending is too far-fetched... ah who am I kidding? I know it's not going to happen.

EDIT: Forgot to post this... another interesting one.

Spoiler for For Size:

I'm not sure if that's crying or screaming, or both... Whoever made Horo cry has it coming. Hehehe

Where is this coming from all of a sudden? Granted, I'm inclined to agree with you, but did something happen to convince you beyond all doubt? I just hope the whole thing isn't too tragic.

Hmm, that pic is somewhat troubling. Does the one earlier happen after that or before it?