Byakugan, Sharingan & Rinnengan

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim

Mistaken point of fact. That would be a difference which would explain why Sharingan might not be able to identify water clones. Out of curiousity - how did they explain the ink clones actually doing damage if it was only genjutsu? I thought they were physical entities.

The ink clones didn't make any damage, the Rain ninjas launched kunais according to the clones's moves as if the clones were real to lure Naruto & co (and you )

[raikage]

Really, really random point - people say that Zabuza actually kill Kakashi, or really do much of anything with the Water Prison itself.

That may be true, and probably is. The Water Prison can't hurt Kakashi...but Haku can!

I almost forgot about that guy completely - a good strategy would have been to kill Kakashi via his water manipulation powers or a needle to the neck.

Not that this has anything to do with Sharingan or Byakugan, but just saying, is all...

[Last of the Uchiha]

Originally Posted by raikage

Really, really random point - people say that Zabuza actually kill Kakashi, or really do much of anything with the Water Prison itself.

That may be true, and probably is. The Water Prison can't hurt Kakashi...but Haku can!

I almost forgot about that guy completely - a good strategy would have been to kill Kakashi via his water manipulation powers or a needle to the neck.

Not that this has anything to do with Sharingan or Byakugan, but just saying, is all...

I though that we were talking about Zabuza vs Kakashi not Zabuza and Haku vs Kakashi.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by raikage

Really, really random point - people say that Zabuza actually kill Kakashi, or really do much of anything with the Water Prison itself.

That may be true, and probably is. The Water Prison can't hurt Kakashi...but Haku can!

I almost forgot about that guy completely - a good strategy would have been to kill Kakashi via his water manipulation powers or a needle to the neck.

Not that this has anything to do with Sharingan or Byakugan, but just saying, is all...

I'm not sure to get your point, you mean Haku using remotely the water inside the Water Prison against Kakashi while he was taken inside it since he could use jutsu with one hand only?

[raikage]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I'm not sure to get your point, you mean Haku using remotely the water inside the Water Prison against Kakashi while he was taken inside it since he could use jutsu with one hand only?

Not quite, I meant the first fight - which Haku was watching from a distance. He could easily have sniped Kakashi inside the water bubble. He was able to hide his presence easily enough from Team 7 (including Kakashi) while still being close enough to watch the fight.

The one-handed seals have nothing to do with this.
Last of the Uchiha, we seem to be talking about three or four different things at once in this thread. What's one more?

[Muad'Dib]

Originally Posted by raikage

Not quite, I meant the first fight - which Haku was watching from a distance. He could easily have sniped Kakashi inside the water bubble.

Or the guy with the really freaking big sword on his back could've done something...

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by raikage

Not quite, I meant the first fight - which Haku was watching from a distance. He could easily have sniped Kakashi inside the water bubble. He was able to hide his presence easily enough from Team 7 (including Kakashi) while still being close enough to watch the fight.

What's the point?
If it was so easy to pass through the Water Prison, Zabuza could have slashed the immobilized Kakashi without sweating and all would have been finished.

[Shadamehr]

Originally Posted by Hunter

What's the point?
If it was so easy to pass through the Water Prison, Zabuza could have slashed the immobilized Kakashi without sweating and all would have been finished.

I think he's saying Haku could have used his bloodline to make needles from the water inside the prison.

[raikage]

...heh...
There is no real point - just a little side diversion. Though, I suppose it's a point aimed at people who say that the Water Prison was useless b/c Zabuza couldn't do anything else to Kakashi...

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Shadamehr

I think he's saying Haku could have used his bloodline to make needles from the water inside the prison.

No, that what I thought too at first but Raikage said that that wasn't what he meant

Originally Posted by raikage

...heh...
There is no real point - just a little side diversion. Though, I suppose it's a point aimed at people who say that the Water Prison was useless b/c Zabuza couldn't do anything else to Kakashi...

Oh, but even if Zabuza couldn't do anything directly to Kakashi, this jutsu is far from useless.
If Zabuza had killed the client while Kakashi was incapacited, the mission would have been finished.
No client, no mission, no reason to fight anymore.

[raikage]

Originally Posted by Shadamehr

I think he's saying Haku could have used his bloodline to make needles from the water inside the prison.

Actually, I thought that too but then...

Can the water used in the jutsu be manipulated that easily? Since Zabuza's chakra is already flowing inside the water,
• Can Haku use that water to make needles?
• What would the effects of combining two different people's chakra in the same space be?

• If Haku were to make water needles from the lake, would the needles be able to penetrate the Water Prison?

It's a really good thought, but I'm not sure if it would be feasible or not.

[Shadamehr]

Hehe, water prison could be a pretty dirty jutsu if Haku used it.

[han_cho]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Neji has about the same age that Itachi had when he obliterated all the Uchiha.
Neji's strong, but he just doesn't play in the same class than Itachi.

They're about the same age, but remember that we don't know much about the Byakugan as the Sharingan.

It was also said that Byukugan can see through ninjutsus and genjutsus, so Sharingan probably won't work on a Byukugan user, even Mange. However, that fire technique might work but if he misses, then Itachi is screwed.

Sharingan can't copy bloodline limits, but it might not be able to copy high-level jutsus as well. Kakashi has never used Rasengan, even though he has probably seen the Fourth use it. It doesn't mean that he doesn't know how to use Rasengan, but why use chidori if you can use a more powerful technique that uses less or the same amount of chakra? Chidori, from the looks of it looks to be inefficient, with all that chakra flowing everywhere and not something that's concentrated.

And people say everything about which clan is the strongest. But remember that the Hyuga keep to themselves and keep everything secret, while the Uchiha were the police corps and were involved in everyday business and thus, can gain more of a feared reputation.

And as Jiraiya pointed out, it's not the number of jutsus you know that make you a great ninja, which is what Orochimaru believed. Sarutobi knows all the jutsus of Konoha, but that was not what made him great, and Sarutobi himself realized that. And does it say something that the Hyuga and the Uchiha were around for a long time, but none of the 5 hokages had a bloodline limitation (that we know so far) and that also says something.

My vote is undecided, but if at all, I would go with the byakugan. Sharingan vs. Byakugan, I vote for byakugan. Sharingan or Byakugan vs. normal people, then it would really depend, but I agree that the Sharingan is more versatile in this aspect.

We haven't seen Hyuga Neji use a lot of jutsus, but as a genius himself that graduated at the top of his class, he must know a lot of them, he just doesn't need to use it.

Off topic, but I'm hoping that one of the Akatsuki members would be a byakugan user, probably from the branch house that got fed up with the family and left, and the family removed all records of her (something a lot of families including mine) have done to outcasts.

[han_cho]

In the anime, Itachi said that the two would most likely be killed if they were to go up against Jaraiya, someone who does not have a bloodline ability.

[han_cho]

Originally Posted by raikage

Itachi (presumably) had the benefit of his clan training him.
Neji...did not.
Could Itachi have figured out how to use the clan secrets on his own? Even if he self-taught himself from a scroll, it's still more than Neji had.

13 y.o. Itachi is still stronger than 13 y.o. Neji, though. No question about that.

That is true, at 13, he was already the captain at ANBU.

[Nine Devil]

Originally Posted by han_cho

They're about the same age, but remember that we don't know much about the Byakugan as the Sharingan.

It was also said that Byukugan can see through ninjutsus and genjutsus,

Where did they say that anime episode/manga chapter? Only sharingan can read trough Tai/nin/genjutsu.

so Sharingan probably won't work on a Byukugan user, even Mange. However, that fire technique might work but if he misses, then Itachi is screwed.

Lol, so you say Itachi only has 2 jutsu to rely on?

[han_cho]

Frogzilla - Neji does have the moves to defend against jutsus, not to mention a strong taijutsu offense. And to whoever said Neji was slow, you are a dumbass. Neji has not shown his own speed, but he was the same guy who was playing Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammed Ali against Rock Lee in a flashback, granted both of them were not going at full speed.

But yeah, I agree with the people who say that Itachi is stronger than Neji. Itachi is one of a kind, even in the Sharingan family. Him being able to wipe out all other Sharingan users means he's a cut above EVERYONE, no matter what bloodline ability you may have. This reaffirms the position that Sharingan is not better than Byakugan, but Itachi has sure made good use of his abilities.

Back on my last post, watch episode 83 I think it was where Itachi plainly and calmly says that at best, they might be able to kill Jaraiya, but they'd both be killed.

[han_cho]

Originally Posted by Bloodstainsfade

I think Sharigan, becuase if you memorize approximately where the chakra points are, the Sharigan would let you see where they move from when they attack. Therefore, you have Sharigan, and byakugan... Not to mention, freakish veins popping out of your head, or fricking awesome red eyes... Not to mention you can make them spin around, imagine the fun to be had with your friends and that...

Chakra points is not something you can memorize, it's something you have to see. They're the size of needle points. Kakashi can't seem them, Itachi can't see them, not even Hinata can see them. They have to be exact. A surgeon can't go in with an approximation on a certain patient. A surgeon would know the approximation of all the body parts in terms of the general populace, but every person would be different.

[Nine Devil]

[QUOTE=han_cho]Frogzilla - Neji does have the moves to defend against jutsus, not to mention a strong taijutsu offense. And to whoever said Neji was slow, you are a dumbass. Neji has not shown his own speed, but he was the same guy who was playing Sugar Ray Robinson and Muhammed Ali against Rock Lee in a flashback, granted both of them were not going at full speed.

But yeah, I agree with the people who say that Itachi is stronger than Neji. Itachi is one of a kind, even in the Sharingan family. Him being able to wipe out all other Sharingan users means he's a cut above EVERYONE, no matter what bloodline ability you may have. This reaffirms the position that Sharingan is not better than Byakugan, but Itachi has sure made good use of his abilities.

Originally Posted by han_cho

Back on my last post, watch episode 83 I think it was where Itachi plainly and calmly says that at best, they might be able to kill Jaraiya, but they'd both be killed.

That is wrong, we still couldn't solve that one

ps. don't ask me why its wrong, do a search you will find threads about it.

[Ke0]

Originally Posted by Nine Devil

Where did they say that anime episode/manga chapter? Only sharingan can read trough Tai/nin/genjutsu.

Agreed........

Lol, so you say Itachi only has 2 jutsu to rely on?

So far...........yes, it's just like how you guys think Hizashi and Neji only have Kaiten and Hakke Roku Juu Yonshou in their jutsu arsenal

BTW How is it wrong if you don't know the correct anwser?