Fate/Zero - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Jimmy C]

Good thing that recorder is at the bottom of the Atlantic then.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Good thing that recorder is at the bottom of the Atlantic then.

Didn't the plane blew up rather close to the coast line? It shouldn't have sunk that deep, but cmiiw.

[brandon279]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

why her ability to land the plane should have been his first concern.

because if she is able, then he would have no need to blow the plane, Natai will call the MA once she land, they wil take care of the bees

because she is his partner, (mother).... so to not do so = bastard

[jeroz]

because even she is not confident in landing. Remember that through the whole time it's on auto pilot.

and MA will most likely to go for the simpler solution as well.

[Haak]

It's very unlikely the MA would even want to save Natalia, considering she's a Magus Killer the MA barely tolerates. Relying on the MA simply wouldn't work.

And the Church would probably kill her anyway because they're unlikely to take Natalia's word for it that she avoided being stung by the bees.

[Qilin]

It would probably be more productive to discuss why he did the things he did rather than discuss what Kiritsugu should have done.

Whatever the case, all the discussion his character his getting almost warrants its own thread.

[fertygo]

I'm sure even Natali would rather Kiritsugu himself that kill her than the church or the mages anyway.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by brandon279

because if she is able, then he would have no need to blow the plane, Natai will call the MA once she land, they wil take care of the bees

because she is his partner, (mother).... so to not do so = bastard

It did not matter whether or not she could land the plane. The bees and The Dead had to be destroyed before touch down and the only way of doing that was by blowing up the plane while it was still in the air. Kiritsugu was not wrong in what he did.

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by brandon279

because if she is able, then he would have no need to blow the plane, Natai will call the MA once she land, they wil take care of the bees

because she is his partner, (mother).... so to not do so = bastard

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

It did not matter whether or not she could land the plane. The bees and The Dead had to be destroyed before touch down.

That's what I'm saying. I said this already, that even if she landed, there was a chance the bees could escape with her, and Kiritsugu isn't the type of person to let that happen, hence landing the plane was not going to address his concern about saving everybody.

And really, I'd only find him a bastard if he didn't feel remorse for what he did; his breakdown was extremely cathartic and gratifying, since it was so tragic to see him be responsible for his own mother's death, so rather than hating him, I feel extreme pity for the guy. He's basically a prisoner, a complete slave to his very own self, even as it destroys him.

[jeroz]

Guys, this story is stupid. Why don't the characters have the plot armour? I want my obligatory happy ending. Who cares if it doesn't make sense as long as I say it can be done???

so yeah..facepalm-worthy indeed.

[Haak]

To be fair, no one is going to feel sympathetic to guy making a sacrifice if they don't think that sacrifice even needs to be made. It's just worth pointing out that the sacrifice had to be made.

[erneiz_hyde]

But of course, we could be cold about this because it's fiction and it has nothing to do with us. If our own life hangs in the balance, I doubt any of us would be willing to stay pragmatic and opt for self-survival instead.

[Grey]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

But of course, we could be cold about this because it's fiction and it has nothing to do with us. If our own life hangs in the balance, I doubt any of us would be willing to stay pragmatic and opt for self-survival instead.

That's not really related. The choice was never about self-survival. It was between someone you're close to, and the lives of many others.

Unless you meant choosing as if we were Natalia. Then I'd be fine with blowing up. Risking a zombie apocalypse in New York City would be crazy selfish.

[Haak]

I think he was talking about the perspective of the innocents of in New York. It is important, after all, to consider their opinions about whether they would like their lives risked.

[DragoZERO]

We are totally going in circles here. Thank god we are getting a new episode tomorrow, lol.

[Click This]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Didn't the plane blew up rather close to the coast line? It shouldn't have sunk that deep, but cmiiw.

Assuming the aircraft was landing at La Guardia(I think it was called Idlewald back them), or JFK, it would have taken them over the Long Island Sound and the Atlantic Coast, respectively. Very shallow waters in a disaster-sense. For example, they recovered almost all of TWA800(747 that exploded off Long Island after takeoff from JFK, disputed missile shootdown(Now, doesn't that sound similar to what we just watched?) in the Atlantic.

Not to mention Air France Flight 447, they recovered the CVR and black boxes from the middle of the Atlantic.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

We are totally going in circles here. Thank god we are getting a new episode tomorrow, lol.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by Click This

Assuming the aircraft was landing at La Guardia(I think it was called Idlewald back them), or JFK, it would have taken them over the Long Island Sound and the Atlantic Coast, respectively. Very shallow waters in a disaster-sense. For example, they recovered almost all of TWA800(747 that exploded off Long Island after takeoff from JFK, disputed missile shootdown(Now, doesn't that sound similar to what we just watched?) in the Atlantic.

Not to mention Air France Flight 447, they recovered the CVR and black boxes from the middle of the Atlantic.

Even if they got the blackbox what good would it do them?

[Click This]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

Even if they got the blackbox what good would it do them?

Black box would indeed be worthless as surface examination of the aircraft would have tell-tale signs of shootdown(assuming an FIM-92 Stinger hit the center wing tank, otherwise it would only cripple the jet), but the MA would be shitting their pants if the NTSB got their hands on the CVR. I only spoke about the black boxes to say those things are recoverable from deep beneath the ocean.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Grey

Unless you meant choosing as if we were Natalia. Then I'd be fine with blowing up. Risking a zombie apocalypse in New York City would be crazy selfish.

Please don't take offense for not taking you at your words. I highly doubt you'd actually be willing had it come to that.

And this is what I was talking about. We can be calm and discuss about it and claim about things like this, but pardon me if I think all this is really ephemeral and a party of masks, and that basic survival instinct would take over before any kind of ideology.

One should not feel ashamed for wanting to live though. Your own life comes first, then those close to you, then everyone else at the very end of the list. It is very human to think that way. One might call you selfish for wanting to be a sole survivor of an accident that dragged more life, but so could those who'd rather have that one life extinguished instead of theirs.