(L) Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate (Love, Election, and Chocolate)

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by Dorsai

Discussion not started with only VN adaptions... But even if you talk about only them if you want to prove anything you cant make just subjective list. You need to either make list wirth all of VN adaptations or use one of statistic tools (check sample etc)

1. It didn't start with them but someone frown the phrase that "at least not ion VN adaptations".
2. The list includes most non-otome and non-hentai VN adaptations. You could just check AniDB and see yourself
3. I can't judge about animes I didn't see so of cause I exclude them. Someone else could add them to the list so we could saw more proper statistics

Originally Posted by Dorsai

you cant count normal sister/brother relationship as osananajimi

1. We are not talking about normal relationships. The are talking about romance.
2. I said "could count" not "should" or "must"
3. For me sister is equal to osananajimi cause the case in relationships are the same. Protag and her know each other since childhood or for a long time which affect the relationship

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

We'll see if they would still continue with that letter, but it feels to me like they're just getting it out of the way, kinda like the whole Isara bullying scenes.

Still, I've been burned before...Twice... With half of the series left to go, I'm not ready to call anything definitive yet.

Without giving anything, everything will probably be used and maybe it will make sense later. The anime is combining things from every route so far to make a super route (like relentlessflame mentioned).
So that's why i am not counting Mifuyu out yet.

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

。1. We are not talking about normal relationships. The are talking about romance. 。2. I said "could count" not "should" or "must"。3. For me sister is equal to osananajimi cause the case in relationships are the same. Protag and her know each other since childhood or for a long time which affect the relationship

While some of their traits are similar, i don't treat sisters and childhood friends as the same archetype. In some VN's or eroge, you have both a sister (eiter a younger or older one) and a childhood friend in the story. (small example: Hareten, Hoshimemo and the recent Lovely Quest)
They don't have the same pupose for the story. The sister is more used to create an awkward/taboo relationship, while the childhood friend is more a natural type of relationship

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by hyl

Without giving anything, everything will probably be used and maybe it will make sense later. The anime is combining things from every route so far to make a super route (like relentlessflame mentioned).
So that's why i am not counting Mifuyu out yet.

I swear, this is going to be my last VN-eroge adaptation My weak heart can't take anymore of this

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by hyl

While some of their traits are similar, i don't treat sisters and childhood friends as the same archetype. In some VN's or eroge, you have both a sister (eiter a younger or older one) and a childhood friend in the story. (small example: Hareten, Hoshimemo and the recent Lovely Quest)
They don't have the same pupose for the story. Thje sister is more used to create an awkward/taboo relation, while the childhood friend is more a natural type of relationship

1. There are enough VN's there you have couple of osananajimis actually and what?
2. Yes you are right abiout purpose of adding a sister heroine. Bun, unfortunatly, there are a lot of cases there this fact don't mean much. The just got typical "they are not blood-related" event and all the drama ends(there even could be none of it). For example Hinata's route in Wind VN or Koharu's route in Hinatabokko.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I swear, this is going to be my last VN-eroge adaptation My weak heart can't take anymore of this

I promised this to myself couple of times already. But still watching them

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

1. There are enough VN's there you have couple of osananajimis actually and what?
2. Yes you are right abiout purpose of adding a sister heroine. Bun, unfortunatly, there are a lot of cases there this fact don't mean much. The just got typical "they are not blood-related" event and all the drama ends(there even could be none of it). For example Hinata's route in Wind VN or Koharu's route in Hinatabokko.

I was explaining why i think that there is a difference between the osananajima and the imouto/oneessan archetypes in eroge/VN's in general.
Both are however similar as in they are already close to the protagonist with less need of a romantic development than the regular classmate, senpai and kouhai.

1. I have no ide what you are implying with that question.
2. While i haven't seen the anime adaptations nor read the 2 (older) titles , but i have read many games that that the (non)blood-relationship issue is causing atleast some drama and in some games it's even the main focus of the story.

[Dorsai]

Ok i watched episode 7 and what we saw in begining is more clear now... For me its obviously that he want to be with Chisato, but he is afraid to make next step... Thats why he dont want to touch her... What important now its why he is afraid... They are few possible solutions-

-afraid to lost bond he have with her till now (like always in relationship with childhood friends);
- Chisato younger brother and chocolate case...

Anyway we will know answer soon...

Nachtwandler for you osananajima and imouto/oneessan are same, but for most people there are two different archetypes... Anyway since there are some differences thats why they are two different archetypes...

[Nachtwandler]

Originally Posted by hyl

1. I have no ide what you are implying with that question.
2. While i haven't seen the anime adaptations nor read the 2 (older) titles , but i have read many games that that the (non)blood-relationship issue is causing atleast some drama and in some games it's even the main focus of the story.

1. It was on you comment "it's common to have both sister and osananajimi in story"
2. Yeah there are enough cases than it plays large or at least descent role but there are enough than not. Sister heroine not always mean "incest drama" unfortunaty sio sometimes they are just the same as osananajimi

[Dorsai]

Nachtwandler because its only VN, fictional stories for boys- brother/sister relationship can evolve into love... But in begining of story usually bond and relations between them is different then bond and relations with osananajimi.

Anyway we should focus more on relations between characters in this anime then how it usually end in other ones...

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

OK. Someone here said that osananajimi never won in VN adaptations. Here's some list. But one note. For me personally sisters(blood-related or not) are the same as osananajimis so you could count them too

I didn't count onece I didn't watched, otome and once without main romance.

Legend:

Osananajimi won
Sister won
Osananajimi won in one of the arcs or you could count winner as one or there are some issues
No osananajimis in the story
Noone won/open ending/there's additional ending for osananajimi but still
Osananajimi lost

Spoiler for Title list:

11 Eyes - osananajimi won
Air - there's no osananajimis here
Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka - non blood-related sister
Amagami SS - all won once )))(there are one osananajimi and one that could count as her)
Clannad - yeah, Nagisa is not an osananajimi and kotomi didn't win but where are alternative ending for Kyo
D.C.: Da Capo - non blood-related sister
D.C.if: Da Capo if - osananajimi
D.C. II: Da Capo II - Koko got some in S1 but the final choice is unresolved(still beetween two cousins)
Ef - a Tale of Memories - osananajimi(Key) lost but got another guy
Ef - a Tale of Melodies - one osananajimi(Yuuko) won upon another(Nagi)
Fortune Arterial: Akai Yakusoku - yeah, osananajimi lost here but theres almoust no ending in anime
Green Green - there's no osananajimis here
H2O: Footprints in the Sand - there's no osananajimis here
Hoshizora e Kakaru Hashi - yeah, osananajimi(Madoka) lost here
Interlude - one osananajimi won upon two others(if you could count such ending)
Kanon - osananajimi won
Kimi ga Aruji de Shitsuji ga Ore de - there's no osananajimis here(only sister)
Kimi ga Nozomu Eien - osananajimi won
KimiKiss Pure Rouge - osananajimi won
Lamune - osananajimi won(if such ending counts)
Maji de Watashi ni Koi Shinasai!! - noone won
Mashiro-iro Symphony: The Color of Lovers - there's no osananajimis here
Myself; Yourself - osananajimi won(but in fact all heroins could be count as once)
Nanatsu-iro Drops - there's no osananajimis here
Oretachi ni Tsubasa wa Nai - all of them won, or noone, or sister(you could choose any of theese options)
Otome wa Boku ni Koishiteru - actually noone won
School Days - actually noone won
Shuffle! - yeah, osananajimi lost while in VN Kaede's ending were ending by default
Shukufuku no Campanella - they exclude romance from here
Soul Link - osananajimi(Nao) won. Sayaka could be compared to one too
Steins;Gate - you could count that osananajimi(Mayuri) lost but she had none romantic interest for Okabe in anime
Tayutama: Kiss on my Deity - yeah, osananajimi lost
Tears to Tiara - there's no osananajimis here
True Tears - osananajimi won(but it's not a VN adaptation, just formally one)
Tsuki wa Higashi ni Hi wa Nishi ni: Operation Sanctuary - osananajimi won
Tsuyokiss Cool x Sweet - noone won
Utawarerumono - there's no osananajimis here
White Album - osananajimi won(somehow)
Wind: A Breath of Heart - osananajimi won
Yoake Mae Yori Ruriiro na - osananajimi won(at least Fiina could count as one too)
Yosuga no Sora - all won(or sister won if you count Sora's arc as "true")
Yotsunoha - osananajimi won

I was thinking of more than VN adaptations, like manga, anime, light novels, etc included.

[Nachtwandler]

My list currently is about 680 anime titles. It's not a problem to make chart for all romances there but it would take some time. Or we could all make one just of curiosity.

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

My list currently is about 680 anime titles. It's not a problem to make chart for all romances there but it would take some time. Or we could all make one just of curiosity.

Not worth the effort to prove a point that we all already know about on internet forum.

[Dorsai]

Nachtwandler i check some of titles on your list and you need to remember about one thing:

there is difference between childhood friend/osananajimi who live with MC or close to him all her life and between them who met only in childhood and separate for 5,10 and more years... Bond between them is different... If girl spend her life separately and they grown up apart then she is childhood friend only in name. In reality she isnt any different from others girls who try to seduce MC... Yes girls like this wins often, only childhood friend who live with MC all her life rarely wins...

[sapper]

hey wait a minute i just remember an anime in which the childhood friend is in the lead of a harem: IFINITE STRATOS! YAY! lol ;p

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by sapper

hey wait a minute i just remember an anime in which the childhood friend is in the lead of a harem: IFINITE STRATOS! YAY! lol ;p

Now you just killed the atmosphere @_@.
Sooner girls will use bricks as dildos, than Ichika will get close to any girl.

[Dorsai]

First- there are two childhood friends in IS, second- they both was separated from him for few years and grow up apart, third- Ichika actually made some progress with Houki and even take initiative trying to kiss her... That was really suprising, because dumb guys like him make progress like this usually close to end of anime/LN, but thats just first season... And its big sing of his real feelings...

But thats not discussion for this thread...

[sapper]

@xaturas your just a buzzkill lol ;p

but anyways i'd thought id just throw that in there lol

[relentlessflame]

Basically, the rule for Visual Novel adaptations is that the character most central to the plot premise (and thus closest to the protagonist) will tend to be the final romantic partner, unless the show wants to make heartbreak a central element of the story (in which case a secondary character will usurp the first as closest to the protagonist, resulting in heartbreak both for that character and for the viewers that were cheering for her romance).

In this case, it was pretty telling to me that they chose a scriptwriter who is most famous for writing for writing romantic stories with lots of dramatic elements (ef, KgNE, the "famous" episodes of Shuffle, etc.). So, based on this and on what we've seen so far in the anime, my prediction is that the anime will go for a dramatic finale. I suspect that will include heartbreak as a central element. But, of course, as we already see, there are already a bunch of different angles they could play on, even if they do want to include this element. We'll see what they do...

[Master_Yoma]

Drunk on campus I wonder how Hazuki still have a job


Sigh it would be nice to see the Yaoi ending

[amoirsp]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Basically, the rule for Visual Novel adaptations is that the character most central to the plot premise (and thus closest to the protagonist) will tend to be the final romantic partner, unless the show wants to make heartbreak a central element of the story (in which case a secondary character will usurp the first as closest to the protagonist, resulting in heartbreak both for that character and for the viewers that were cheering for her romance).

In this case, it was pretty telling to me that they chose a scriptwriter who is most famous for writing for writing romantic stories with lots of dramatic elements (ef, KgNE, the "famous" episodes of Shuffle, etc.). So, based on this and on what we've seen so far in the anime, my prediction is that the anime will go for a dramatic finale. I suspect that will include heartbreak as a central element. But, of course, as we already see, there are already a bunch of different angles they could play on, even if they do want to include this element. We'll see what they do...

Spoiler:

I just feel like Koichoco has the capacity to do this and this is the only VN opportunity to do so without needing to do ridiculous deviations.

This is also the only case where I find a super route is designed to the description you created of it.
(Note: other VNs have done similar "super routes" but not in a mixed manner while keeping common retention. There's a big difference. Other cases either did "shotgun routes" (finish one route per episode) or "consecutive adventuring" (same thing as shotgun routes, but fleshed out).

However I don't recall any VN adaptation mixing elements in all the routes and keeping full retention. Lines from all the mixed scenes were pretty much identical! (This is much different than a "character focused" episode). Other than a couple of things we've seen literally spot on nearly word for word identical lines for these "mixed route" scenes.

Mashiro-iro did a similar "ok we don't know what route/girl will be picked nearly halfway through the series" but once a major route was picked and never got deviated, it was pretty clear. In Koichoco, there's a component of a major route, but it does not have this "lock on".

I actually find this unique to Koichoco but since it's a VN adaptation, it suffers from the same stigma and supposedly looks cliche as hell to majority of viewers.

I think what's ironic is that while the focus on the election keeps its core focus pretty well intact, it also weakens the strength of the other elements oddly enough.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by amoirsp

Spoiler:

However I don't recall any VN adaptation mixing elements in all the routes and keeping full retention. Lines from all the mixed scenes were pretty much identical! [...] I actually find this unique to Koichoco...

Spoiler for Comparison to the game story structure, no future spoilers:

I think this actually makes sense because, unlike many visual novels, this is a story that revolves around a single central event, that being the election. Most visual novels start with a common premise, but then veer widely into different territory in each route, so it's actually impossible to merge all the different routes together without massive rewrites or compromises. Of course, assuming they do pick a romantic ending, at that point they will veer on one path or another, but until then all that matters is just trying to keep juggling as many balls in the air at once. To do that they had to resequence a bunch of things, and they did make a number of alterations from the game, but it is trying to retain the maximum amount of plot elements as possible. This is one of the reasons I was cautiously optimistic about this anime's storytelling potential in the first place; it always seemed rather well-suited to anime, to me.

Honestly, their main enemy is just time, but that's always going to be the case with one-cour adaptations of ~40 hour games.