Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[whsie]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

I'm personally thinking that he may succeed in defeating the Yotsuba but will end up losing the ability to use magic as a result. And will just live a normal life after that.

I haven't seen the novel version yet (only the web), but unless they changed it, the very end (as in the last few paragraphs) of volume 8/Web 4 hinted that Tatsuya will not fight Yotsuba.

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

I'm personally thinking that he may succeed in defeating the Yotsuba but will end up losing the ability to use magic as a result. And will just live a normal life after that.

I hope not...Tatsuya literally doesn't know any other life. If he couldn't even continue on his work as Silver and/or bodyguarding Miyuki he would end up totally aimless.

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by nacer666

Volume 9 spoilers here:
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2203837141

It can't be! Lina's twin tails are actually drills! That completely ruins it!

Originally Posted by pampz21

well I guess they didnt mess up Lina's looks, but still cant see why she became one of the 2 beauties of first high tho....anyway looks like we'll gonna see some Katsuto x Mayumi moments Mayumi has her own harem after all.....!!!!

Spoiler for Web 5:

cant wait for Erika x Tatsuya moments...If I remember it correct theres gonna be alot of them hohohoho!

What moments? The only noticeable moment between them was when Erika was guessing aloud his family background and Tatsuya telling her to shut her trap with killing intent.

Originally Posted by Chimurry

He used again when 101st full assault Asian Alliance troops, they launch, shot or throw everything they got.

I think if he going full throttle will be like see the Apocalypse Rider or the Angel of Destruction (that's why his surnames includes: Demon/God, God of Destruction and Makeishura), they can try even nuke him, but still hardly will affect his advance, I am quite sure even full phalanx will even NOT slow his pace, I think that's Why Maya opted for name Miyuki as Heir, one shot 2 birds: Miyuki could classify as S Rank Magician, same as her aunt and Tats guarding Her its Retsu/Koichi Nightmare.

EDIT: Multi layer psions barrier vs Gram Dispersal will be at first an attrition battle, here Tats overwhelming Psions count could play the winning key, even sporty mock battle they can continue until one of them spend the last drop of Magic power, take its like Masada Battle (65 after Christ, Romans vs Israelis), one strongholds defense, other strong attacker.

If I recall correctly, Tatsuya's Decomposition could be used on magic itself. When he took out No Head Dragon, he used Decomposition to destroy the Generators' Wide Area Interference and Data Fortification. He is also capable of using Magic Dissolution, or Gram Dispersion, to destroy magic before it activates along with Gram Demolition, which takes out magic after it has been cast. As you can see, Tatsuya has a plethora of countermagics at his disposal effectively making him a magician's bane. Furthermore, Tatsuya's Decomposition is way more cost-effective than Gram Demolition.

I wonder if Tatsuya's Trident could also be useful against Phalanx? In the aforementioned incident, Trident could roll three spells into one effectively eliminating the time lag between spells and preventing enemy response. He could set the two initial barriers of Phalanx along with Juumonji as his three targets and take them all out at the same time to prevent new barriers from being put up.

[whsie]

Originally Posted by erdii

by the way why the fight between Gram dispersal and Phalanx would be attrition battle. Phalanx is not a defence magic and Tatsuya other things to use other than gram dispersal

The basis for that is at the end of V4 when Juumonji and Tatsuya meet up at the celebration party. Tatsuya at first was suspicious at why Juumonji wanted to have a talk. He started wondering if Juumonji knew his identity and started to calculate how his magic would fare against Juumonji's Phalanx. The conclusion in Tatsuya's head was that if they were to throw their respective magic at each other, each would eliminate the other. Phalanx has a layering effect where if one is broken, the layer below comes up and fills it. So Gram Dispersion would constantly disperse the top layer while the bottom layer comes up hence a battle of attrition. However, as you've said, this hypothetical situation only assumes Gram Dispersion and Phalanx without the use of any other magic or martial arts Tatsuya has at his disposal. In other words, I wouldn't look too deeply into it as anything else other than a pure comparison of their respective combat magics.

Also, Phalanx is not unbeatable. It was clearly stated in Volume 8 that Maya's magic (I forgot the name, but I translated that section) would clearly bypass Phalanx and skewer the user to death. Aside from destroying Maya's magic straight up (something only Tats can do), the orthodox way to beat her is to wrestle away control of light from her during her casting period which is like less than 1 second(impossible since Maya spent her whole life practicing light magic). Otherwise, anything that reflects even a tiny spec of light can be pierced. Only something that is 100% transparent can avoid the skewering effect.

While no magic is purely defensive or offensive, the nature of Phalanx is defensive. It's depicted as the strongest type of barrier magic in existence. With that being said, it can be used offensively when you just run through everyone like a tank. Nevertheless, it's first and foremost a tank (highly defensive).

[nacer666]

I think Tatsuya was thinking about him fighting katsuto with restrictions and only using the level he displayed during the matchs.I believe he can destroy phalanx altogether in one go if he uses decomposition with no limiter.

[whsie]

Originally Posted by nacer666

I think Tatsuya was thinking about him fighting katsuto with restrictions and only using the level he displayed during the matchs.I believe he can destroy phalanx altogether in one go if he uses decomposition with no limiter.

Frankly, there isn't enough details to extract anything truly meaningful other than a comparison of dispersion and phalanx. The way the thought process was described by the author made it seem like a Magic A vs. Magic B thing rather than Person A vs. Person B. As I said, truthfully, I wouldn't read too much into it. Just take the comparison at face value.

Some people believe that Tatsuya may be projecting his "unlocked" self, but as I said, there isn't enough information to deduce whether he was or wasn't. I would just read it and keep it as a note in the back of your mind. I personally wouldn't make any definite judgement of Tatsuya vs Juumonji unless I actually read a fight.

For all Ichijou was hyped up to be, Tatsuya crushed him handily in the most restricted and disadvantaged field possible.

[nacer666]

‏‎Masaki and kichijouji think of tatsuya as a 'rival' and that's almost makes me cry everytime i read it because they are so pathetic.‎

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by nacer666

Volume 9 spoilers here:
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2203837141

Nice I'll add a few comments/translations:

Post #5: That guy's who's glaring at Lina is Tats. Wonder what just happened with him doing that yet Lina's still just chilling...

#11: Remember that bit where Lina confronted Tats in school and they fought (non-seriously) slightly, and ended up with a almost-kiss? Got cut down a bit in the LNs, though in exchange there's a ton more Lina flags in later scenes.
(#31, a page over: original poster revised this bit, saying it wasn't cut down but was instead expanded a lot more. All of it good stuff, apparently)

#13-14: We finally have a name for that public transport private train room thing. And there's now details about Leo's family magic trait.

#16, Juumonji face: J - "So, the culprits are going after mages?"
Mayumi: "Eep Juumonji your face is scary" (This translation is not 100% accurate)

#19: Leo and Lina both found a Vampire each. Leo was pushed down by one but before the Vampire could do anything permanent Lina chased it off. This was not in WEB version.

#20: USNA have long range CAD-disruption magic. This wasn't in WEB.

#21: Vampires' official name: Paranormal Parasite.

#22: More Lina fanservice moe scenes elsewhere when Tats visited Leo at the hospital.

#24: Mikihiko's family shows up.

#26: The girl at the bottom right was the one that turned into a Vampire in WEB version, living with Lina. Here in LN she's just a neighbour this time, with the girl at bottom right being Lina's roommate.

#29: WEB 5-6 is split into three books. Kudou's private forces are tailing Tats' group. This Volume was filled with Lina fanservice scenes/flags. This volume ends right after Lina and Miyuki's duel.

#30: Author himself snarks his book is nowhere near the length of Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon series, yet it's being split into 3 books. Probably publisher's idea.

Overall: some fears Lina has her professional mage level bumped down a notch and those points are diverted into Tats+Lina scenes/fanservice. We'll see when this gets translated.

Originally Posted by Von Himmel

And oh god Juumonji You looked waaay too old in that one.

QFT

[whsie]

Originally Posted by nacer666

‏‎Masaki and kichijouji think of tatsuya as a 'rival' and that's almost makes me cry everytime i read it because they are so pathetic.‎

You mean Cardinal George and Ichijou Masaki? Well, Masaki with his family magic and combat background was supposed to be the undisputed combat king of the First Year. In most normal years, he probably would be the best of his class like how Juumonji is pretty much the undisputed best of the 3rd years. Problem is, he had the unfortunate luck of running into the Shiba siblings (aside from them, he is the best of the class).

If he had for example been in the Saegusa twin's class (1st year in 2nd arc) or the current senior class (3rd year in 2nd arc or 2nd year in 1st arc), he would probably be the best. I certainly hold Masaki's power in higher regard than Hattori or Kannon based on his volume 7 showing.

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by Flere821

Nice I'll add a few comments/translations:

Post #5: That guy's who's glaring at Lina is Tats. Wonder what just happened with him doing that yet Lina's still just chilling...

#11: Remember that bit where Lina confronted Tats in school and they fought (non-seriously) slightly, and ended up with a almost-kiss? Got cut down a bit in the LNs, though in exchange there's a ton more Lina flags in later scenes.
(#31, a page over: original poster revised this bit, saying it wasn't cut down but was instead expanded a lot more. All of it good stuff, apparently)

#13-14: We finally have a name for that public transport private train room thing. And there's now details about Leo's family magic trait.

#16, Juumonji face: J - "So, the culprits are going after mages?"
Mayumi: "Eep Juumonji your face is scary" (This translation is not 100% accurate)

#19: Leo and Lina both found a Vampire each. Leo was pushed down by one but before the Vampire could do anything permanent Lina chased it off. This was not in WEB version.

#20: USNA have long range CAD-disruption magic. This wasn't in WEB.

#21: Vampires' official name: Paranormal Parasite.

#22: More Lina fanservice moe scenes elsewhere when Tats visited Leo at the hospital.

#24: Mikihiko's family shows up.

#26: The girl at the bottom right was the one that turned into a Vampire in WEB version, living with Lina. Here in LN she's just a neighbour this time, with the girl at bottom right being Lina's roommate.

#29: WEB 5-6 is split into three books. Kudou's private forces are tailing Tats' group. This Volume was filled with Lina fanservice scenes/flags. This volume ends right after Lina and Miyuki's duel.

#30: Author himself snarks his book is nowhere near the length of Kyoukai Senjou no Horizon series, yet it's being split into 3 books. Probably publisher's idea.

Overall: some fears Lina has her professional mage level bumped down a notch and those points are diverted into Tats+Lina scenes/fanservice. We'll see when this gets translated.

QFT

#5: I believe this is the scene where Lina joins Tatsuya and co for lunch. Everyone starts asking Lina about her background and Tatsuya, suspecting her true identity, asks her why her nickname isn't Angie instead of Lina. This refers to her public alias as Angie Sirius.

[Mentar]

Thanks Flere, sounds delicious to me

Some emphasized Tats-Lina scenes are exactly what the story needs, because this will also flare up Miyuki *grins*

And no matter what drill haters say, I think she's looking stunning.

[blackwhite67]

@Flere821: For the second picture, I presume the girl on the bottom left is Mia, or Michaela Hongo who gets possessed by the parasite to be Pixie?

If you ask me, the Web Arc was lacking in LinaxTatsuya flags and scenes, but in any case I'm sure this won't hamper the action scenes in the slightest.

I think three volumes is way better than four. That would be way too long and details are always welcome.

[cyberdemon]

I've got to wonder how powerful a child between Tatsuya and Lina would be...

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by mumalkatar

ahh, i see i see..
Tatsuya rank in combat-class is still not cheating, since he can still lose againts Yanagi, Kazama or Yakumo.

Honestly the author is being very unclear about Tatsuya against the top fighters in mahouka. When Tatsuya said that Yanagi showed that being a guardian isn't all that he was most likely talking about the events 3 years prior to the current timeline, as for fighting his master I have no idea but there is a chance that he was only talking about losing to him in a practice battle and/or in martial arts.
I mean it won't make ANY sense for him to lose to at least Yanagi right now, he just beat Lina who is supposedly the strongest magician in the USNA and his powers were actually half sealed so yeah.
Also there is something that you have to keep in mind when thinking about Tatsuya's ability which is versality, Kazama, Yanagi and Yakumo are all powerful magicians and fighters but they're always being in situations of close range anti-personnel combat where they excel, on the other hand Tatsuya is practically omnipotent, he can fight people in close combat, mid-range, long range, over the horizon, he can blow up cities, he can fight tanks and armored stuff head on which Yanagi had a lot of difficulity to do seeing how his magic deoesn't really destroy them, and in a group battle Tatsuya makes his allies semi-invincible by regenerating them infinitely.
And if we were to just look at the characters abilities on paper without taking in consideration anything besides that I honestly can't see any of the 3 being able to fight him and win when he's at full power(Like i said, this is only on paper so i have no idea what the author would do), when he used Mist Dispersion and Cardinal George saw it and mistoke it for Molecular Divider which I think isn't as good as Mist Dispersion he was shocked and everyone around him was which means it's an amazing ability so Mist Dispersion is even more amazing, and when he used Regrowth to heal his friend everyone thought it's a high class magic of the highest level and all, now Tatsuya actually has Mist Dispersion+Gram Dispersion+Regrowth to use in batle which are all magic of the highest caliber combined with another classified ability in Elemental Sight, his abilities in combat magic are clearly at the peak of what is possible and it was already said that in ninjutsu/martial arts he surpassed Yakumo in skills he just needs more experience in that area so if you combine the two for him to lose to fighters who are just a bit higher on him when it comes to ninjutsu/martial arts but he more than compensates for it in magic(if their magic prowess is considered equal to his then i have no idea what the point behind calling his abilities classified and all) then something is wrong.

[whsie]

Jirachier, break up the paragraphs. It's a bit stressful on the eyes

Honestly, Tatsuya should be better than all characters thus far with his versatility and experience, but there has been enough pointless discussions that go nowhere (because of a lack of clarity and detail) that it's best to just leave everything as it is until we see a true fight before passing judgement.

[Von Himmel]

I've got to wonder how powerful a child between Tatsuya and Lina would be...

Not as strong as Tatsuya and Miyuki would be, that's for sure.

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

Honestly the author is being very unclear about Tatsuya against the top fighters in mahouka. When Tatsuya said that Yanagi showed that being a guardian isn't all that he was most likely talking about the events 3 years prior to the current timeline, as for fighting his master I have no idea but there is a chance that he was only talking about losing to him in a practice battle and/or in martial arts.
I mean it won't make ANY sense for him to lose to at least Yanagi right now, he just beat Lina who is supposedly the strongest magician in the USNA and his powers were actually half sealed so yeah.
Also there is something that you have to keep in mind when thinking about Tatsuya's ability which is versality, Kazama, Yanagi and Yakumo are all powerful magicians and fighters but they're always being in situations of close range anti-personnel combat where they excel, on the other hand Tatsuya is practically omnipotent, he can fight people in close combat, mid-range, long range, over the horizon, he can blow up cities, he can fight tanks and armored stuff head on which Yanagi had a lot of difficulity to do seeing how his magic deoesn't really destroy them, and in a group battle Tatsuya makes his allies semi-invincible by regenerating them infinitely.
And if we were to just look at the characters abilities on paper without taking in consideration anything besides that I honestly can't see any of the 3 being able to fight him and win when he's at full power(Like i said, this is only on paper so i have no idea what the author would do), when he used Mist Dispersion and Cardinal George saw it and mistoke it for Molecular Divider which I think isn't as good as Mist Dispersion he was shocked and everyone around him was which means it's an amazing ability so Mist Dispersion is even more amazing, and when he used Regrowth to heal his friend everyone thought it's a high class magic of the highest level and all, now Tatsuya actually has Mist Dispersion+Gram Dispersion+Regrowth to use in batle which are all magic of the highest caliber combined with another classified ability in Elemental Sight, his abilities in combat magic are clearly at the peak of what is possible and it was already said that in ninjutsu/martial arts he surpassed Yakumo in skills he just needs more experience in that area so if you combine the two for him to lose to fighters who are just a bit higher on him when it comes to ninjutsu/martial arts but he more than compensates for it in magic(if their magic prowess is considered equal to his then i have no idea what the point behind calling his abilities classified and all) then something is wrong.

I understand your concerns. To me, consistency of the characters' strength and abilities are important to the quality of a series. The author is being realistic by stressing that despite Tatsuya's OP abilities, there are exploitable weaknesses, and that in any battle compatibility is important. In other words, there are no absolutes in combat. The weakness of every magic is that visual confirmation is needed to identify and target. Tatsuya has Elemental Sight which is a huge advantage, but it isn't an all-powerful as Yakumo has demonstrated. Yakumo has magic that can disguise himself to hide from Elemental Sight. Lina has Parade which can do something similar. The parasites proved to be his bane due to their unique nature as pushion information bodies. Tatsuya is indeed pretty much all-powerful, but he has his weaknesses and he can be defeated under the right circumstances and with the right tactics

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

I understand your concerns. To me, consistency of the characters' strength and abilities are important to the quality of a series. The author is being realistic by stressing that despite Tatsuya's OP abilities, there are exploitable weaknesses, and that in any battle compatibility is important. In other words, there are no absolutes in combat. The weakness of every magic is that visual confirmation is needed to identify and target. Tatsuya has Elemental Sight which is a huge advantage, but it isn't an all-powerful as Yakumo has demonstrated. Yakumo has magic that can disguise himself to hide from Elemental Sight. Lina has Parade which can do something similar. The parasites proved to be his bane due to their unique nature as pushion information bodies. Tatsuya is indeed pretty much all-powerful, but he has his weaknesses and he can be defeated under the right circumstances and with the right tactics

I agree with you that Tatsuya can be defeated, but like you said you need the right circumstances and tactics(which so far were the only way to even compete with him). But if we look at his abilities overall and there was a way to give him an average he would be ranked as one of the strongest magicians in the world(just like how Juumonji is a powerful magician but just because he would get oneshoted against Maya doesn't mean he is at the lowest level, you have to take into consideration a character facing affinities to which he is neutral, ones to which he is weak and the ones to which he is stronger to determine his value).
So overall Tatsuya is broken, and I wish the author would stop just bringing up specific counters to him and just make some of the true strongest magicians in the world(as in NOT lina) fight him and ones who are neutral against him and vice versa, I like tactics and strategy but right now it's a little too much since every single real "opponent" to tatsuya has been a direct counter, I just want him to fight someone who can handle tatsuya not because he happens to counter his abilities but because he posesses abilities that are/almost are just as amazing.

[nacer666]

More v9 pics here: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2201941555

[Iamis]

In almost all of Tatsuya's Fights he is not fighting to kill and has orders to keep his magic secret but someone he is trying to avoid killing for the most part

When he does fight to kill... well its just not a fight anymore XD