2011-03-27, 23:43 | Link #22441 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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... well damn. There was always a dissonance between what defined a "person" and what defined a "human", but this solves the end of Beato-Erika's duel rather neatly. In that case, the only thing that still bugs me to a significant degree is how Erika was able to see Shannon and Kanon at the same time. Whenever it's brought up, it gets settled with "Very little is narrated by Erika, so we don't KNOW what she sees." But that doesn't satisfy me because: a. Erika makes a big deal about the power of her Detetive's Authority, and follows Knox violently b. Erika makes a big deal about knowing where every single suspect is, at any given point in time. She rarely lets people stray from where she can confirm them. LOL-TAPE. c. She definitely seems aware of both the existence of both Shannon and Kanon, and the "number of people / humans" on the island. Seeing things from an "author theory" standpoint (I think), I always imagined Erika represented either "the wrong type of reader", or possibly even the collective voice/criticism of the R-Prime readership, in the form of a Mary Sue detective. And by "represents the collective voice", I mean, the readership might be saying things like "A REAL detective would gather the suspects up, and seal the room with tape or something", so Erika sets herself to doing that sort of thing. Of course, the readers arent writing the gameboard - so the author would, in my view, write Erika as a super-detective to address these criticisms. Where I'm going with that, is, even if "lol Shkanon" is the official solution, Erika might represent the type of readership who doesn't know the answer (a.k.a "Natsuhi is a child-murdering seductress!!"), so she literally DOES get to see Shannon and Kanon together, no problem. Of course, that has the problem of making the "official" answer impossible for her to reach. Um ... ... I don't know. The only other way I can solve it is, Ryukishi literally only meant her as a tool for us in the real world, and Piece-Erika just ... never ... looks at Shannon and Kanon at the same ... time ... or ... ... ... I don't know. This is one of the only things in Umineko I haven't come to some kind of resolution on. Thoughts? Sorry if this is a dead horse topic. |
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2011-03-28, 07:14 | Link #22442 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Okonogi is well happy to help her and so Ange departs to her new life with Amakusa as her bodyguard. Several decades later, Ange has become a famous writer with a series of books for children depicting the adventures of Sakutaro and his friends. She finally shows herself in public to receive a prize and that's where finally she learns that Hachijo has been trying to meet her for a long time through his/her editor. Before the meeting she learns that Hachijo Touya is actually a pen name for two persons, one of which is Hachijo Touya and the other is Ikuko Touya. The day of the meeting itself Ange instantly recognizes her brother in Touya. He is now aged and on a wheelchair and he has lost almost all of his past memories. Initially he was scared of those remnants memories so he refused to meet Ange several years before when she was the one trying to contact him. But then he changed his mind, however Ange couldn't be found anywhere for all that time. So they discuss a bit of what happened, but Battler doesn't remember almost anything about those two days. He only knows how he was able to escape (through the underground tunnel that lead to the old military base). It is implied that Battler and Ikuko are a couple although they never married. So in the end nothing much changes, after meeting after all those years they go back to their separate lives. Just one day on a 4 October Ange asks Battler and Ikuko to join her to the new fukuin orphanage which she revived to resemble the old Mansion of Rokkenjima and where all the children are taught "magic" to live happier lives. Battler is surprised to see a perfect reconstruction of the Mansion's great hall and more importantly a perfect reproduction of Beatrice's portrait. So he experience a vision from the past where he's able to meet again all those who died in that incident and Beatrice herself. THE END
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2011-03-28, 07:58 | Link #22443 |
ahaha.wav
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Cold Vein
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So does this mean that all those stories about what happened on Rokkenjima, are in fact Battlers stories, which he wrote (with the help of Hachijo Touya) to help himself cope with his past?
What does that mean for the previous EPs, that they are also part of his family fan fic? I hope that I'm jumping the gun on this one. And whats up with the ending, is anything interesting said in Battlers vision/acid trip? Thanks for the write up Jan-Poo, tho I'm just more confused now. |
2011-03-28, 08:14 | Link #22444 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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The assumption is that 1-2 (the message bottles) came from "Beatrice," and 3 and on were written by Touya. Of course, there's some fuzziness there. For instance, the whole deal with "Reigonamu was a pen name I used before I started writing as Touya" came from Featherine's avatar character in ep6; was this also true of R-Prime? The answer seems most likely to be "yes, more than likely," and there's not much reason why it isn't, but he's left himself some wiggle room to potentially shake up who the true authors are in the end.
There are additional issues, like whether Meta-Battler is an elevated character or whether he's somehow representative of Battler-as-Touya's internal coping with the memories through fiction, or possibly both at different times. And which layers go where (Featherine having power over Lambda, yet at the end Lambda and Bern seem independent of the story world including R-Prime, etc.).
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2011-03-28, 12:20 | Link #22445 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Not really Renall. The Tea Party starts with Featherinne where she has an internal monologue where she thinks about what to write next.
Soon after you see Bern, Lambda and Erika which then read a mail telling what happened to all the "dwellers of the illusion world", So I think it's implied that even that whole scene is something that Featherine wrote. So the ending still implies that she exists on a higher layer. The problem is she's the kind of author that includes herself in her own story so it seemed that she existed on the same layer of Bern and Lambda. Plus Featherine is most probably a meta-representation of Touya and Ikuko or even Ryuukishi himself. So in other words it's all freaking confusing, because the various characters exist in many different layers at the same time and the metaphors represents many different things at the same time, and I'm not even sure that the layers are static.
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2011-03-29, 01:07 | Link #22449 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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I mean just look at her: Spoiler for Hachijou Ikuko:
:3 Ok, so that still says Hachijou Tooya... |
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2011-03-29, 16:49 | Link #22452 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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And you decided to mindscrew Ange all to hell in the midst of her delusions and searching for the truth of her families death you...er...YOU!!....I mean to say, you...! *breaks down*
Oh hell, god bless you, ma'am. Keep up the good work. |
2011-03-29, 19:23 | Link #22455 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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It's really not very clear. What it is certain is that the 1998 of EP8 and the one of EP4 are different. And actually EP8 itself shows two possible futures.
Including EP6 we then have four scenarios that while having all the same background differ for a few relevant particulars. Are those alternate universes? Are those just fictions maybe with a single exception? Are those nothing else but what ifs and only the true ending must be considered canon? Who knows...
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2011-03-29 at 21:36. |
2011-03-29, 23:50 | Link #22457 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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2011-03-30, 07:07 | Link #22458 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Guys stop telling in the EP7 thread that the painter of Beatrice's portrait is Kumasawa when it's absolutely clear that it's impossible from what was revealed in EP8.
If that's a joke it doesn't look like one. Don't tell them bogus theories.
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2011-03-30, 17:21 | Link #22460 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Nobody stated that Kumasawa is the painter is a fact. I clearly stated such and such "is a theory". Besides it's a thread for discussing possibilities as of the information we have from episode 7. If you're mad about people doing what the thread clearly asks them to do that's your problem.
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