Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei - generic discussion thread (NO SPOILERS)

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

A full school year. Though not necessarily full-time.

Hmm, risky. In the case of a bad apple you've just given an entire year's worth of bad classes to students.

Of course, if you'd kept it shorter you'd have driven the students nuts with constantly switching teachers. No right answer.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, but there, electronic teaching is much more culturally accepted than here. So I assume that, rather than supplant it, extra teachers would be there to complement it. Help students who are already struggling with the automatic stuff.

And depending on the numbers they'd get through a draft, the difficulty of teaching could be lowered, since teaching 6 kids is not like teaching 25.

I had that, actually. It works... but again, only if you have a capable teacher. In the case of bad teachers we tended to ignore him and focus on the tutorial.

Originally Posted by maplehurry

That's kinda of an exaggeration without actual statistics.

Such statistics are hard to come by for a variety of reasons, both clean and dirty. I can only talk about experiences of my own and those close I talked to. Some good, others bad.

And I'm talking "had a teacher literally tell me I was lying about not understanding an assignment because I didn't understand his explanation" bad.

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Right now, a certain percentage of Course 1 students eventually become good teachers. Then similarly, there should also exist a certain percentage of Course 2 students who can also become good teachers (for Course 2) in the future.

You're assuming a certain percentage of the course 1 students that could become teachers actually want to become teachers. That's a pretty big if, especially since teaching isn't anywhere near as glamorous as virtually any of the other job opportunities waiting for them. A lot of which -though not all- they can just step into, unlike teaching where they have to start a new education where all their preciously gathered practical magical skills suddenly mean a lot less.

Originally Posted by maplehurry

As is, it's kind of hard to just accept that overall it's more likely for course 2 students to benefit less than benefit more through words alone.

That's just the kind of negative impact a bad teacher can have. This isn't just some wild fantasy, I've literally had periods in my education in which a bad teacher drastically slowed down the pace of learning

Can throwing uneducated teachers in front of the class work? Yes. Sometimes there's people with a talent for learning, or people that can bond with a class to a point where it becomes a learning experience for both sides. But it can also go very, very wrong. Like I said, pretty much Russian Roulette.

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

Very much so, yes. Particularly in the context of "he's really good, he just gets bad grades because the system doesn't properly measure the kind of talent he has" - which is exactly what the average underachiever wants to be told about their own grades

And yet this too is far from unrealistic. Current high school level educational programs (varying per country and culture, of course) have a tendency to emphasize things like mathematics and literature skills but can fail to spot and nurture a student's individual talents that lie in other fields. A blooming artist might do well in art class, but the system tells him that drawing pretty pictures doesn't get him his diploma and he should really hit the books to pass that math exam.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I had that, actually. It works... but again, only if you have a capable teacher. In the case of bad teachers we tended to ignore him and focus on the tutorial.

If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, and they're no worse off than if they'd had no one to help them.

Besides, if you have several teachers, odds are that at least one of them will be good, which will increase the level of some students, who will in turn be better able to help their classmates.

I get that you had some bad experiences with teachers. But they're a lot less dependent on them than we are. If the teacher is bad, they can just ignore him.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by SkullFaerie

You say subtle, but that's actually a huge difference. She looks like a teacher there- and an adult. In the anime, I had trouble understanding she's the teacher, not a random klutz with balloon boobs. (Mean girls style: "she doesn't even go here!")
The scene would've actually made sense had she been like this. What we got didn't make a lick of sense.

Yeah actually seeing the scene in the anime again for comparison I shouldn't even call it subtle .

I don't know what the hell the staff were thinking here. What a travesty.

[wontaek]

Originally Posted by SigUp

I don't think it was explicitely stated, but it was alluded to a couple of times with the family issue. One spot would be Morisaki where Tatsuya in his talk to Mari said he was interested in seeing Morisaki family's quick draw technique. Another possible spot would be the mentioning of the ten families of powerful magic users. If you have families being the most powerful users, then it's obvious that magical talent is something that is inherited. Also, it is alluded to in the equality conversation with the talk about how those with lower magical ability think that their efforts are not rewarded enough. About the difference, here's where the cut at 100 in the entrance exam comes into play. The difference between 1 and 200 may be gigantic, but the difference between 100 and 101 may be very small. And maybe the chance of one of the top guys making a mistake to drop out is far smaller than somebody from let's say the 80 to 100 range making a mistake.


They may have different careers, but this is still basic education, albeit in magic. So while as a course 2 student you won't have access to the elite jobs, you still are special just by being a magician. Therefore you can use the basic education (you still get the theoretical stuff and get access to facilities to practice your practical skills etc.) to get into lower tier jobs like a police academy after graduating from high school. To come back to sports school, it's like differentiating into a first team and a second team. Obviously the first team is preferred by getting the better coaches or something like that, but you still train the same skills. Let's say you are in the sports school of a football club, no matter whether you are a first teamer or a second teamer, you still train passing, shooting, running, ball handling etc. And if you are good and if the need from the first team arises, you'll get elevated.


Well, but they are probably not getting into the National University for Magic and have to settle for lower tier higher education / job apprenticeships.

Here we have started talking about elevation and dropping out. From what I have seen so far, the drop out rate seems small thus chance for elevation also seems small as well. If the gap between bottom 10 of course 1 and top 10 of course 2 indeed is small, then optimal system will have all the students undergo periodic checks and test and will frequently raise and lower student status, yet in this series, there seems to be very little mobility between the class. The existence of ten magic family which can bend the rules for its need, seems to enhance the perception that most people are born to the destiny and there seems to be little chance to move up to higher class. Another perception that the series has not broken yet is how hard it is for course 1 students to stay at course 1. If, due to structure, that course 1 students can stay at course 1 as long as they fulfill their minimum requirements, then you have a structure in place that cannot reward course 2 students for all their effort.

A point I want to repeat is appearance of small drop out rate in course 1. If it is only the bottom 20 in course 1 that are in danger of dropping out, then it doesn't make sense to have more than 20*2 = 40 reserves. 100 reserves when you expect about 20 spot is a serious overkill and waste of resource.

If we pursue the line of thought that what they are receiving is "BASIC" magic education, instead of more advanced stuff, then this brings up new line of criticism as well, mainly that the differentiation of course 1 and course 2 may have been made too early. If we take the view that course 2 was an after thought attempt to make existing resources available for more people, then still, it is hard to fathom what aspect of "basic" education make it necessary for certain students to receive such "special" care. It would make more sense to give all students teacher access, and then as they go into their "advanced" education in college level, differentiate the amount of tutoring and coaching they would get. To use sports analogy, even though some high school atheletes do get special treatment, the head coach of high school team will try to spend some time with even the lowliest of the reserve, just in case that lowly reserve has a special talents that can be 'exploited". You have to go to the pro level to find difference in tutoring and coaching that is comparable to the magic high school in this series.

Finally, I saw many people dismissing teaching professionals in the posts above. Bad teachers can hurt, but decent teachers who put decent effort in their teaching helps students much more than students realize. Even though I am capable of self-study using various means, it helps immensely to have someone demonstrate certain aspects of the subject and being there to answer some of the questions. I like to turn the table and say a good student knows how to make best use of the teachers, and often they are good because they do take advantage of lessons and lectures a teacher can provide. This is why I think more optimal division of course 1 and 2 would be the student's aptitude to make better use of the teachers and not just raw magic potential.

[XFire]

I love this. Four episodes in and we've already got a giant debate going on. This is the real reason I love Mahouka, there's just so damn much to argue about.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by wontaek

If we pursue the line of thought that what they are receiving is "BASIC" magic education, instead of more advanced stuff, then this brings up new line of criticism as well, mainly that the differentiation of course 1 and course 2 may have been made too early. If we take the view that course 2 was an after thought attempt to make existing resources available for more people, then still, it is hard to fathom what aspect of "basic" education make it necessary for certain students to receive such "special" care. It would make more sense to give all students teacher access, and then as they go into their "advanced" education in college level, differentiate the amount of tutoring and coaching they would get.

Thing is, the school is a subsidiary of the National University of Magic and their funding is dependent on the results they deliver to it. So if it is mainly in order to fulfill the requirements set by the university it does make sense from the perspective of the school to train the top students to elite level that get accepted by the university, rather then go for a higher average level over 200 students, but with perhaps fewer students that get into the university. This also doesn't mean that it is then senseless to keep another 100 students, even if only for reserve purposes. Those other students may not get into university, but they, even if they never move up to course 1, still can get into lower tier apprenticeships, jobs etc. that are still higher paid than your average non-magic job.

Originally Posted by XFire

I love this. Four episodes in and we've already got a giant debate going on. This is the real reason I love Mahouka, there's just so damn much to argue about.

Yes, I agree, people can talk about how they think it is not solid world building etc., but it is a definite sign when we can keep on and on discussing while pulling out examples, theories, real life references etc. etc.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by XFire

I love this. Four episodes in and we've already got a giant debate going on. This is the real reason I love Mahouka, there's just so damn much to argue about.

I'm surprised that this anime has the most discussion out of any other spring 2014 anime not just on this site but others as well.

Keeps my hopes up that the later arcs will make up for the beginning.

[kagato3]

It's been maybe about 2 weeks into the school year and already there have been at least 3 people that have done something that had others not covered for them or not stopped them would have been grounds for expulsion all of them course 1 students. And thats not even dealing with the possible mistakes that could happen when you are trying to cheat the laws of physics. Though I doubt anything too dangerous is taught a bad enough mistake could take out a whole class.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by IceHism

I'm surprised that this anime has the most discussion out of any other spring 2014 anime not just on this site but others as well.

This thread has 87 pages, over 1.700 posts and over 136.000 views and we are only at episode 4 of a full two-cour anime. Two cour animes from the autumn season like Strike the Blood or Golden Time have 2.000 and 2.400 respectively with views around 160.000 and 180.000. Heck, even Nagi no Asukara only has about double the amount of Mahouka now. It's mind-boggling, especially considering the speed at which we are currently discussing some things like the freaking school system.

[Traece]

Originally Posted by SigUp

This thread has 87 pages, over 1.700 posts and over 136.000 views and we are only at episode 4 of a full two-cour anime. Two cour animes from the autumn season like Strike the Blood or Golden Time have 2.000 and 2.400 respectively with views around 160.000 and 180.000. Heck, even Nagi no Asukara only has about double the amount of Mahouka now. It's mind-boggling, especially considering the speed at which we are currently discussing some things like the freaking school system.

It's a thought-provoking show with a lot of depth in its writing. It's also, in all honesty, not that great of a show.

When you have a show with a lot of character and many flaws people tend to talk about it. They talk about all the different aspects of the universe that the writer(s) created, and they talk about everything that's been done wrong.

On another note, this high school seems extremely dangerous to attend. I'm not sure I'd want to have magic in that world. I might get killed the first day of the semester by some guy with a grudge.

[fujin of shadows]

A reminder of the relevant cast and their VA

P.S. Let us not have another 'best girl' competition or the best WAIFU competition...




Just a minute, I just notice, most characters that are considered relevant in the early stage of Mahouka are girls

[Kakurin]

I like the cast, even if some novel readers say they think Hayami Saori is miscast as Miyuki. Think she fits very well. Nakamura Yuuichi does his job also fairly well, brings the calm nature of Tatsuya out without making him too bland. And then there's Satou Satomi to complete the Oreimo connection.

My favourites as of now are Mari (like Inoue Marina in this role) and Mayumi, especially when the latter is acting mischievous. I think some of her scenes have been cut, which I think is unfortunate. But still, I like all of the girls that have gotten plenty of screen time until now, including Miyuki and Erika's also great. So no clear-cut favourite for me, yet.

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by SigUp

I like the cast, even if some novel readers say they think Hayami Saori is miscast as Miyuki. Think she fits very well. Nakamura Yuuichi does his job also fairly well, brings the calm nature of Tatsuya out without making him too bland. And then there's Satou Satomi to complete the Oreimo connection.

My favourites as of now are Mari (like Inoue Marina in this role) and Mayumi, especially when the latter is acting mischievous. I think some of her scenes have been cut, which I think is unfortunate. But still, I like all of the girls that have gotten plenty of screen time until now, including Miyuki and Erika's also great. So no clear-cut favourite for me, yet.

I agree with you.....Hayami Saori-san fits Miyuki well....

The voice of Ono-sensei though, please change it....

[kagato3]

Well most of the student leardship is female. Honoka and Shizuku are in Miyuki's class I believe so they are kind of her friends, and the rest are in Tatsuya's class and minus Yoshida have already formed something of his gang. Zo it's not surprising that there are a lot of girls that are relevant.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

The voice of Ono-sensei though, please change it....

It was horrible. Nothing like I imagined and way worse than it should have been. She's what, a counseler and a counselor should not sound like that... Imagined her as a more mature and feminine kind of person instead of a loli sound-a-like.

[HandofFate]

I agree, Ono-sensei always came about as a slightly playful mischievous character, but had a confident adult air to her. Not a bumbling loli.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by Traece

It's a thought-provoking show with a lot of depth in its writing. It's also, in all honesty, not that great of a show.

When you have a show with a lot of character and many flaws people tend to talk about it. They talk about all the different aspects of the universe that the writer(s) created, and they talk about everything that's been done wrong.

On another note, this high school seems extremely dangerous to attend. I'm not sure I'd want to have magic in that world. I might get killed the first day of the semester by some guy with a grudge.

Well, I already expected that the anime could never be as amazing as the novel so I don't mind that its not the best show

But its not the worst show ever so far either. I'd say its an above-average to good out of all the other spring 2014 animes but it some how generates more discussion then the best and worst shows of the season. I think that deserves merit

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by IceHism

Well, I already expected that the anime could never be as amazing as the novel so I don't mind that its not the best show

But its not the worst show ever so far either. I'd say its an above-average to good out of all the other spring 2014 animes but it some how generates more discussion then the best and worst shows of the season. I think that deserves merit

Let's put it this way, Mahouka, as of now, is as good as SAO's anime adaptation and better than Tokyo Ravens....

You guys can talk shit about Sword Art Online as much as you want but it does not change the fact that it is an acceptable light novel to anime adaptation....same goes for Tokyo Ravens, but eight volumes to a 20+ episode was a bit much

[AC-Phoenix]

Btw is there a reason Erika doesn't have that silk part on her uniform or did I just miss that Mizuki is actually in course 1?

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Btw is there a reason Erika doesn't have that silk part on her uniform or did I just miss that Mizuki is actually in course 1?

I think the silk-veil thing depends on the preference of the student...More like a fashion statement