AnimeSuki Forums

Sunder the Gold · 2013-03-28, 19:40

Think of a spell's rank as its weight, and a mage's rank as their lifting strength.

I can lift a sword, but swords are heavy, and I wouldn't be able to swing it very well. My rank isn't enough to easily handle the rank of the sword.

Swordsmen are much stronger, and able to use the same weapon much easier. Their rank is high enough that using the sword is easy for them.

By the same token, just because Hayate is the mightiest mage in the world, that doesn't mean she can easily cast the mighiest of spells. It just means that she's CAPABLE of casting them. No one else has the ability to even TRY.

She ought to be handling lesser spells with trivial ease, but when StrikerS came around, Tsuzuki decided to go with "big power means clumsy handling". Previous to that time, the only stated difficulty Hayate had with her power was getting an Armed Device strong enough to survive being used as a channel.

Sansker · 2013-03-28, 19:42

Yes but that is not the point here. Magic is still haven’t been define as constant on one’s body or if this grows up with time and training or just time. So a scale that measures that should try to keep it simple. However this is not what they do. And there is when I say is a little complicated. Can be explain? Yes, but that doesn’t mean is any less weird.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-28, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold

Think of a spell's rank as its weight, and a mage's rank as their lifting strength.

I can lift a sword, but swords are heavy, and I wouldn't be able to swing it very well. My rank isn't enough to easily handle the rank of the sword.

Swordsmen are much stronger, and able to use the same weapon much easier. Their rank is high enough that using the sword is easy for them.

By the same token, just because Hayate is the mightiest mage in the world, that doesn't mean she can easily cast the mighiest of spells. It just means that she's CAPABLE of casting them. No one else has the ability to even TRY.

She ought to be handling lesser spells with trivial ease, but when StrikerS came around, Tsuzuki decided to go with "big power means clumsy handling". Previous to that time, the only stated difficulty Hayate had with her power was getting an Armed Device strong enough to survive being used as a channel.

To be fair, Hayate flat out said that her Linker Core was fused with Reinforce's and that was how Rein Zwei was born, and, unlike most magic users who come into their spells, Hayate had all her spells dumped on her, so she only has a few low-level spells, and most of her stuff is long range blow the fuck out of everything spells that take a long time to cast, and since she got her spells improperly in canon, she needs to have both a circle (either circle or triangle), plus chanting (for the most part).

She got away with it in A's, because her Linker Core hadn't been completely fused yet.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-28, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sansker

Yes but that is not the point here. Magic is still haven’t been define as constant on one’s body or if this grows up with time and training or just time. So a scale that measures that should try to keep it simple. However this is not what they do. And there is when I say is a little complicated. Can be explain? Yes, but that doesn’t mean is any less weird.

Sansker, it's called "suspension of disbelief" and "Magic A is Magic A".

So long as it's consistent, don't worry about it.

It doesn't have to make sense so long as it's consistent.

Sansker · 2013-03-28, 19:49

I allow my "suspension of disbelief" kicks in, but if something doesn't make sense then doesn't make sense. I will call that to be confusing.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-28, 19:50

Again, it's not confusing at all. They flat out explain how stuff works

I think you're being obtuse just for the sake of being argumentative.

Keroko · 2013-03-28, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanya01

To be fair, Hayate flat out said that her Linker Core was fused with Reinforce's and that was how Rein Zwei was born

Nnnnot exactly. That actually took a conscious effort and lots of research. It wasn't just "Reinforce fuses core with Hayate, poof, hayate is pregnant with Zwei." Zwei was build the way all unison devices are build.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-28, 19:53

It was a beautiful and natural process. XP

But, no, I was talking about how in the sound stages that hers and Rein's Linker Cores had been fused and using that fusion was how Rein Zwei was born.

Keroko · 2013-03-28, 19:58

Huh, I remember that differently. Which one's we talking about again?

Oh, and on Hayate, it's not that casting spells is impossible for her, it's just that her long-range (and I mean kilometer level long-range) accuracy and casting speed takes a bit of a hit. She does just fine in the first episode all by her lonesome.

Rising Dragon · 2013-03-28, 20:00

Neither of you are wrong; Nanya's just remarking on how the linker core fusion was necessary to create Rein.

Nanya01 · 2013-03-28, 20:02

Here, just after Rein's dream of Reinforce and the Wolkenritter in the past...

Hayate: Rein’s dreams, you say?
Mariel: Before it seems she was having normal dreams but this time…
Hayate: It might be the same left over memories I experienced long ago. My linker core is melded with the original Reinforce, and Rein’s linker core is born from my own core so...
Mariel: You’re saying that the memories and emotions have been left behind? That sounds like an occult/supernatural/unnatural phenomena to me.
Hayate: Well, I am pretty unnatural myself. It was a Lost Logia after all.

Vita practically hated Reinforce and the other knights in the past.

Keroko · 2013-03-28, 20:38

Ah, that one. That's a case of "correlation doesn't equal causation." Reinforce knew Hayate would create a new unison device (she promised, after all) and knowing this pre-programmed a message to her core. It was a conscious act on Reinforce's part, but Hayate creating Zwei was completely her choice as well, right down to her functions and appearance.

From the A's sound stage 3:

Hayate: Yeah, but to be frank I felt that I should make it myself from the start. I'm thinking of getting help from Yuuno-kun and Mari-san to start designing but it's really difficult.
Shamal: So you're thinking about a unison device after all?
Hayate: Mid's AI are so unaffectionate, and I want the storage to be in the shape of a book. When I think about it, a master program doesn't sound too bad. A child who inherits Reinforce's name should be harmonizing. Something I have to make with my own hands.
Viita: Yeah.
Signum: We wait with joy at the arrival of a new companion who shall protect you with us.
Shamal: Until then, we'll just have to make do with the standard issue devices.
Hayate: I'll do my best.
Viita: If Hayate's going to make her, I'd like her to be a lot younger looking than me. Hey Hayate, will you make like that?
Hayate: Oh, I'm still not sure. I haven't given any thought to what she'll look like yet.
Shamal: Well when she'll finally created, there'll be no doubt that she'll be the youngest member of our family.

Kaijo · 2013-03-28, 21:06

To be fair, this is how the series skirted with the issue of one woman getting another pregnant and giving birth. I mean, if you wanna look at the subtext. Rein has Reinforce's mismatched stocking and Hayate's hair cross. So while it was technically Hayate's choice, we also knew it was going to happen.

Nanoha probably has the only instance of two women "fathering" a child, yet not actually be romantically attached. Although Reinforce did spend some time inside Hayate... /shot

***CrowKenobi*** · 2013-03-28, 21:26

Before this thread gets even more off track, can we please move the current discussion to the Magic and Technology of MGLN thread?

MeisterBabylon · 2013-03-29, 10:00

When I saw the thread title, I thot "StrikerS would make a terrible compilation movie."

And then I saw ORIGINAL WRITING.

DAMN IT SEVEN ARCS, YOU BETTER HAVE SHINBO WORKING ON THIS PROJECT!! OR ELSE THIS WILL BE DOG DAYS 03!!

Kaijo · 2013-03-29, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

When I saw the thread title, I thot "StrikerS would make a terrible compilation movie."

And then I saw ORIGINAL WRITING.

DAMN IT SEVEN ARCS, YOU BETTER HAVE SHINBO WORKING ON THIS PROJECT!! OR ELSE THIS WILL BE DOG DAYS 03!!

Now you have me REALLY worried. If they turn Nanoha into 95% fluff like they did with Dog Days... well, I suppose some people will be happy, even if it means the plot is reduced to 5%.

Akiyoshi · 2013-03-29, 10:57

Or worse ...it could be a *gasp* NANOHA DOG DAYS CROSSOVER!

oOo!

NorthernFallout · 2013-03-29, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Or worse ...it could be a *gasp* NANOHA DOG DAYS CROSSOVER!

My outright hatred would reach critical mass.

Akiyoshi · 2013-03-29, 11:06

Three hours of Nanoha, Fate and that Caro-expied puppy princess doing nothing more than cute fluff xDU

Keroko · 2013-03-29, 11:13

People, please, we already have Nanoha: Dog Days style. Vivid. It even has the exploding clothes.

2013-03-28, 19:42	Link #262
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	Yes but that is not the point here. Magic is still haven’t been define as constant on one’s body or if this grows up with time and training or just time. So a scale that measures that should try to keep it simple. However this is not what they do. And there is when I say is a little complicated. Can be explain? Yes, but that doesn’t mean is any less weird. __________________

2013-03-28, 19:49	Link #265
Sansker Manus ad Ferrum Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Costa Rica Age: 33	I allow my "suspension of disbelief" kicks in, but if something doesn't make sense then doesn't make sense. I will call that to be confusing. __________________

2013-03-28, 19:50	Link #266
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Again, it's not confusing at all. They flat out explain how stuff works I think you're being obtuse just for the sake of being argumentative. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2013-03-28, 19:53	Link #268
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	It was a beautiful and natural process. XP But, no, I was talking about how in the sound stages that hers and Rein's Linker Cores had been fused and using that fusion was how Rein Zwei was born. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2013-03-28, 20:00	Link #270
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Neither of you are wrong; Nanya's just remarking on how the linker core fusion was necessary to create Rein. __________________

2013-03-28, 19:40	Link #261
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Think of a spell's rank as its weight, and a mage's rank as their lifting strength. I can lift a sword, but swords are heavy, and I wouldn't be able to swing it very well. My rank isn't enough to easily handle the rank of the sword. Swordsmen are much stronger, and able to use the same weapon much easier. Their rank is high enough that using the sword is easy for them. By the same token, just because Hayate is the mightiest mage in the world, that doesn't mean she can easily cast the mighiest of spells. It just means that she's CAPABLE of casting them. No one else has the ability to even TRY. She ought to be handling lesser spells with trivial ease, but when StrikerS came around, Tsuzuki decided to go with "big power means clumsy handling". Previous to that time, the only stated difficulty Hayate had with her power was getting an Armed Device strong enough to survive being used as a channel.

2013-03-28, 19:58	Link #269
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Huh, I remember that differently. Which one's we talking about again? Oh, and on Hayate, it's not that casting spells is impossible for her, it's just that her long-range (and I mean kilometer level long-range) accuracy and casting speed takes a bit of a hit. She does just fine in the first episode all by her lonesome.

2013-03-28, 20:02	Link #271
Nanya01 Left for TFF Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Frozen Hell of the North Age: 41	Here, just after Rein's dream of Reinforce and the Wolkenritter in the past... Hayate: Rein’s dreams, you say? Mariel: Before it seems she was having normal dreams but this time… Hayate: It might be the same left over memories I experienced long ago. My linker core is melded with the original Reinforce, and Rein’s linker core is born from my own core so... Mariel: You’re saying that the memories and emotions have been left behind? That sounds like an occult/supernatural/unnatural phenomena to me. Hayate: Well, I am pretty unnatural myself. It was a Lost Logia after all. Vita practically hated Reinforce and the other knights in the past. __________________ My fics Due to certain things, I am not here, find me over on TFF.

2013-03-28, 20:38	Link #272
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Ah, that one. That's a case of "correlation doesn't equal causation." Reinforce knew Hayate would create a new unison device (she promised, after all) and knowing this pre-programmed a message to her core. It was a conscious act on Reinforce's part, but Hayate creating Zwei was completely her choice as well, right down to her functions and appearance. From the A's sound stage 3: Hayate: Yeah, but to be frank I felt that I should make it myself from the start. I'm thinking of getting help from Yuuno-kun and Mari-san to start designing but it's really difficult. Shamal: So you're thinking about a unison device after all? Hayate: Mid's AI are so unaffectionate, and I want the storage to be in the shape of a book. When I think about it, a master program doesn't sound too bad. A child who inherits Reinforce's name should be harmonizing. Something I have to make with my own hands. Viita: Yeah. Signum: We wait with joy at the arrival of a new companion who shall protect you with us. Shamal: Until then, we'll just have to make do with the standard issue devices. Hayate: I'll do my best. Viita: If Hayate's going to make her, I'd like her to be a lot younger looking than me. Hey Hayate, will you make like that? Hayate: Oh, I'm still not sure. I haven't given any thought to what she'll look like yet. Shamal: Well when she'll finally created, there'll be no doubt that she'll be the youngest member of our family. Last edited by Keroko; 2013-03-28 at 20:52.

2013-03-28, 21:06	Link #273
Kaijo Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, in a house dropped on an ugly, old woman.	To be fair, this is how the series skirted with the issue of one woman getting another pregnant and giving birth. I mean, if you wanna look at the subtext. Rein has Reinforce's mismatched stocking and Hayate's hair cross. So while it was technically Hayate's choice, we also knew it was going to happen. Nanoha probably has the only instance of two women "fathering" a child, yet not actually be romantically attached. Although Reinforce did spend some time inside Hayate... /shot

2013-03-28, 21:26	Link #274
*CrowKenobi* One PUNCH! Administrator Join Date: Dec 2005	Before this thread gets even more off track, can we please move the current discussion to the Magic and Technology of MGLN thread?

2013-03-29, 10:00	Link #275
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	When I saw the thread title, I thot "StrikerS would make a terrible compilation movie." And then I saw ORIGINAL WRITING. DAMN IT SEVEN ARCS, YOU BETTER HAVE SHINBO WORKING ON THIS PROJECT!! OR ELSE THIS WILL BE DOG DAYS 03!! __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2013-03-29, 10:57	Link #277
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Or worse ...it could be a gasp NANOHA DOG DAYS CROSSOVER! oOo! __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2013-03-29, 11:06	Link #279
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Three hours of Nanoha, Fate and that Caro-expied puppy princess doing nothing more than cute fluff xDU __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2013-03-29, 11:13	Link #280
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	People, please, we already have Nanoha: Dog Days style. Vivid. It even has the exploding clothes.