General Discussion on the Shichibukai [Manga]

[james0246]

Originally Posted by junte86

the point of luffy being thorwn to level 5 was it was supposed to be his deathbed. no one expected luffy to live so magellan just wanted to put him away someplace..

All the pirates on Level 6 are meant to die. They are never supposed to see the light of day again, unless they are being executed. So, Magellan should ahve simply placed Luffy with the rest of the like minded inmates.

[junte86]

But Luffy's case is special all of the pirates in level 6 had a life or death sentence so for the death sentenced one they would be kept at level 6 and than transfered to their execution sites or whatever but Luffy was supposed to die in few hours there were no point in putting him in level 6 hell he could have been put into level 1 and could have been monitored...

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by JINBEI

Yo blackbeard D Kuma how did you feel about seeing Luffy being sent to Level 5, while Crocodile is on level six?

I feel more or less the same way as james and junte86. Luffy's actions have caused the World Government a great deal of turmoil, and based on those actions he seems eligible to be placed on Level 6. His notoriety isn't as high as the pirate captives being held on Level 6 (considering how he is only a rookie pirate with very little experience), so it is that deficiency that is preventing him from being placed there. With that being said, I guess Level 5 does seem appropriate, since Luffy is only a "Supernova", and we know that the only things the supernovas are lacking in is strong notoriety and experience.

As for Crocodile being on Level 6, that serves as yet another indication that he is still in the top tier of the One Piece Universe. Him being an ex-shichibukai, a sand logia user, and having almost succeeded with his ingenious plan in Alabasta to take it over and acquire the pluton weapon through trickery and manipulation, certainly deem him worthy of being one of the "monsters" that the World Government wants to have erased from history. Such a floor is so appropriate to imprison one of the story's biggest bastards yet.

[james0246]

^Addmittedly, they could have simply place Crocodile on the 6th Level due less to the fact that he rebeled against the government and more due to the fact that knew about Pluton, and presumably, the existence of other super weapons. So, his placement would be less due to his strength, and more due to his knowledge.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by james0246

^Addmittedly, they could have simply place Crocodile on the 6th Level due less to the fact that he rebeled against the government and more due to the fact that knew about Pluton, and presumably, the existence of other super weapons. So, his placement would be less due to his strength, and more due to his knowledge.

That is certainly possible. It's just that I think it's safe to assume that Level 6 has no weak prisoners. Ace, Jimbei, Shiryuu, and Crocodile, being held captive there does seem to prove this assumption correct.

[james0246]

^I wasn't really talking about strength, rather I was talking about knowledge. Presumably, Robin could have been put on the 6th Level simply due to her knowledge of the Lost Century (something that the WG is willing to kill complete innocences in order to protect).

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by james0246

Sorry, I am not Blackbeard , but:

Considering the fact that all of Luffy's "crimes" have been covered by the government, I have no idea why he wasn't assigned to the 6th Level. I assume is simply because he hasn't reached the noteriety of the other pirates, but, even still, wouldn't you place a pirate that destroyed one of your main bases on Level 6? Honestly, it feels a little bit like plot contrivance, just to keep Luffy apart from Ace.

Considering Luffy's crimes aren't really all that, compared to the cruel acts Crocodile has put fourth, I think Luffy and level 5 was the right place, at this point in the story. Well of course after this Arc is all said and done, Luffy will be deemed Level six statues worth. IMO

Originally Posted by junte86

the point of luffy being thorwn to level 5 was it was supposed to be his deathbed. no one expected luffy to live so Magellan just wanted to put him away someplace..

If that was the case, wouldn't Magellan, place Luffy in a cell somewhere on the 4th level, it was the level they where fighting on?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by JINBEI

Considering Luffy's crimes aren't really all that, compared to the cruel acts Crocodile has put fourth, I think Luffy and level 5 was the right place, at this point in the story. Well of course after this Arc is all said and done, Luffy will be deemed Level six statues worth. IMO

LOL, The cruel acts of Crocodile? I certainly do not know much about his past pre-Alabasta, but just the Alabasta affair is not sufficient to place Crocodile in Level 6 (Dragon has conquered 100s of islands, Crocodile didn't even conquer the one island in which he was the most powerful). Luffy dfeated a 1000+ marine soldiers, decimated the CP9 organization, instigated the destruction of Enies Lobby (the seat of Justice in the Marine World), defeated 2 Shichibukai, performed what Kizaru called an unforgivable crime by hitting a Tenryubito and then escaping, and has now become the first person to have succesfully broken into what is considered the impenetrable fortress of Impel Down. Added to that, almost every single one of his crimes have been covered up by the government, and, the WG should assume that Luffy has knowledge, gained from Robin, that could implicate the WG in some grand 1000 year long conspiracy. There is literally no reason why Luffy should have not been placed on the 6th Level...besides plot contrivance.

That being said, you are correct, after this arc, Luffy will always be placed on the 6th Level...too bad we will probably never see Impel Down again after this arc is over.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by james0246

LOL, The cruel acts of Crocodile? I certainly do not know much about his past pre-Alabasta, but just the Alabasta affair is not sufficient to place Crocodile in Level 6

If what you say is true, he wouldn't be there.

(Dragon has conquered 100s of islands, Crocodile didn't even conquer the one island in which he was the most powerful). Luffy dfeated a 1000+ marine soldiers, decimated the CP9 organization, instigated the destruction of Enies Lobby (the seat of Justice in the Marine World), defeated 2 Shichibukai, performed what Kizaru called an unforgivable crime by hitting a Tenryubito and then escaping, and has now become the first person to have succesfully broken into what is considered the impenetrable fortress of Impel Down. Added to that, almost every single one of his crimes have been covered up by the government, and, the WG should assume that Luffy has knowledge, gained from Robin, that could implicate the WG in some grand 1000 year long conspiracy. There is literally no reason why Luffy should have not been placed on the 6th Level...besides plot contrivance.

Crocodile is a (former) Shichibukai, made a fool out of the WG, was about to nuke Alabasta, had a massive secret criminal organization, right under the WG nose for who knows how long, protected and hid Nico Robin from the WG for who knows how long, & Pluton sh8t the WG kills millions over, all while being a hero in the WG eyes, and worst of all causing a rift to form in the balance of the 3 Great Powers of the world. Crocodile is just more dangerous, then Luffy overall, while Luffy is just idiot with strength, Crocodile is a calculating bastard with strength.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by JINBEI

If what you say is true, he wouldn't be there.

Actually, yes, that is probably true. If Crocodile hadn't had the title of Shichibukai, and then we saw that he was placed in Level 6, we would question why he was there at all. In fact, the only real reason we still consider him to be powerful is due to the fact that he was a Shichibukai (I have even seen people argue that Crocodile is more powerful than Enel simply because Crocodile was a Shichibukai), and he was the first real Big Bad shown in the series. The age of Crocodile is long over; this is the age of Whitebeard, Aokiji/Kizaru, and Blackbeard.

Originally Posted by JINBEI

Crocodile is a (former) Shichibukai, made a fool out of the WG, was about to nuke Alabasta, had a massive secret criminal organization, right under the WG nose for who knows how long, protected and hid Nico Robin from the WG for who knows how long, & Pluton sh8t the WG kills millions over, all while being a hero in the WG eyes, and worst of all causing a rift to form in the balance of the 3 Great Powers of the world. Crocodile is just more dangerous, then Luffy overall, while Luffy is just idiot with strength, Crocodile is a calculating bastard with strength.

Besides the overall intelligence difference, as well as the title, the crimes of Crocodile and Luffy are not that dissimilar. Both know of Pluton (in fact Luffy knows of other equally powerful weapons); Both sheltered Robin (Luffy even fought to defend her); both were the perpetrators of a major military fiasco (Crocodile in Alabasta and Luffy in Enies Lobby (in fact, Luffy succeed were Crocodile failed); Crocodiles fall caused the rift, but Luffy was the one who pushed him (and then Luffy's actions were covered up else the WG disgrace be known by all).

Added to that, even if it was truly Crocodile's status that placed him Level 6, then the automatic counter to that is the fact that Luffy has defeated 2 Shichibukai, and has escaped the clutches of another twice. And, he intentionally hurt a Tenryubito which caused a freaking Admiral to stop preparing for a war with the strongest man alive just to confront Luffy.

Level 6 is for those prisoners that either performed atrocious deeds or people who are too inconvient for the WG to see living. Everything Luffy has done on the Grand Line has been a direct albeit unintentional attack against the WG, and when you add the fact that he is the brother of Ace (who is in Level 6) and the son of Dragon (which may or may not be known), Luffy becomes the very epitome of a person the WG would desire to be placed in Level 6.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by james0246

Actually, yes, that is probably true. If Crocodile hadn't had the title of Shichibukai, and then we saw that he was placed in Level 6, we would question why he was there at all. In fact, the only real reason we still consider him to be powerful is due to the fact that he was a Shichibukai (I have even seen people argue that Crocodile is more powerful than Enel simply because Crocodile was a Shichibukai), and he was the first real Big Bad shown in the series. The age of Crocodile is long over; this is the age of Whitebeard, Aokiji/Kizaru, and Blackbeard.

I agree with what you're saying, since it is very true. I just defend Crocodile from the people that tend to greatly underestimate him just because he's been defeated already. Some of the other warlords are inevitably going to fall as well (Doflamingo, Mihawk, Blackbeard), so are people going to put them down as well when that happens? It's a pretty silly reason to look down on a character, I feel. Everybody's turn will come at some point.

As for Enel being weaker than Crocodile, yeah I'm not sure if I can agree with that. Enel is more than powerful enough to be one of the warlords. He just happened to encounter an opponent that was his worst possible match-up (Luffy).

I also agree that the age of Crocodile is long over. He had his turn to shine already, so it's only fair that the other warlords get their spotlight and development as the story progresses. Not to say that Crocodile isn't going to come back into the story, but if he does, he won't play a role as significant as he did in Alabasta.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I agree with what you're saying, since it is very true. I just defend Crocodile from the people that tend to greatly underestimate him just because he's been defeated already. Some of the other warlords are inevitably going to fall as well (Doflamingo, Mihawk, Blackbeard), so are people going to put them down as well when that happens? It's a pretty silly reason to look down on a character, I feel. Everybody's turn will come at some point.

I agree with you here. Of all the opponents that Luffy has fought, only the Shichibukai have ever KO'd him in a fight, so they deserve mucho respect for that. It is only when that respect turns into to fanatacism (not that anyone has done that today), that the conversation degenerates.

To put it another way, I have already seen what Crocodile can do, now I want to see what the other Shichibukai have to offer.

[junte86]

actually about the fight between Enel and Croc I do find Enel having the upperhand but I do not think It will be 100% win for Enel.. it is just that Enel never really fought a hard battle..
his power was just too strong he never had a real challenge and I think the fight between logias are all just hard to predict since its one piece world (luffy's rubber not melting.. and well Oda stated in SBS there are many(debateable) people who are stonger than Enel..

But anyway I do agree since I like croc I want him to shine and all but I will just wait and have to see about that.. although I hope hi will have a bigger role.. after all Oda did mentioned him in his interview and such..

And since One piece aims to have more than 100 of volumes I wonder how the pluton and other characters will have a role in this story...

oh and I just hope this haki things doesnt turn out to be the solution for everything ( I just hate Haki fainting weak.. peopel this way.. Whitbeared of shanks could defeat million of weak marines...)

[C.A.]

Haki is not a solution, its an obstacle. One's Haki is an obstacle to another person's will.

Instead of creating one sided fights, Haki has brought another level into the fights.

[junte86]

I hope thats true but since we do not have much info about Haki we have yet to see its role..
at least in South Korea and Japan they are some criticism about Haki.. injuring Logia part was fine but the way shanks and Silver used it.(ANd for Shanks he knocked out WB's pirate... although they were newbies or something those are the pirates who made through the new world..)

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by james0246

this is the age of Whitebeard, Aokiji/Kizaru, and Blackbeard.

It is ONLY the Age of Whitebeard.

*Q's in the Epic music.*

yeah you guys know who's side I'm on when it comes down to this war.

Edit:Oh and James I agree with a lot of what you said, but Croc is a level six threat, overall more dangerous then Luffy, which he proved, and the title of Shichibukai don't make the Pirate its the Pirate who makes the title.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Booooooooooooo! Come on JINBEI! You need to come to your senses and side with the World Government. Whitebeard's time is up. His era of glory has expired. The ones who will rise to power are in my signature.

[james0246]

^And Blackbeard's reign will be short, but lively .

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by james0246

^And Blackbeard's reign will be short, but lively .

Perhaps short in One Piece time (not even a year has passed since Luffy embarked on his quest), but in our time he's got quite a few years to go until he is stopped (considering the manga is a little past half way done). Hopefully, we'll get more people joining the Blackbeard bandwagon in due time, once they've realized how much of a failure that decrepit fossil Whitebeard is.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Booooooooooooo! Come on JINBEI! You need to come to your senses and side with the World Government. Whitebeard's time is up. His era of glory has expired. The ones who will rise to power are in my signature.

The deepest circle of hell is reserved for betrayers and mutineers, Blackbeard D Kuma.
I'm sure Whitebeard will teach Teach that soon enough.