The Mohammed Editoral Cartoons

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Shay

A religion that approves of the killing of innocents and promises 72 of the purest virgins for suicide bombers is just bizarre to me. You're apparently going to be rewarded for implementing acts of evil?

Are you sure the religion approves of the killing of the innocents (the second part is just a complement to the inaccuracy of the first part)?

I am from the same religion. And the same religion gives one of the highest importance to the protection of other's rights.

Bin Ladin and etc. represents Muslims/Islam as much as Hitler represents the Christians/Christianity.

[Shay]

Originally Posted by Illuyankas

Depends on your definition of evil - consider how much stuff in the bible advocates killing people who offend your god, your children who disrespect you, and people who wear more than two different types of fabric. It's OK then, cause it's in the bible. Every Middle Eastern religion has allowances for killing infidels written in to it's holy texts, and these people are exploiting it.

My definition of Evil is killing innocent people. Like kidnapping and murdering a female aid worker perhaps.

Now don't get me wrong, I know the bastards who killed, Margaret Hassan, or Ken Bigley etc are pure evil extremists and they do not represent the majority of the Muslim peoples. But I don't understand how they can hide behind their religion and say what they do is just and holy. It's bullshit! I just don't understand...

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Are you sure the religion approves of the killing of the innocents (the second part is just a complement to the inaccuracy of the first part)?

I am from the same religion. And the same religion gives one of the highest importance to the protection of other's rights.

Bin Ladin and etc. represents Muslims/Islam as much as Hitler represents the Christians/Christianity.

Well that's good to hear. However with the news footage I see everyday it's getting kinda hard to beli8ve.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Shay

My definition of Evil is killing innocent people. Like kidnapping and murdering a female aid worker perhaps.

Now don't get me wrong, I know the bastards who killed, Margaret Hassan, or Ken Bigley etc are pure evil extremists and they do not represent the majority of the Muslim peoples. But I don't understand how they can hide behind their religion and say what they do is just and holy. It's bullshit! I just don't understand...

It is very easy. Just use the word self-defense (they are killing the innocent civilians on our side - as if a war is going on - therefore we can do the same to them). Brainwash mostly young people and tell them they are going to be awarded on the other side, give a weapon to them, and let them attack. It is not very much different than giving 100$ and a gun to an heroin-addicted person and asking him to kill somebody.

And let me clarify one thing. Understanding Islam is no easy matter. Even the Professor level people, who have spend tens of years on the old language - connection between each part of Quaran, may not reach the same conclusion. So, it is very easy to abuse what is written there. I believe the words to explain this is context based content. If you ignore the context and try to decipher the content, the conclusion you can reach can be very much different than what is actually meant there.


Reaching a solution is not very easy. Unless the majority of Muslim people become well-educated, the problem will continue to be there.

[Komataguri]

Basicly the argument comes down to this.


THe stereotype of millitant extremism offends them, So how do they respond? With extreme millitant actions.


Whoo, Go them, way to get the world in your favor.

[Itachikun]

Im all in all for religion, but sometimes it can get too out of hand, where they literally abuse it. Im 100% serious, in Saudi Arabia, the beginning of the new Pokemon sensation was too much for them to handle, so they used up any excuse to get rid of them, saying that they were created by Jews and *Bla* blah blah. I'm like "WTF, its from Japan, how in Gods name is that even logical".

There was even a stipulation attacking Coca Cola and PEPSI Co, which I find very pathetic. Apparantly with Coca Cola, with its official font, if you flip the Coca Cola backwards, like aloC acoC. APPARANTLY, it reads in Arabic, which says "La Mohammed, La Mekkah" which translates to "No Mohammed, no Mekkah. Interesting no?. While Pepsi, oh this is interesting, is an anygram for "Pay Every Penny to Save Israel". -_- Need I say more.

Im just saying that there are these cases that makes me sick, cause it shows that people can't think for themselves. I love Islam, I respect, and I follow it to death, but this is just too much.

Hopefully things will calm down later and lightning won't strike twice.

Lina: LOL, that is so how I think of the situation too, with the first cartoon.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Komataguri

Basicly the argument comes down to this.


THe stereotype of millitant extremism offends them, So how do they respond? With extreme millitant actions.


Whoo, Go them, way to get the world in your favor.

Just a revision...

The way to express the stereotype of militant extremists offends "not only" the militant extremist that are already there and ready to use their power by using this another excuse "but also" the people who are against militant extremists.

Consider it this way. You know that scorpions are dangerous. Despite the dangers of getting close to them, you go to their nest and try to play with them. However, this play is understood as provocation by them, and they attack you. Now, were you expecting them to not attack you because you were just playing with it and it was just fun for you?

[Mr.Hawq]

And let me clarify one thing. Understanding Islam is no easy matter. Even the Professor level people, who have spend tens of years on the old language - connection between each part of Quaran, may not reach the same conclusion. So, it is very easy to abuse what is written there. I believe the words to explain this is context based content. If you ignore the context and try to decipher the content, the conclusion you can reach can be very much different than what is actually meant there.

Very well said there, my dad always told me that, if you understand and use the words of the Holy Quaran in the wrong way, Its a sin.

Also if you suicide bomb, it really does not mean you will go to heaven. You have to complete the five pillers of islam, that is the ultimate goal of a muslim.

[Shay]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hawq

Also if you suicide bomb, it really does not mean you will go to heaven.

I should hope not.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Consider it this way. You know that scorpions are dangerous. Despite the dangers of getting close to them, you go to their nest and try to play with them. However, this play is understood as provocation by them, and they attack you. Now, were you expecting them to not attack you because you were just playing with it and it was just fun for you?

You'd have a point if the cartoons were spray painted on the side of a mosque. If that were the case, you could bet there would be outrage among non-muslims too. However, they were printed in a secular newspaper in a western country. It's unreasonable to expect such a paper to follow islamic taboos, especially when they run counter to a core ideal in western society, that being free speech.

A more accurate, though still poor, analogy would be; you're doing 65 mph on a road where that's the speed limit. A cop sees this from a parallel road and writes you a ticket for breaking that road's speed limit.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

You'd have a point if the cartoons were spray painted on the side of a mosque. If that were the case, you could bet there would be outrage among non-muslims too. However, they were printed in a secular newspaper in a western country. It's unreasonable to expect such a paper to follow islamic taboos, especially when they run counter to a core ideal in western society, that being free speech.

A more accurate, though still poor, analogy would be; you're doing 65 mph on a road where that's the speed limit. A cop sees this from a parallel road and writes you a ticket for breaking that road's speed limit.

I believe you missed my point. They were made publicly available at a place where people that are targeted by the cartoons live.

And the problem is not about being a taboo as I mentioned earlier. Because if I am not mistaken Prophet has been portrayed many times before in many western countries. Non-muslim people are free to do so as they are not bounded by Islamic traditions (I believe it is not a rule but something used to prevent people going back to early times and use Prophet's illustrations as a means of worshipping since Prophet is only a messenger. So, it can be re-evaluated). And, as far as I know there weren't any problems. But, this time, it has reached to the point of insult.

Originally Posted by Shay

I should hope not.

In Islam, both killing yourself and killing others are big sins.

[triela]

I live in NZ and they were published here, I believe.

[Archuka]

I also feel that the Muslims are SERIOUSLY overreacting here. Fine, be offended, it's understandable, but protest peacefully or draw your own cartoons or whatever. Do not burn embassies! Some have even been killed in clashes between frenzied protesters and the police!

There are many fanatic Christians out there who I think are utterly nuts, but they still haven't killed anyone or destroyed anything even though South Park makes fun of Jesus every week on TV.

People take religion way too seriously. I wish religions would one day dissapear completely because they only cause problems. How many more will have to die or otherwise suffer because of something as silly as religion?

[Hiko Seijuro]

Originally Posted by Archuka

I also feel that the Muslims are SERIOUSLY overreacting here. Fine, be offended, it's understandable, but protest peacefully or draw your own cartoons or whatever. Do not burn embassies! Some have even been killed in clashes between frenzied protesters and the police!

There are many fanatic Christians out there who I think are utterly nuts, but they still haven't killed anyone or destroyed anything even though South Park makes fun of Jesus every week on TV.

People take religion way too seriously. I wish religions would one day dissapear completely because they only cause problems. How many more will have to die or otherwise suffer because of something as silly as religion?

Indeed, that is why you must identify the difference between people representing their religion and those who do not.

[nh1]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Consider it this way. You know that scorpions are dangerous. Despite the dangers of getting close to them, you go to their nest and try to play with them. However, this play is understood as provocation by them, and they attack you. Now, were you expecting them to not attack you because you were just playing with it and it was just fun for you?

Well, you're comparing the demonstrating muslims to scorpions. The opposing side's point is that acting like scorpions (or animals in general) is not/should not be acceptable in a human society.
Like Archuka said, it was insulting and a negative response is expected (from others than muslims as well), but this reaction is going way too far. The islamic fanatics have drawn the spotlights from the cartoonists and upon themselves.

[GundamZZ]

Putting insulting element aside, it's not big deal to display the face of holy figure. Isn't the intention of hiding face is to prevent idol worship. It may sound ironic.

The true believer of any faith would not be affected by idol worship, whether seeing faces or not. I heard from a Farsi friend that there are not two versions of Mohammad's face being drawn. Some westerners actually saw Mohammad in person. The picture of him looked like Negro. There were another picture of him drawn by Arabs. I don't know how it could happen. He looks like Cacausian in their painting. I had some doubt about his explanation, but my research havn't prove it.
I only found this picture.

Spoiler:

[Lina Inverse]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

In Islam, both killing yourself and killing others are big sins.

Really? I seriously doubt that, because they have absolutely no problems doing that all the time - especially (but not only) if the others are non-muslim (most favourite target being the Jews there)

Apparently the people in those really *sick* demonstrations don't know of that rule either when they demand that all Europeans should be eradicated

As someone else already said, they would've all right to be offended if someone had sprayed those onto a mosque (or other muslim installations), but certainly not when they appear in a secular western newspaper which cannot be held to follow the muslim principles.
If they're that easily offended, they could've done their own counter-cartoons, that would've certainly been ok. Bring some stuff about Jesus screwing Maria or whatever. Fine.
But these demonstrations alone already that are crying for blood are definitely *insane*
Going even farther and viciously burning down embassies shows that you want to live up to the image of the typical aggressive muslim terrorist and want to prove it true in every point

[Mr.Hawq]

Siimple the embassies would still be there, if the cartoon images were not even brought up, no riots would even happen. All you can say is that the whole disaster started with the cartoons, and got worse and worse.

Really? I seriously doubt that, because they have absolutely no problems doing that all the time - especially (but not only) if the others are non-muslim (most favourite target being the Jews there)

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/major_sins.htm

here you go, The fact is that it is a major sin to kill yourself.

People take religion way too seriously. I wish religions would one day dissapear completely because they only cause problems. How many more will have to die or otherwise suffer because of something as silly as religion?

people believe in religion, to get their rewards after they die. As we believe we only live just to be observed, the ultimate gift is in Paridise. Without religion, basically you have no faith, no one to depend on, Which would you choose living 50-70 years, and believing that someday you will be reincarnated, or living 50-70 years being a good person, and being rewarded with eternal life, and happiness?

[Shay]

Originally Posted by Mr.Hawq

Siimple the embassies would still be there, if the cartoon images were not even brought up, no riots would even happen. All you can say is that the whole disaster started with the cartoons, and got worse and worse.

Don't you realise how pathetic that sounds? Oh and by the way. Since you haven't actually said yet. Do you approve of such actions?

[Hiko Seijuro]

Originally Posted by Lina Inverse

Really? I seriously doubt that, because they have absolutely no problems doing that all the time - especially (but not only) if the others are non-muslim (most favourite target being the Jews there)

Apparently the people in those really *sick* demonstrations don't know of that rule either when they demand that all Europeans should be eradicated

As someone else already said, they would've all right to be offended if someone had sprayed those onto a mosque (or other muslim installations), but certainly not when they appear in a secular western newspaper which cannot be held to follow the muslim principles.
If they're that easily offended, they could've done their own counter-cartoons, that would've certainly been ok. Bring some stuff about Jesus screwing Maria or whatever. Fine.
But these demonstrations alone already that are crying for blood are definitely *insane*
Going even farther and viciously burning down embassies shows that you want to live up to the image of the typical aggressive muslim terrorist and want to prove it true in every point

I see you have first hand experience concerning islamic terrorism and the arab-israeli conflict please stop mentioning jewish poeple since you obviously have little or no clue, ofcourse this isnt the topic. You seem to have been misdirected for some reason Jesus cant be shown screwing Maria since they are two important holy figures in the Koran. Poeple like you make fine protestors.

[Mr.Hawq]

Since you haven't actually said yet. Do you approve of such actions?

http://www.theonerepublic.com/archiv...rsCartoon.html

well here is a news article that states that both sides are wrong.

Really im going to support this article. In my opinion i think it was quite foolish for the Danish to publicize the article, and then again, Neither should we Kill.

Really if you guys were Muslims you guys would really understand how serious of a matter the cartoons are.