AnimeSuki Forums

metamoquester · 2006-11-19, 06:34

Hi, everyone. I'm new here and i'm itching to share my speculation in our good 'ol 4th hokage here. Ok, i'll now begin..

As we all know, the 4th is a highly reviered shinobi from konoha right? (cuz, he wouldn't be named, "Hokage," if he's just a lame punk) But i think, there's something the author is not telling us.. about the 4th's and his jutsu.

The 4th stated that onced used, his jutsu will have to take the soul of the caster, along with the enemy's.. The caster will have a seal mark appear on his abdomen (just like what happend to sarutobi after sealing orohimaru's arm, and also naruto's tummy) After the seal appears, the caster along with his enemy, dies. So..

Fact #1 - Caster dies when the jutsu is used
Fact #2 - Caster gets a seal mark

Now, here are my questions..

Q: When the kyubi was sealed, who performed the jutsu?
A: The 4th

Q: Did the 4th die?
A: Yes

Q: Did the kyubi died?
A: No

Q: If the caster died, why was the kyubi soul only just "sealed?"
A:

Q: Did naruto the one who performed the jutsu?
A: No (how in the world can he?)

Q: Then why does he have the seal mark?

A:

This has never been brought up in the series. I mean, no one from konoha dared to ask that question, or even curious enough to sniff around naruto's seal mark. All they blabber is that, it's the 4th's legacy jutsu.. the 4th sacrificed himself for konoha.. the author is hiding the 4th's personal info. Now, why is that? Cuz i think... the 4th is, the head of the Akatsuki.

Read the manga and see for yerself how identical their silhouettes are. And, there was a time when hidan asked the true goal of the akatsuki. the leader then explained the groups true goal.. Hidan said that, Konoha people are bunch of heathens. and the leader defended konoha's name in return. The leader even spoke of the, "will of fire" phrase which could only be heard from konoha's local heads. No one outside of konoha would give a damn or even more, "respect" from konoha., if he/she wasn't born there.

So if my speculation was true.. then this is one major twist in naruto. No?

zamme · 2006-11-19, 08:16

Spoiler for Should be Manga-topic:

Mr. Johnny 5 · 2006-11-19, 08:43

The answer is probably just very simple:

- The 4th started a jutsu which would kill himself without exception...
- The 4th sealed the Kyuubi inside someone else (Naruto)
- So the person in which the soul gets sealed gets such a seal mark on its belly.
- Because Naruto didnt preform such a jutsu (how can he...he's a baby) he lived on. Which is also the reason why the Kyuubi didnt die..
- The reason why no one speaks of the 4th and the Kyuubi is because the 3rd Hokage has put some rules not to speak about the incident.
- The villagers are unhappy that the 4th didnt kill the Kyuubi but let him live on inside another boy...which is why Naruto was hated.

=================Kyuubi Incident=============================

Spoiler for Manga, about 4th being the Akatsuki's Leader:

Spoiler for just info about Naruto...no spoilers:

LoOnatick · 2006-11-19, 18:16

Also when Itachi first returned to Konoha. Kakashi asked him why he was here. Itachi's answer - "The 4th's legacy".

Mr. Johnny 5 · 2006-11-19, 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoOnatick

Also when Itachi first returned to Konoha. Kakashi asked him why he was here. Itachi's answer - "The 4th's legacy".

He was behind the 4th's legacy to be more specific...

Half Demon · 2006-11-19, 22:42

Quote:

Q: If the caster died, why was the kyubi soul only just "sealed?"
A:

Because 4th hokage wanted the kyuubi souls to be inside naruto so it could help him in the future and probably wanted kyuubi's power to be under someone's control which could benefit the fire nation in the future. Its inknown why 4th hokage chose naruto and why? What was their realtion?

rasedori · 2006-11-20, 03:07

maybe the 4th is narutos dad and he wanted his child to be praised as a hero, and to protect him.

Mr. Johnny 5 · 2006-11-20, 05:51

It is a fact that the 4th wanted Naruto (whether related or not) to be seen as a hero and made the seal so the Kyuubi Chakra would protect him instead of doing the opposite.

I cant see someone like a hokage (you know their character, devotion, will of fire..) could seal a creature like the Kyuubi into someone just random.

Spoiler for Manga, A Jounin speaking about Naruto:

0TaKu0 · 2006-11-20, 06:09

Quote:

Shiki Fuujin
This justu will summon a Shinigami, the death god in exchange for the user's life.
A jutsu that even Orochimaru didn't know, Yondaime used it to defeat the Kyuubi.

Eight Trigrams Sealing Style
This technique allowed Kyuubi to leak his chakra and fuse with Naruto.

So, whats this trying to say?

That the death god jutsu (Shiki Fuujin) is not a sealing jutsu, BUT it summons a death god who pulls out the SOUL of the opponent.
THEN you must use a type of sealing jutsu to seal the soul that was pulled out of the body, ANY type of sealing Jutsu.

Ok, now for Shiki Fuujin to work there has to be a host who's soul is to be pulled out <(my speculation) this can only indicate one thing, that the Kyubi had a Jinchuriki. Who it could be I don’t know (At one point I thought it could be the AL, but I dont anymore). Though the reason I feel the Kyubi had a Jinchuriki for sure, is because the Mange specifically mentions that the Bijuu is SIGNIFICANTLY weak without a Jinchuriki. The Kyubi was very strong when it was fighting against the 4th, and the Shiki Fuujin was needed. If the Kyubi did not have a Jinchuriki then why the Shiki Fuujin? Why not just use the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style. So the fact that Shiki Fuujin was used, tells me it was used in order to pull the Bijuu out of it's host (Jinchuriki). Any way this is besides the point let me move on.

The 4th not being able to kick the Jinchuriki's ass decided the only way to stop the Jinchuriki/Kyubi was to take the Bijuu out of the Jinkurichi, using the Shiki Fuujin. Then the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style was used to SEAL the Kyubi inside Naruto. So this way no one can lay their hands on the Kyubi again.

Now, we are left with these questions. So what happened to the 4th's soul? It's in the belly of the death god. What happened to the original Jinchuriki? He either died, because when a Bijuu is removed from a Jinchuriki he/she die's, or his/her soul is WITH the 4th's soul inside the belly of the death god locked in eternal combat.

These are all my speculations with fact's from the mange supporting it some what, I could be wrong

.

Mr. Johnny 5 · 2006-11-20, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

So, whats this trying to say?

That the death god jutsu (Shiki Fuujin) is not a sealing jutsu, BUT it summons a death god who pulls out the SOUL of the opponent.
THEN you must use a type of sealing jutsu to seal the soul that was pulled out of the body, ANY type of sealing Jutsu.

Ok, now for Shiki Fuujin to work there has to be a host who's soul is to be pulled out <(my speculation) this can only indicate one thing, that the Kyubi had a Jinchuriki. Who it could be I don’t know (At one point I thought it could be the AL, but I dont anymore). Though the reason I feel the Kyubi had a Jinchuriki for sure, is because the Mange specifically mentions that the Bijuu is SIGNIFICANTLY weak without a Jinchuriki. The Kyubi was very strong when it was fighting against the 4th, and the Shiki Fuujin was needed. If the Kyubi did not have a Jinchuriki then why the Shiki Fuujin? Why not just use the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style. So the fact that Shiki Fuujin was used, tells me it was used in order to pull the Bijuu out of it's host (Jinchuriki). Any way this is besides the point let me move on.

The 4th not being able to kick the Jinchuriki's ass decided the only way to stop the Jinchuriki/Kyubi was to take the Bijuu out of the Jinkurichi, using the Shiki Fuujin. Then the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style was used to SEAL the Kyubi inside Naruto. So this way no one can lay their hands on the Kyubi again.

Now, we are left with these questions. So what happened to the 4th's soul? It's in the belly of the death god. What happened to the original Jinchuriki? He either died, because when a Bijuu is removed from a Jinchuriki he/she die's, or his/her soul is WITH the 4th's soul inside the belly of the death god locked in eternal combat.

These are all my speculations with fact's from the mange supporting it some what, I could be wrong

.

[Bold Part] The Sanbi (3 tails) was weak because it was a stupid creature to begin with....the Sanbi is the only demon we've seen that didnt also even talk...
I think Deidara mentioned that...

According to my translation Deidara's words were: "Because the "Sanbi" lacked a "Jinchuuriki" medium, it was all the weaker .... It lacked a mind to actually control the power, after all"

The Kyuubi clearly has a mind....and even the funky Shukaku...

Even the Shukaku seemed more impressive...then the Sanbi...

Besides the Kyuubi said to Naruto:

"You should be thankful to me...and for the time i was sealed by the fourth hokage" This sound to me that Naruto is his first host...

Also the Kyuubi IS the strongest amoung them...the Bijuu's...

Missilebuster · 2006-11-20, 19:34

why should this be a manga thread, as the 4th being the AL is mere speculation with nothing to back it (and if it turned out to be true it would be a good twist, as there is no reason to suspect it, & u guys would just have scary insight)

MobiuS · 2006-11-20, 21:08

Yondaime is wack. You people need to get off his tip.

Rock Lee is faster than that dude.

metamoquester · 2006-11-23, 10:44

but the 4th's jutsu is absolute. caster and enemy dies after it's performed is absolute. besides.. he never lived to tell, that his jutsu can also do soul transfers.. so there are still some stuff missing. (or being kept secret)

And i don't think naruto is somehow related to yondaime. I mean, he still hasn't shown yondaime traits up until the attack from konoha. he's developing fast alright, but no yondaime characteristics. He's not even fast enough to beat akamaru on a race (lol)

Half Demon · 2006-11-23, 17:47

It doesnt make sense, why would someone make a Jhustsu that would kill him aswell as the oppenents however if u wanna make a jhutsu which is very powerful and rare. You need alot of training since this kills whoever performs and the opppennets but how did the hell Yondaime performed or made that jhutsu without even practicing it and didnt die while making it.

Probably he knew a way that would kill his opponent but not him.

Ero-Senn1n · 2006-11-23, 18:41

The death god may be just like any other summoning but with a special requirement: whoever summons him will be consumed by the death god. In this case the death god just like other summons will fight on the user's side, so the death god can be used for various tasks. Which is logical given that the death god is not a mindless entity but seems to be more like someone who has his own will and thoughts, just like summoned animals. For example Gamabunta, we see that Naruto could not command gamabunta, and not even Jiraiya was in total control over gamabunta. And also the summoned beings have their limits, which could be true for the death god. For example the death god cannot seal the strongest demon in himself, which can be because of the huge chakra or because a demon cannot be permanently removed from the living world (Kyuubi returned to the world many times before). If the permanent seal cannot be done, than Yondaime probably was in trouble and had to make an emergency plan, which involved the temporary sealing of kyuubi, and he chose Naruto for that (as he could not chose himself, because he was going to die for eternity). Then the 3rd hokage had sealed 2 souls + 2 arms or Oro, which is yet another use of the death god, combined with kagebunshin. Then maybe Itachi was afraid of Jiraiya summoning the death god, and probably Jiraiya would have used the death god in a new way, as we know he cannot catch someone fast as Itachi.

MobiuS · 2006-11-23, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half Demon

It doesnt make sense, why would someone make a Jhustsu that would kill him aswell as the oppenents however if u wanna make a jhutsu which is very powerful and rare. You need alot of training since this kills whoever performs and the opppennets but how did the hell Yondaime performed or made that jhutsu without even practicing it and didnt die while making it.

Probably he knew a way that would kill his opponent but not him.

What REALLY doesnt make sense is why people keep speculating over a blonde guy who has been dead since before the show started. At least distribute the love to White Fang and others ... if you are going to be a loser reminising over the past.

Maorio · 2006-11-24, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by metamoquester

Q: When the kyubi was sealed, who performed the jutsu?
A: The 4th

Q: Did the 4th die?
A: Yes

Q: Did the kyubi die?
A: No

Q: If the caster died, why was the kyubi soul only just "sealed?"
A:

Q: Did naruto the one who performed the jutsu?
A: No (how in the world can he?)

Q: Then why does he have the seal mark?

A:

I would see it as the 4th told the death god to seal Kyuubi inside Naruto not as the 4th sealed kyuubi himself. because the seal is also a summoning jutsu (you summon the deathgod to do your bidding and seal peoples souls)

Luminion Lancer · 2006-11-24, 09:35

-For those who are wondering why Yondaime Hokage created an all-powerful jutsu that kill the user here I'll explain. Recall the phrase "Power comes at a price". For every bit of power you gain you must give up something to obtain it, that is after all what makes human being, well, human. Think of it as "Equivalent Exchange" in Full Metal Alchemist. It's simple: a skinny man cannot obtain a stronger, more muscular body, unless he gives up some of his time and energy to obtain them via exercise. The same goes for this series as well. I mean, opening all the 8 gates gives you more power than the Hokage but kill you in the end. Obviously there has to be consequences.

Half Demon · 2006-11-24, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by KatonMakai

-For those who are wondering why Yondaime Hokage created an all-powerful jutsu that kill the user here I'll explain. Recall the phrase "Power comes at a price". For every bit of power you gain you must give up something to obtain it, that is after all what makes human being, well, human. Think of it as "Equivalent Exchange" in Full Metal Alchemist. It's simple: a skinny man cannot obtain a stronger, more muscular body, unless he gives up some of his time and energy to obtain them via exercise. The same goes for this series as well. I mean, opening all the 8 gates gives you more power than the Hokage but kill you in the end. Obviously there has to be consequences.

Thx for great explaination but it seems that MObius LOSer doesnt realize yondaime's importance. he gave naruto KYuubi and saved the village and the best ninja konoha ever had... Drill it in your retarded head mobius

Kurono · 2006-11-24, 15:39

Y'know it could be possible that the 4th shows up after the time he died.
Since his speciality is space/time ninjutsu and sealing jutsu. So a time jump for him might be possible.

2006-11-19, 06:34	Link #1
metamoquester Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006	The 4th Hokage and his legacy jutsu... Hi, everyone. I'm new here and i'm itching to share my speculation in our good 'ol 4th hokage here. Ok, i'll now begin.. As we all know, the 4th is a highly reviered shinobi from konoha right? (cuz, he wouldn't be named, "Hokage," if he's just a lame punk) But i think, there's something the author is not telling us.. about the 4th's and his jutsu. The 4th stated that onced used, his jutsu will have to take the soul of the caster, along with the enemy's.. The caster will have a seal mark appear on his abdomen (just like what happend to sarutobi after sealing orohimaru's arm, and also naruto's tummy) After the seal appears, the caster along with his enemy, dies. So.. Fact #1 - Caster dies when the jutsu is used Fact #2 - Caster gets a seal mark Now, here are my questions.. Q: When the kyubi was sealed, who performed the jutsu? A: The 4th Q: Did the 4th die? A: Yes Q: Did the kyubi died? A: No Q: If the caster died, why was the kyubi soul only just "sealed?" A: Q: Did naruto the one who performed the jutsu? A: No (how in the world can he?) Q: Then why does he have the seal mark? A: This has never been brought up in the series. I mean, no one from konoha dared to ask that question, or even curious enough to sniff around naruto's seal mark. All they blabber is that, it's the 4th's legacy jutsu.. the 4th sacrificed himself for konoha.. the author is hiding the 4th's personal info. Now, why is that? Cuz i think... the 4th is, the head of the Akatsuki. Read the manga and see for yerself how identical their silhouettes are. And, there was a time when hidan asked the true goal of the akatsuki. the leader then explained the groups true goal.. Hidan said that, Konoha people are bunch of heathens. and the leader defended konoha's name in return. The leader even spoke of the, "will of fire" phrase which could only be heard from konoha's local heads. No one outside of konoha would give a damn or even more, "respect" from konoha., if he/she wasn't born there. So if my speculation was true.. then this is one major twist in naruto. No?

2006-11-19, 08:16	Link #2
zamme Wandering Prophet Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Sweden Age: 37	Spoiler for Should be Manga-topic: We dont know for sure how the Deathgod technique works, but apparently the enemy can be sealed within others then the user himself. The 4th can not be the leader of Akatsuki, since he's dead and acknowledged to be so a thousand times by Konoha citizen etc. The only similarity is their hair at a quick glance, but it's not even the same colour. AL probably has a ton of experience, it's not even close to unlikely that he would know about the Will of Fire, and he stated it more as a fact then through respect. 4th being AL has been brought up a kazillion times already, it'ld be a boring and unimaginative continuation of the plot, IMO. I dont doubt that the 4th will be back in flashbacks etc, or may even have a connection to AL or Naruto's heritage, but he's since long gone and wont ever put his feet on the ground other then perhaps through a Tensei jutsu.

2006-11-19, 08:43	Link #3
Mr. Johnny 5 Konoha's ANBU Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 38	The answer is probably just very simple: - The 4th started a jutsu which would kill himself without exception... - The 4th sealed the Kyuubi inside someone else (Naruto) - So the person in which the soul gets sealed gets such a seal mark on its belly. - Because Naruto didnt preform such a jutsu (how can he...he's a baby) he lived on. Which is also the reason why the Kyuubi didnt die.. - The reason why no one speaks of the 4th and the Kyuubi is because the 3rd Hokage has put some rules not to speak about the incident. - The villagers are unhappy that the 4th didnt kill the Kyuubi but let him live on inside another boy...which is why Naruto was hated. =================Kyuubi Incident============================= Spoiler for Manga, about 4th being the Akatsuki's Leader: This not an original thought but that's ok...some think that he is the Akatsuki's Leader but i absolutly dont.. Afterall he had absolutly no reason to become such a person. Not only that it has been said soo many times that he died...saving Konoha. The reason why the 4th is handled with so much secrecy is because if this info is known then Naruto will change instantly. If he knows or would know that he is the son of the 4th he'll behave probably very different. He might become arrogant or think it is fine as it is... Asuma lived his life as a Shinobi very easy...knowing that his father is the Hokage...he probably also received special treatments because of that...for instance...why is he the only jounin in Konoha part of the 12 Guardsmen? Spoiler for just info about Naruto...no spoilers: Now...i wont doubt about it that the 4th is linked to Naruto...since the answers are obvious.. Their appearances, character, sensei's (i'll be back with this subject), 3rd Hokage who has always been protecting Naruto. I think that for example episode 1# insulting the Hokages by doing undecent stuff to the stones... or stealing the scroll of sealing would mean severly punishment or perhaps even exile to any other ninja. He got off very lightly... Now as i mentioned his sensei's.. Hatake Kakashi is his sensei of his team...no coïncidence...he was the student of the 4th Hokage. Jiraiya personally trains ONLY him....no coïncidence...he was the sensei of the 4th Hokage. The 3rd Hokage believed in Naruto...who also believed and made the 4th...4th Hokage...The name "Uzumaki Naruto" is very known to the Sannin...they instantly refer him to the Kyuubi kid...probably because the only other famous Uzumaki was....none other then the 4th... And probably the villagers know his identity and not only knowing that he is the carrier of the Kyuubi. I mean...you have within the village: - (Ex-)Genins, (Ex-)Chuunins, (Ex-) Special Jounins, (Ex-)Jounins - (Ex-)ANBU, (Ex-)Advisors Spoiler for manga groups: (Ex-)12 guardsmen, (Ex-)ANBU Roots Naruto survived...while he is sooo much hated...why? Gaara was hated and he was only attacked (on orders) because he is none then the son of the (Kaze-)Kage. And he was feared unlike Naruto...and also hated...they had every reason to hate Gaara...he kept killing fellow country men for his pleasure or as soon as he was rejected... Naruto is the son of the 4th...it cant be his brother since they would have a gap of 22-24 years...that's highly unlikely. __________________

2006-11-20, 05:51	Link #8
Mr. Johnny 5 Konoha's ANBU Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 38	It is a fact that the 4th wanted Naruto (whether related or not) to be seen as a hero and made the seal so the Kyuubi Chakra would protect him instead of doing the opposite. I cant see someone like a hokage (you know their character, devotion, will of fire..) could seal a creature like the Kyuubi into someone just random. Spoiler for Manga, A Jounin speaking about Naruto: Yamato was suprised that Naruto was able to withstand the Kyuubi's chakra...which was like a poison to any other person. He also talked about Naruto's Chakra strenght which was special...because he didnt die and is able to live without pain directly from the Kyuubi __________________

2006-11-20, 19:34	Link #11
Missilebuster gg, uninstall Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: USA... yay politicians...	why should this be a manga thread, as the 4th being the AL is mere speculation with nothing to back it (and if it turned out to be true it would be a good twist, as there is no reason to suspect it, & u guys would just have scary insight) __________________ "I'm not going there to die. I'm going to find out if I'm really alive." ~Spike Spiegel

2006-11-19, 18:16	Link #4
LoOnatick 1ne Love Join Date: Sep 2006	Also when Itachi first returned to Konoha. Kakashi asked him why he was here. Itachi's answer - "The 4th's legacy".

2006-11-20, 03:07	Link #7
rasedori akatsuki member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: akatsuki cave	maybe the 4th is narutos dad and he wanted his child to be praised as a hero, and to protect him.

2006-11-20, 21:08	Link #12
MobiuS Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Yondaime is wack. You people need to get off his tip. Rock Lee is faster than that dude.

2006-11-23, 10:44	Link #13
metamoquester Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006	but the 4th's jutsu is absolute. caster and enemy dies after it's performed is absolute. besides.. he never lived to tell, that his jutsu can also do soul transfers.. so there are still some stuff missing. (or being kept secret) And i don't think naruto is somehow related to yondaime. I mean, he still hasn't shown yondaime traits up until the attack from konoha. he's developing fast alright, but no yondaime characteristics. He's not even fast enough to beat akamaru on a race (lol)

2006-11-23, 17:47	Link #14
Half Demon Wanted D or A 300,000,000 Join Date: Jul 2006	It doesnt make sense, why would someone make a Jhustsu that would kill him aswell as the oppenents however if u wanna make a jhutsu which is very powerful and rare. You need alot of training since this kills whoever performs and the opppennets but how did the hell Yondaime performed or made that jhutsu without even practicing it and didnt die while making it. Probably he knew a way that would kill his opponent but not him.

2006-11-23, 18:41	Link #15
Ero-Senn1n Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hidden Village of Sake	The death god may be just like any other summoning but with a special requirement: whoever summons him will be consumed by the death god. In this case the death god just like other summons will fight on the user's side, so the death god can be used for various tasks. Which is logical given that the death god is not a mindless entity but seems to be more like someone who has his own will and thoughts, just like summoned animals. For example Gamabunta, we see that Naruto could not command gamabunta, and not even Jiraiya was in total control over gamabunta. And also the summoned beings have their limits, which could be true for the death god. For example the death god cannot seal the strongest demon in himself, which can be because of the huge chakra or because a demon cannot be permanently removed from the living world (Kyuubi returned to the world many times before). If the permanent seal cannot be done, than Yondaime probably was in trouble and had to make an emergency plan, which involved the temporary sealing of kyuubi, and he chose Naruto for that (as he could not chose himself, because he was going to die for eternity). Then the 3rd hokage had sealed 2 souls + 2 arms or Oro, which is yet another use of the death god, combined with kagebunshin. Then maybe Itachi was afraid of Jiraiya summoning the death god, and probably Jiraiya would have used the death god in a new way, as we know he cannot catch someone fast as Itachi.

2006-11-24, 09:35	Link #18
Luminion Lancer Time-diver Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Location is all relative.	... -For those who are wondering why Yondaime Hokage created an all-powerful jutsu that kill the user here I'll explain. Recall the phrase "Power comes at a price". For every bit of power you gain you must give up something to obtain it, that is after all what makes human being, well, human. Think of it as "Equivalent Exchange" in Full Metal Alchemist. It's simple: a skinny man cannot obtain a stronger, more muscular body, unless he gives up some of his time and energy to obtain them via exercise. The same goes for this series as well. I mean, opening all the 8 gates gives you more power than the Hokage but kill you in the end. Obviously there has to be consequences. __________________ -When all else fails, ram them with a force of an 18-wheeler.

2006-11-24, 15:39	Link #20
Kurono Jounin Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sweden Age: 40	Y'know it could be possible that the 4th shows up after the time he died. Since his speciality is space/time ninjutsu and sealing jutsu. So a time jump for him might be possible.