Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[Arkwright]

On the subject of changes between the events in this episode and the novel:

Spoiler for VN version of this ep's events:

When Battler's sin is mentioned, the scene cuts to the meta-world where Meta-Battler asks if his sin is between him and Beatrice.

In the anime, Beatrice in the meta-world says "Six years ago, you and I had not met each other."

In the VN, she makes no such statement. Instead she claims that six years ago, she did not yet exist, and in red that the sin is not between Battler and Beatrice.

I'm unsure whether I should take this as a frivolous change or an important one - there are not many people on the island (if any) who Battler had not met back then. Unless Beatrice is just speaking purely from the perspective of her "witch" self, but even then the anime would have a hard time justifying that change if something in a later episode ended up even looking like it contradicted that statement. The VN's wording is much easier to interpret with the "witch self" explanation.

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by Arkwright

On the subject of changes between the events in this episode and the novel:

Spoiler for VN version of this ep's events:

When Battler's sin is mentioned, the scene cuts to the meta-world where Meta-Battler asks if his sin is between him and Beatrice.

In the anime, Beatrice in the meta-world says "Six years ago, you and I had not met each other."

In the VN, she makes no such statement. Instead she claims that six years ago, she did not yet exist, and in red that the sin is not between Battler and Beatrice.

Actually that's not true. She says both in the VN. She had not yet 'materialized' 6 years ago, and she and Battler only first met when the game began. She says they had no connection prior to that. Of course, it's not in red (just that the sin is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice), but I'm pretty sure what she says in the VN is essentially the same, the Anime just cuts to the chase more with the whole exchange.

Or the whole episode, for that matter...

[ChibiBear]

I just finished the episode, and I just have to say:
... WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?
They just keep adding new demons, and powers, and other stuff... My brain... =.=

[Arkwright]

Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture

Actually that's not true. She says both in the VN. She had not yet 'materialized' 6 years ago, and she and Battler only first met when the game began. She says they had no connection prior to that. Of course, it's not in red (just that the sin is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice), but I'm pretty sure what she says in the VN is essentially the same, the Anime just cuts to the chase more with the whole exchange.

Or the whole episode, for that matter...

Well, I read through that part of the VN after I watched it, and I didn't see it. I'm not saying it's impossible I missed something, but I was looking for that specifically.

Spoiler for specifics:

If I remember correctly, it was stated that no person named Beatrice existed to Battler six years ago. But it was never said "I had not met you," which is a notable difference.

[Akuryou]

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

I just finished the episode, and I just have to say:
... WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!?
They just keep adding new demons, and powers, and other stuff... My brain... =.=

There were no new demons or powers in this episode, though.

[ChibiBear]

I meant that they can now 'delay' deaths. Convenient huh??

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by Arkwright

Well, I read through that part of the VN after I watched it, and I didn't see it. I'm not saying it's impossible I missed something, but I was looking for that specifically.

Huh...well, I just played through that scene again earlier today when I posted the screenshots a few pages back, and I swore that was one of the few points of the episode I felt had pretty much the same meaning. Maybe I was just jumbling them together mentally because to me what she said seemed the same in both versions? Now I'm unsure, but I'm also too lazy to double-check it. In the event that the phrasing was changed, however, it might be significant. Then again, looking at how the rest of the episode played out, I can't say I find it likely Ryukishi had a lot of influence over it...

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

I meant that they can now 'delay' deaths. Convenient huh??

Only if you're Anti-Mystery, though. Otherwise it only has as much significance as the other demons and stakes and goats and everything else magical.

[Arkwright]

Originally Posted by ChibiBear

I meant that they can now 'delay' deaths. Convenient huh??

Remember at the beginning of the third game when Virgilia repaired the broken vase, but it was only temporary until a cat came and broke it again?

Jessica's case is like that.

[ChibiBear]

I'm anti-fantasy, so for me, all the demons and magical stuff are just distractions.
Even though Jessica 'died' outside the house, she was teleported back to the room, so her and George will both end up being found dead where they were asked to go, so to me the teleportation was just a distraction, since they both ended up where they started anyways.
I'm not sure if that made sense...

Huh, I completely forgot about the vase thing

[Rei-Tenshi]

Ok, I just finished watching this episode.

I have to agree that this is definitely a strong candidate for worst adapted episode of the series.

[Crontica]

Ugh. the pole numbers for 10 and 1 are TIED. Pretty sad indeed.

[ChibiBear]

As an anime only viewer, I didn't really mind it, but I guess the VN readers had a reason to dislike it.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Crontica

Ugh. the pole numbers for 10 and 1 are TIED. Pretty sad indeed.

I know, it should be filled with 1s only.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Workworkwork

I know, it should be filled with 1s only.

Okay, I laughed.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

is it me or did George actually looked cool in this ep. xD
2bad they let so much out T^T

[Alair]

They left out Goat-kun. Meh, no biggie. I do mind a bit more that they left out most of the interaction with the parents' group, doubly so since a lot of them have hardly had any real scenes over the course of the series. I don't really blame the animators since the books are fairly large and even without pacing considerations there's no real way you could fit even half of them into a 26 episode series... but it really could have used a lot more space.

For the episode we got, it's decent enough. If anything I'm rather appreciative they cut George and Jessica's fight scenes as briefly as they did - given the animators seem to love their fight scenes I was worried they were going to lavish them and shortchange everything else. The only thing that really has me puzzled is why they didn't have Beatrice make her statements to Battler in red. When the only thing you really trust is a statement in red "Because of your sin, people here and now are dying" is something that really gives you pause and make you wonder what a twelve year old could possibly to do that might lead to this without even remembering it.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

i'm glad they didnt shorten the fights of Jessica and George like the fight of Beato vs. Virgillia
....poor Battler T^T...

[Archon_Wing]

The conclusion to the fights... ouch! They were just being played around all along. What a devious combo of Gaap and Ronove! I thought it ended a bit too abruptly but that was ok. Jessica's phone call was pretty disturbing.

The escape scene had a nice little dialogue with Kanon and Shannon, and they seem to have a lot of determination this time around, probably fueled by their lovers' fights. Virgilla losing her cool was pretty funny. But then they run out and suddenly instantly all got splatted. I guess it's adequate, but all feels too fast. And Kyrie surviving long enough to give Battler a call seemed like a stretch. But perhaps if we ignore the magic part... And what's the music during the Siesta killing scene? Sounds pretty good.

The congruatltions part cracked me up. Sounds like Beatrice has been drinking too much.

I don't get the denial part. Even if he's not born of Asumu, he can still be Rudolf's son and thus Kinzo's grandson. In any case, Beatrice seems legitimately sad over this. I'd expect Ange to be a bit more emotional about this-- after all if Battler disappears and it's game over, nothing matters anymore.

Eh... I can't really comment anything else of substance about this episode; so I'm gonna stamp this episode with a 4, somewhere between a 4 and a 5. It's somewhat obvious there's big holes that are cut out in this story, and they seemed to have gone back to the early episode tendency of just listing events A, B, C, D which causes everything to go too fast and lack emotional impact. Basically, they are doing the bare minimum of a narrative which doesn't totally repulse me but just comes off as very lazy and that deserves some points taken off. I certainly hope to see more effort in the next two episodes, because the second season will be at stake here...

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Spoiler for battler's mother:

I think that Battler is actually Kyrie's son, remember that she tought that hers had died? what if her son was actually Battler and was swapped with Asumu's real son (the real Battler) because he was the one who died at birth?

[Fishcaek-Chan]

Originally Posted by Dlanor A. Knox

Spoiler for battler's mother:

I think that Battler is actually Kyrie's son, remember that she tought that hers had died? what if her son was actually Battler and was swapped with Asumu's real son (the real Battler) because he was the one who died at birth?

That isn't really a bad theory, it seems entirely possible if you really think about it. It could even have some sort of wierd conection between Battler's "Horrible sin." The fact that he talked to her last before she died, and that she was the last to die may actually have some significance later on...