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noobarta · 2012-12-12, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hidfe

He would have gotten one from Sun Wukong as well as the other 2 Campione there but the authorities were stolen by Guinevere.

He would have gotten the authority of Lancelot as well but the authority got stolen by Guinevere as well.

The King of the End will probably have all the stolen authorities and after he defeats him he will get them back but this will probably be the end of the story.

And in Vol 13

Spoiler for Vol 13:

Wait...what? Guinevere can steal authorities? I thought she could create stuff like fakes with Grail only, like the fake Minos thing mentioned. bleh....guess gotta read more...

Gahhh really Pandora? You cockblock Godou when he finally gets an authority....? D: Is it cause Circe fell in love with him and she disapproved or something? I've only read as far as volume 8, skipped vol8ch4, and skipped around on some of the volumes.

Phoenix221186 · 2012-12-12, 17:05

i don't think she can steal them .. its the other artifact she has ..
but who made it .. since if i remember correctly its never said who created that circle with swords

but for circe .. why would she stop her :S? i dont get it >.<

willx · 2012-12-12, 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth SpiderDen

At least the other Campiones are not gaining new authorities as well.
It's consistent on that part.
Then again all of the Campiones look like unbeatble badasses and 1 grand schemer (Alec of course), that anymore authorities would make them OP in some aspects....
Then again, they do have to battle Gods and other Campiones on regular basis so being OP is just going to be a little help on the battles...

I love a story were being OP and God-like is just basic for the characters.

Er, actually, Alec is still gaining authorities .. he got the "Labyrinth" by defeating the Minotaur during the course of Vol10..?

EDIT: After checking, it's true that it happened "a while ago" but considering how many gods Godou has been fighting .. vs. Voban who is desperately trying to summon them cause he can't find any to fight...

Reply hazy, ask again later

Phoenix221186 · 2012-12-12, 17:27

that was 6/8( not sure how many years ) years before the main story began ...

zzhk · 2012-12-12, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by willx

Yeah, again I understand not wanting power creep .. heck, my gripe isn't with Godou not getting powers or authorities. I just want the story and plot to remain consistent and believable. I know I know, fiction, fantasy story, suspend disbelief .. blah blah ..

My issue thought process is this: "No matter what crazy rules, setting, etc. you come up with to start .. as long as you remain consistent

How is this inconsistent with Volume 1 when Athena was reduced to a powerless form after being hit by the Stallion?

Has the Stallion ever killed anyone with one hit?

Hidfe · 2012-12-12, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzhk

How is this inconsistent with Volume 1 when Athena was reduced to a powerless form after being hit by the Stallion?

Has the Stallion ever killed anyone with one hit?

Verethragna?

The Sword can not kill but only weaken. Boar and Stallion should be able to if you hit the target.

zzhk · 2012-12-12, 18:31

Verethragna was already exhausted from his fight with Melqart's clubs and Prometheus' flames, not to mention Erica cutting his arm off. And according to Melqart he had to forge the blade to handle Kothar-wa-Kharsis as well in the unseen battle.

Darth SpiderDen · 2012-12-12, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzhk

How is this inconsistent with Volume 1 when Athena was reduced to a powerless form after being hit by the Stallion?

Has the Stallion ever killed anyone with one hit?

Maybe the White Stallion + Ama no Murakumo will give it the abbility to one-shot a God.
It would be nice to see that, since the Boar as already claimed at least two Gods (okay one of them was Ama no Murakumo, but still there were two already claimed by the Boar and one reduced to ectoplasm form so it would be nice to see the strongest weapon on Godous arsenal to actually behave like that)

Mars Mode · 2012-12-12, 20:31

I think what happeed here was because he shifted the focus to the locusts at the last second making the stallion incapable of finishing Melqart for good.

Besides correct me if Im wrong but the astral form has even been used against other Campiones like Luo Hao

willx · 2012-12-12, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzhk

How is this inconsistent with Volume 1 when Athena was reduced to a powerless form after being hit by the Stallion?

Has the Stallion ever killed anyone with one hit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zzhk

Verethragna was already exhausted from his fight with Melqart's clubs and Prometheus' flames, not to mention Erica cutting his arm off. And according to Melqart he had to forge the blade to handle Kothar-wa-Kharsis as well in the unseen battle.

^ I'm not talking about the Stallion 1-shotting someone. I'm talking about the "gods-campione-authorities" system and how it is so readily manipulated in an obvious manner to accomplish the author's desires.

And although I wasn't arguing about the Stallion killing Melqart, I was more irritated that he survived as a floating ball of ectoplasm that could still land a hit .. let alone how that ties into his authorities as a God. And if we're going to talk about exhaustion, he was both slashed by the sword and fighting the Boar for a while as well.

Anyways, I still love Campione! very much, but I have no illusions about its perfection. Part of my love for this series and story is the world-building, I just feel a little irked about the author not being entirely "fair" to the world he himself created. The worlds and characters in good stories are living things that tend to resist when an author tries to arbitrarily change things for their own convenience..

Outlook remains positive

zzhk · 2012-12-12, 23:16

I don't think Melqart broke a sweat against the Boar actually, he is the prototype for Heracles after all.

As for his clubs, they were already summoned and out in the air, so having enough energy to launch a final attack isn't implausible. Besides, getting killed afterwards doesn't really matter as long as you can revive -- as evidenced by the double-KO with Verethragna. The point is, Godou simply has not dealt enough damage to Melqart to slay him.

Ultimately, since this is a prequel, it's already set in stone that Godou was not going to defeat Melqart completely to gain an authority.

ReaperxKingx · 2012-12-12, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by willx

^ I'm not talking about the Stallion 1-shotting someone. I'm talking about the "gods-campione-authorities" system and how it is so readily manipulated in an obvious manner to accomplish the author's desires.

And although I wasn't arguing about the Stallion killing Melqart, I was more irritated that he survived as a floating ball of ectoplasm that could still land a hit .. let alone how that ties into his authorities as a God. And if we're going to talk about exhaustion, he was both slashed by the sword and fighting the Boar for a while as well.

Anyways, I still love Campione! very much, but I have no illusions about its perfection. Part of my love for this series and story is the world-building, I just feel a little irked about the author not being entirely "fair" to the world he himself created. The worlds and characters in good stories are living things that tend to resist when an author tries to arbitrarily change things for their own convenience..

Outlook remains positive

Well I see your frustration, but Campione has Gods with many abilities. Its not surprising that Melqart survive by becoming ectoplasm. The author is going somewhere with this most likely, we may see a rematch between the more experience Godou and the recovered Ancient King. This would make maybe 3 future fights coming up, the Campione Killer God, the rematch with Verethragna, and then Melqart.

willx · 2012-12-12, 23:24

^ Yep, I understand all of this -- I just feel like "Jou-chan" just isn't being fair to his own world. But of course, that's my opinion, I'm just backing up my opinion with story references. I couldn't care less whether Godou actually got more powers. I'm not a fan of power-creep nor do I live vicariously through him..

Outcome is optimistic

bakapervert · 2012-12-13, 09:28

Maybe its not Melqart that is strange to survive like that, but other god that can die so easily. Like Sun Wukong for example, if I remember right one of the knowledge Godou used for the sword is that Sunwukong is tossed into cauldron and burned for many days but didn't die. But in vol 7 Sunwukong just die when he got burned by JPS. I think if Jou-chan want, he can simply make Sunwukong survived by using that piece of story. Guess its depend on the author whether the god will die or not.

breno.m.fis · 2012-12-13, 09:30

Well, Godou not usurping new authorities can always be supported by the fact that others Campiones have taken their second authorities years after the first. What we're reading now is the first year of the new Campione only when he is perfecting his control over his powers and about being a [King]. Having said that, it is also true that a protagonist in a story like this has to eventually grow, both mentally and in strength, at least in order to balance with the world (Gods and Campiones). As much as the author wants to avoid Godou becoming too powerful he'll have to make some really significant power increase over the next volumes, otherwise he risks falling into the situation where a much weaker protagonist practically exhausted their resources and still defeat his antagonist with something that looks more like pure luck.

Grave_digger · 2012-12-13, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakapervert

Maybe its not Melqart that is strange to survive like that, but other god that can die so easily. Like Sun Wukong for example, if I remember right one of the knowledge Godou used for the sword is that Sunwukong is tossed into cauldron and burned for many days but didn't die. But in vol 7 Sunwukong just die when he got burned by JPS. I think if Jou-chan want, he can simply make Sunwukong survived by using that piece of story. Guess its depend on the author whether the god will die or not.

It's not like that !!! remember the god with [steel] atribute weakness is the extremely intense heat which can melt the metal.the heat from the cauldron probably didn't hot enough to melt sun wu kong( beside he is handcuffed so he cannot defend).

From the latest chapter godou have four enemies waiting for rematch. melqart,voban,doni, and athena ( she reborn in the volume 10 right ?)

erdii · 2012-12-13, 12:30

well rereading some Light novels can be interesting. ı was rereading Toaru majutsu no index and saw a spell named "Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani". an interesting coincidence

Mars Mode · 2012-12-13, 14:06

The sword cannot kill Gods, it can disable them, strip them of their control over their autorities, but it cannot kill. Hence Godou has always considered the Boar and the Stallion as his Aces. And in some ocations the Goat.

Spoiler for The birth of Steel Gods:

azziz · 2012-12-13, 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mars Mode

The sword cannot kill Gods, it can disable them, strip them of their control over their autorities, but it cannot kill. Hence Godou has always considered the Boar and the Stallion as his Aces. And in some ocations the Goat.

Spoiler for The birth of Steel Gods:

i think in campione universe,promotheus's fire mean magic;"magic" is prometheus gift to mankind.

Mars Mode · 2012-12-13, 17:19

Well if we go by the prologue of Vol 1 magic was a gift from pandora and possibly Epithemeus. If the magicians are imitations of the Campione as the theory implies.

2012-12-12, 17:05	Link #5442
Phoenix221186 Butt Theory Creator xD Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: california	i don't think she can steal them .. its the other artifact she has .. but who made it .. since if i remember correctly its never said who created that circle with swords but for circe .. why would she stop her :S? i dont get it >.< __________________ I Hate Loneliness, But It Loves Me Last edited by Phoenix221186; 2012-12-12 at 17:22.

2012-12-12, 17:27	Link #5444
Phoenix221186 Butt Theory Creator xD Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: california	that was 6/8( not sure how many years ) years before the main story began ... __________________ I Hate Loneliness, But It Loves Me

2012-12-12, 18:31	Link #5447
zzhk Summary Machine Join Date: Apr 2011	Verethragna was already exhausted from his fight with Melqart's clubs and Prometheus' flames, not to mention Erica cutting his arm off. And according to Melqart he had to forge the blade to handle Kothar-wa-Kharsis as well in the unseen battle. __________________ Light Novel Translations C3 - Cube x Cursed x Curious Chronicle Legion Leviathan of the Covenant Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance

2012-12-12, 23:16	Link #5451
zzhk Summary Machine Join Date: Apr 2011	I don't think Melqart broke a sweat against the Boar actually, he is the prototype for Heracles after all. As for his clubs, they were already summoned and out in the air, so having enough energy to launch a final attack isn't implausible. Besides, getting killed afterwards doesn't really matter as long as you can revive -- as evidenced by the double-KO with Verethragna. The point is, Godou simply has not dealt enough damage to Melqart to slay him. Ultimately, since this is a prequel, it's already set in stone that Godou was not going to defeat Melqart completely to gain an authority. __________________ Light Novel Translations C3 - Cube x Cursed x Curious Chronicle Legion Leviathan of the Covenant Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance

2012-12-13, 12:30	Link #5457
erdii Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Turkey	well rereading some Light novels can be interesting. ı was rereading Toaru majutsu no index and saw a spell named "Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani". an interesting coincidence __________________

2012-12-12, 20:31	Link #5449
Mars Mode Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	I think what happeed here was because he shifted the focus to the locusts at the last second making the stallion incapable of finishing Melqart for good. Besides correct me if Im wrong but the astral form has even been used against other Campiones like Luo Hao

2012-12-12, 23:24	Link #5453
willx Nyaaan~~ Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	^ Yep, I understand all of this -- I just feel like "Jou-chan" just isn't being fair to his own world. But of course, that's my opinion, I'm just backing up my opinion with story references. I couldn't care less whether Godou actually got more powers. I'm not a fan of power-creep nor do I live vicariously through him.. Outcome is optimistic

2012-12-13, 09:28	Link #5454
bakapervert A pervert Join Date: Oct 2012	Maybe its not Melqart that is strange to survive like that, but other god that can die so easily. Like Sun Wukong for example, if I remember right one of the knowledge Godou used for the sword is that Sunwukong is tossed into cauldron and burned for many days but didn't die. But in vol 7 Sunwukong just die when he got burned by JPS. I think if Jou-chan want, he can simply make Sunwukong survived by using that piece of story. Guess its depend on the author whether the god will die or not.

2012-12-13, 09:30	Link #5455
breno.m.fis Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Somewhere beneath the sky. Age: 39	Well, Godou not usurping new authorities can always be supported by the fact that others Campiones have taken their second authorities years after the first. What we're reading now is the first year of the new Campione only when he is perfecting his control over his powers and about being a [King]. Having said that, it is also true that a protagonist in a story like this has to eventually grow, both mentally and in strength, at least in order to balance with the world (Gods and Campiones). As much as the author wants to avoid Godou becoming too powerful he'll have to make some really significant power increase over the next volumes, otherwise he risks falling into the situation where a much weaker protagonist practically exhausted their resources and still defeat his antagonist with something that looks more like pure luck.

2012-12-13, 14:06	Link #5458
Mars Mode Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	The sword cannot kill Gods, it can disable them, strip them of their control over their autorities, but it cannot kill. Hence Godou has always considered the Boar and the Stallion as his Aces. And in some ocations the Goat. Spoiler for The birth of Steel Gods: By the way seeing as fire is essential in the creation of swords, would that make any god who gave fire to humanity the father of steel gods, like say Prometheus. Could any hero who interacts with him be the first steel god. And would that make campiones and steel gods kind of cousins. Nah I am deluding myself.

2012-12-13, 17:19	Link #5460
Mars Mode Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	Well if we go by the prologue of Vol 1 magic was a gift from pandora and possibly Epithemeus. If the magicians are imitations of the Campione as the theory implies.