2006-04-03, 19:48 | Link #281 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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2006-04-03, 20:15 | Link #282 | |
Two bit encoder
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Age: 39
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Only thing it might struggle with is 1080p (using coreavc) or maybe 720p using FFDShow. At the moment I've underclocked my A64 3400 to less than 1/3 of it's speed (stock is 2.2GHz, now running at 680MHz (fanless FTW)) and my encode of the Gundam 0083 OP averages at ~70% with CoreAVC. As for 1080p; I can just about play Nero's "The Greatest Game" trailer (we seem to be using that as a benchmark these days ) at ~80-90% with the occasional peak that maxes the CPU enough to cause slowdown (it soon recovers, but it's not that bad). I notice that CoreAVC Pro has planned GPU support... I wonder if we will be seeing the awesome efficiency of CoreAVC coupled with the acceleration from ATI or the likes?
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2006-04-04, 06:18 | Link #283 |
Aegisub dev
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 39
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Anyone know how much the optimisations in libavcodec improves performance, and whether there's SMP support on its way in it? If there is, I don't see any reason to switch to CoreAVC, at least for myself.
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2006-04-04, 06:44 | Link #284 | |
Aegisub dev
IT Support
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Florianópolis, Brazil, Pale Blue Dot
Age: 38
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2006-04-04, 07:39 | Link #285 |
Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 37
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http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/cgi-bin/cvs...y=date#dirlist
I've seen a bunch of optimizations in various stuff here over the past months... I dunno how much faster it is in reality, though. As for SMP, you'd have to ask pengvado.
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2006-04-10, 03:24 | Link #286 | |
King of Hosers
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 41
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Then I lawled when I saw myself quoted later in his novel. n_n Truly we have a fresh start with H.264/AVC. Correct implementation of it in now in releases will make things less complicated in the future, which is why you see people like Zero1 getting crazy aggravated about misuse. Continuing to distribute and support compliant files will only cause further implementation of H.264/AVC as time rolls on because there will be an abundance of compliant files to make support for. Rather then a shitload of crazy files which all require their own specific hacks and fixes, which in the end would cause anyone with a sane mind to say "fuck all, we are going with Plan C" which will only support a marginal number of files and set new standards of what can be supported. See it is already all worked out for us with H.264/AVC. You want to make an application to support H.264? Well how much H.264 do you want to support? Just Main Profile encodes, or perhaps also High and Extended? Or something so simple as Baseline (no friggin b-frames even for gods sake!)? Thankfully both ITU and the MPEG group made this standard even more robust then their previous attempts by learning from what happened to their other standards in the past. All we have to do is fucking use it! They already handed it to us on a platter, we just have to use it and try to not fuck it all up and add our own queer shit on the way. |
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2006-04-10, 04:27 | Link #287 | ||
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: somewhere far beyond
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For example, the Blue-Ray specs (or were it the HD DVD ones?) don't mention anything about AAC. They'll use some dolby stuff like DTS EX. So, no support for spec-compliant files either (Although I'd guess that there will be MP4/AAC capable standalone players in the future because of the support of Nero). The idea that widely spread files of a certain type do set a status quo is true, but anime has way too little "market penetration" to achieve that. You could bring that argument when the movie scene had adopted h264, but apparently that's not the case. CU, lamer_de
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2006-04-10, 04:41 | Link #288 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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2006-04-10, 05:12 | Link #289 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 41
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as defined by the ITU and the MPEG group, anyway (maybe supported as streaming thou). HD-DVD are using *.EVO and blu-ray something else. The situation will be like the DVD era, where mpeg2 is supported only via vob container (players that plays mpegiso are not really standard players). I reckon nero will later offer authouring methods for h264 into EVO. So personlly i don't see a point to support mp4 or even any industrial standards. Btw AAC is pretty useless, if you can have dts-ex and dolby whatever (truehd ?). |
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2006-04-10, 06:51 | Link #290 | |
What? I am washed up!
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2006-04-10, 17:48 | Link #291 | ||||||
Two bit encoder
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Age: 39
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People use high profile because it offers increased effeciency at the cost of CPU power. Profiles and levels practically don't exist in a PC environment (or fansubbing) and never will do, because there isn't an upper limit to what can be decoded. PC's are always becoming faster, so there is no need to cripple an encode for "compatability" (at worst you will isolate some leechers who invariably are due an upgrade). If you are encoding for hardware devices though, you have constrained paramaters that you should stick to, to ensure a file will be playable. Quote:
Basically, (as you know) people encode fansubs for PC users, which does not have a profile or level since it's impossible to grade them due to how much the abilities of two computers can differ. Encoding for a hardware player like a PSP or iPod is different, since you have a set processor speed and platform. Set capabilities. These capabilities are "graded" and deemed able to decode a given profile and level combination. Any encode that conforms to this given profile or level, will be decodable on that hardware device. If you encode things how you want, disregarding profiles and levels, one encode of yours might play (if it has low motion and low complexity) but another encode using the same settings might push the hardware too far and be undecodable in real time. Profiles and levels eliminate this "it might" area as far as hardware is concerned. Again, with PCs it's a grey area. It would make trouble shooting a whole lot easier though, if for instance you knew what the CPU was capable of. "Oh you have a Duron 750 which is capable of High@L3, you can't play X group's encode because it is a little more complex at High@L3.1. You need a minimum Duron 900 or P3 1.2GHz to decode High@L3.1" Heh, ideal worlds eh? Well I guess if a system like that ever existed that a group could choose the minimum CPU speed they are willing to support, and encode to those levels, "Our encodes are High@L3, therefore the minimum CPU you can use to decode this is a Duron 650" It would sure be nicer than, "You can decode group A's encode on a P3 1GHz, but then again a Duron 750 might do" or "Group B's encode stutters on my P3 1.2GHz!". Ah well... Anyway, I'll drop this table in which I put together for my guide. Maybe it would be interesting for some of you to glance at just out of curiosity. I might get round to adding the Profiles and tools sometime. Quote:
Then the PSP. It "supports" Main@L3, which is pretty decent, but you have stupid Sony limitations such as framerate and resolution, even though the PSP is capable of more on paper, unless Sony is bullshitting, which I wouldn't put it past them since they claimed the HD walkman had MP3 compatability, but failed to mention the compatability is in the software which converts it to ATRAC-3. You now have bluray, I don't read into it much, but I heard a while ago that they had jumped ship from using H.264 on pre-recorded discs to MPEG-2. Some Sony bigshot, Don Eklund said, "Advanced (formats) don't necessarily improve picture quality. Our goal is to present the best picture quality for Blu-ray. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, that's with MPEG-2." Consider that MPEG-2 at 1080p resolutions will typically require 25-35mbps (even up into the 40's for HQ), and H.264 6-10mbps. Now consider that a single layer HD-DVD is typically 15GB, compared with a single layer Bluray which is 25GB. Hold on, something isn't working here... 25/15=1.6 recurring. Bluray has 1.6r x more storage than a comparable HD-DVD, yet lets take the bitrates. 25/6=4.16 recurring. 35/10=3.5 Hmm, so a HD MPEG-2 movie requires approx 3.5 - 4x the bitrate of it's H.264 counterpart, but the storage media for the MPEG-2 version has only 1.6x as much storage the medium used for the H.264 version. I won't insult people by drawing a conclusion for you. Actually I just fired up my bitrate calculator for amusement: Code:
15GB HD-DVD - LQ 1080p H.264 = 5 hrs 30mins @ 6130 kbps video and 224 kbps audio 15GB HD-DVD - HQ 1080p H.264 = 3 hrs 30mins @ 9760 kbps video and 224 kbps audio 25GB Bluray - LQ 1080p MPEG-2 = 2 hrs 15 mins @ 25660 kbps video and 224 kbps audio 25GB Bluray - HQ 1080p MPEG-2 = 1 hrs 40 mins @ 34730 kbps video and 224 kbps audio 4.7GB DVD - LQ 1080p H.264 = 1 hrs 40 mins @ 6040 kbps video and 224 kbps audio 4.7GB DVD - HQ 1080p H.264 = 1 hrs 00 mins @ 10220 kbps video and 224 kbps audio 4.7GB DVD - LQ 1080p MPEG-2 = 0 hrs 25 mins @ 24845 kbps video and 224 kbps audio 4.7GB DVD - HQ 1080p MPEG-2 = 0 hrs 18 mins @ 34595 kbps video and 224 kbps audio BTW, I loled at 1080p MPEG-2 on standard DVD. As for market penetration, don't you believe it. Fansubs probably make up a large chunk of online video distribution. It's also a fact that the XviD and x264 devs are fellow anime fans; coincidence? Fansubs, no matter how insignificant you regard their numbers, spread the usage of formats such as H.264 + MPEG-4 Visual, it's a fact. It also gets spread by word of mouth too, so one fansub viewer might tell a guy he knows about this codec he needs to be able to see new videos etc. Quote:
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So it's an extra selling point for almost no cost. I can't see that any sane company would turn that down. Especially how MP4 is gaining limelight what with mobile phones, iPod and PSP supporting it. Even the non tech savvy are coming into contact with mp4 files. Give it some time and it will eventually be almost as commonplace as mp3. Anyhow, suitable replacements for DTS might be MPEG-4 SLS or even ALS, so don't rule out MPEG-4 formats so soon.
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2006-04-10, 17:59 | Link #292 |
Gendo died for your sins.
Fansubber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Regarding Blu-Ray MPEG2/h264... it depends on the movie. You don't need ULTIMATE 30MBIT/S BITRATE GET for it to look good. There are plenty of good examples out there where sensiible bitrates are used (~15-18Mbit/s) and it looks awesome. Once you reach the threshold (probably 20Mbit/s) then you're uselessly throwing bitrate at it (again depending on the movie). And of course animation isn't going to need anywhere near those levels...
Sony said they're not using h264 anyway. Hopefully other studios will make use of it. |
2006-04-11, 05:36 | Link #293 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 41
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So there would be an extra cost. It is probably up to the manufacturer, if they want to make a non standard player and pay some extra fee. Remember mp3 support on DVD players is not a standard, only players marked with the logo supports it. The first generation of dvd player doesn't supported mp3 as a file. (obviously you can make a VCD without picture, if you want mp3 playback ^_-) But at the moment i don't think that the toshiba hd-a1 nor hd-xa1 can playback mp4 or avi files, i might be wrong. |
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2006-04-14, 16:07 | Link #294 |
Only somewhat obstinate
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Just read the backup of the old thread and this one in all their 37 page glory! Whew...! The only thing I regret is that several of the legendary troll GUTB's posts were deleted - much amusement potential lost there... Also, Zero1, you've got some outlandishly long posts going on! Like another poster said, I've never before seen anyone break vB's character limit!
Now, what is that xh.246 everyone are ruminating about? </joke> |
2006-04-14, 22:14 | Link #295 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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My PC is perfectly fine for playing on mp4 but I like watching anime on my 45 inch TV. So I'm left with no choice but to convert it back to avi. I love their subs but I can't wait till they sub up to ep 220, then I'm switching to Gerusama which at the moment still has avis. I don't care how well the quality mp4 can manage, I don't find anything wrong with the quality of avis at present. All the techinical mojo in this thread dosen't impress me one bit. |
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2006-04-15, 09:02 | Link #296 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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To my knowledge H.264 is the only compression technology that will in the long run require me to trash a perfectly good system just in order to play these encodes.
The argument that in the past there were other compression formats that people did not like and complained about but were eventually accepted does not apply here! These older formats could always be decoded using a software based codec on any decent system. And yes I know that getting H.264 to playback properly on our current systems is based on how it was encoded, but any of these current H.264 encodes could have been encoded using any other format, in current broadcast resolutions, that is more widely accepted and useable by all, not just a select few! So what if the file size larger using an older codec! If you have problems playing H.264 files on your current system whereas older codec’s work just fine then there is something wrong in the thinking that H.264 is better. For playback from files give me something that actually works regardless of the file size! It’s not that hard to figure out that adding another hard drive is much more cost effective than upgrading an entire system (or just the graphics card) just to be able to play H.264 encodes! |
2006-04-15, 10:52 | Link #297 | ||||
What? I am washed up!
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2006-04-15, 15:06 | Link #298 | |
tsubasa o sagashite
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2006-07-07, 06:13 | Link #300 |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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Frankly, I don't think anyone has done any kind of thorough testing with the cqm's that exist at the moment when it comes to anime.
Most groups don't use any cqms at this point, I believe. Also, those matrices that are included are extrapolations of xvid cqms, and haven't been optimized for the h264 codec, so although the basic theory behind them should work the same, I don't think anyone has really started to tweak them at all.
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