2011-07-23, 03:03 | Link #15041 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I prefer to think welfare is something we do because - ultimately, the alternative is to put the poor out of their misery. If you're not ready to do the latter, you'd better resign yourself to do the former. - they will, eventually, produce wealth. Not all of them, obviously. But a lot of people have low points in their lives. It doesn't mean they'll be stuck there forever. That goes double for students. I know welfare is never perfect (in whatever country), and I'm aware some people try to game the system. Doesn't mean I want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. |
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2011-07-23, 03:06 | Link #15042 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Cynical and yet more cynical...on both ends of the spectrum no less.
It is oddly entertaining...but then it is late here and I'm probably tired. I can say that some of the fustration people have with Medicare is that it doesn't really cover all that much. Especially when you get really old. It covers medications and about 30-90 days of medical treatment. If you are really old, it takes a long time to heal, upwards of half a year or a year for something as simple as a bedsore and a urinaty tract infection. Then the costs go way, way up...enough to drain a lifetime of saving in just a few months. Add to this the general view that our tax dollars at work is basically spinning its wheels and not really doing anything but fix potholes (poorly I might add), replacing half a bridge that took about five years to build in the span of 25 years, and generally seeming incompetent at every turn. At which point you generally decide that the various governments really don't deserve any of your tax dollars, and begin buying things from out of state because said states don't have sale's tax. Also when one's degree actually does nothing effectively since there are no jobs in your field that you can find. It just gives you the basic bottom rung to work because hey, everyone needs a B.A. to do anything now. About the only actual advantage I have is my Boy Scout rank as that seems to impress people (or it use to anyway). Eagle Scouts are suppose to be 2% of all scouts, so it is suppose to mean something.
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2011-07-23, 03:09 | Link #15043 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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The tax increases would definitely not be levied on someone in your tax bracket. They'd be for people making at least $250k or more. Although I could make do with a 2-3 % increase in my bracket without really sacrificing too much. Also, despite how bloated the government programs are, they are very necessary even if you don't use much of it. Social nets, even though they are abused as they are, are very necessary to keep the overall levels of crime down, especially when unemployment gets higher. Even if the parents don't contribute to society at all, every child should get the opportunity to get a decent education and become contributing members of society. Otherwise, we'd only perpetuate a cycle that will just lead to the eventual degeneration of society. This actually hurts people like you and me the most, since this rise in crime and lawlessness would seep into where we live/work first rather than the areas where the upper echelons live. Of course, the most logical solution would be to sterilize a certain percent of the population, since population is a contributor to this problem., but I guess for some people that's considered "unethical". I personally believe having children is a privilege, not a right, especially if you can't provide for them. |
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2011-07-23, 03:23 | Link #15044 | |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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(As for charities, they're of limited use during a recession because their budgets tend to be impacted by the economy as well.)
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2011-07-23, 04:56 | Link #15047 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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It is fortunate that we have Federal Russia now than isn't it? Were you will take the old spacecraft and you will like it..
And can almost relate to that since my car is 40 years old and it is fairly reliable. But somehow I'd like my spacecraft to be spaceships at some point rather than a little capsule that bounces on impact with the ground.
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2011-07-23, 05:00 | Link #15048 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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US is different. It is run by anyone who has money.
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2011-07-23, 05:01 | Link #15049 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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There's still at least 2 thing than might happen; he might have a little ''accident'' or he might end up openly killed by someone, most likely a parent of one of the teenager. Both scenario may sound interesting at first but I belive it would be a bad idea. Of course the fact than I am a outsider, not as much touched by this even might discredit my opinion on this subject, like other as well.
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2011-07-23, 05:20 | Link #15051 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Interestingly enough, the Russians are working (or at least they were in 2009) on replacements for Soyuz. Kliper and the PPTS (Rus). But like the American stuff, they won't be ready for a while either.
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2011-07-23, 06:25 | Link #15052 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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But more seriously, you guys in the US need to look at other countries for a bit. Your tax levels, such as they are, are really low. Someone quoted earlier a sales tax of 10%. In Ireland we pay 21%! Income tax? We pay 20-40 (depending on your bracket, scandinavia it's over 50%!). Obviously, I don't want to parade Ireland as a model of fiscal wisdom, we're one of those European countries on the verge of default, though during the boom times we were actually paying down debt. Our problem was that our economy was too dependent on an inflated property market facilitated by government goons... I generally agree that government should be fairly minimalist, however I wouldn't ever completely do away with government programs like healthcare, welfare and public infrastructure. You americans might complain that all that money spent on public transport is wasted, but that's because you guys don't spend enough to do a decent job. In Europe we have fantastic public transport, that doesn't break the bank. It's a pleasure to travel on. Comparitively, in the US I rode on greyhound buses and it definitely left something to be desired... America doesn't even have a decent train network. And if you look at the American budget the big spending is on Social Security, Medicare/Aid and the Military, the very things most americans will never touch. Spending decreases can only go so far. I've said it before, but if the US properly overhauled their healthcare model to a european one they'd save a lot of money... With Taxation the US could solve all it's fiscal problems. America is not a poor country, and I see nothing wrong with taxing rich people more. In fact, the wealthy owe the existence of their wealth and status to the state. If the United States collapsed tomorrow, and everything lost it's value (a Somalia scenario, if you will), everyone would lose everything, but the vast majority of working and middle class people would lose relatively little. They could probably maintain control of their property (EG, their house), and could probably seize other's property by force if they wanted to. Meanwhile all the stocks, bonds and land deeds owned by the wealthy would be just that, scraps of paper.The wealthy are dependent on the existence of the state, they should pay for it. |
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2011-07-23, 06:47 | Link #15053 | |||||||||||||
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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Now the funny thing is, that in an orderly society, many things are against one's own will (because usually people have no idea in which way they benefit from it). I don't know if this person prefers to be ripped off by health insurers in a deregualted market instead. Then he doesn't need to give some money to support those who cannot effort meaningful health care otherwise, but throw even more money down the rich, derugalted insurers throat. How this concept of giving those who really have more than enough is preferable to giving those who are in need, is going to build a stable and peaceful society that he can safely live in, is beyond me. I suppose that a functional economy does not need healthy workers, but cheap labor that can be worked to the bone. Technically that gives the financial overlords more freedom to exploit others, but your freedom as a worker drone will be pretty much non existent. Quote:
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This is way beyond being hypocritical or cynical this is outright arrogant. Of course maybe there is a twisted understanding of charity. That it must come with reducing the freedom of the person who receives help as much as possible. I suppose some sort of robbing the recipients dignity is perfectly fine with him. If he actually has to be charitable at least he can dictate how much and at what conditions, priding himself to be so charitable... excuse me, now I almost had to throw up, thinking I was at the mercy of such a person. Quote:
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But I like to go out on a limb and claim that this is most often done in a way that the already powerful and wealthy benefit most from it. While it is economically logical for the person in the middle to condemn the lower classes in favour of the higher ones (because one tries to enter these higher circles too), there is a limit to which extent this actually makes sense. Because the higher classes look at the middle with the same worries as the middle classes look at the lower classes. Technically for the higher classes it is beneficial to pit lower classes against middle classes. At the moment this approach creates more lower class from the middle class instead higher class. Which is logical, because there is only a fixed amount of money that can be distributed. And if a few people get a lot more money, many people will get less money. The question is, when is such a system working... what amount of separation of classes is healthy. At which point will it be most efficient to get the most out of social competition, and when does it starts to actually hinder such competition (classes where you are born in - and cannot leave... that concept is known from India and is called the caste system). Quote:
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Last edited by Jinto; 2011-07-23 at 07:14. |
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2011-07-23, 07:13 | Link #15054 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Age: 44
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91 dead in Norway attack
Who is the suspect in Norway's attacks? Can we start calling Norway the Christians terrorist heaven?
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2011-07-23, 08:14 | Link #15056 |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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Its certainly a tragedy. Though I am somewhat relieved that it wasn't another islamist terror attack, because europe grows more and more islamophobe in the recent years. This could have raised tensions, and intensified the situation which might have led to even more home grown attacks.
The only good thing about this attack is, that the killer did not do his cause any good (in the contrary I hope the european countries will now focus more on the right wing nuts we have here). Still, so many dead... its a hefty price for being blind on the right eye. :/
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2011-07-23, 08:29 | Link #15057 | |
Knight Errant
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 35
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We have to push things towards cosmopolitanism, am I right? |
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2011-07-23, 08:40 | Link #15058 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In line to confess his sins.
Age: 36
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Even if it turns out to be true that he is indeed a Christian, he has already shown that he was primarily motivated by his strongly held political convictions. So no, please hold your horses on declaring Norway a heaven for Christian terrorism. Quote:
I find it hard to comprehend how he thought this could possibly benefit either Norway or his case. I guess speculation is pointless at this stage, his own explanation will probably be all over the news soon enough. ---- Some other new facts have surfaced about the case. I: Sifting through the criminal's posts on a forum he was a member of shows that he was spouting classical right-wing extremist views. He was critical of multiculturalism/Islam, Marxism, the Norwegian political milieu in general, and many Norwegian politicians specifically. II: More thorough interviews with the survivors reveal that there might actually be a second shooter after all. This is not a certainty yet, and the police are working at their full capacity to discover if a second perpetrator was indeed present. III: As was already been mentioned, the death toll has risen to 91. 84 from the shooting and 7 from the bomb blast in the city center. Around 20 people are also in critical condition from injuries sustained during the two events. The numbers of dead may still rise, reports say. IV: Records show that he bought around 6 metric tonnes of artificial fertilizer, and that the bomb that was used in Oslo probably would have taken no more than around 500 kilograms to assemble, a mere 1/12 of that. What has become of the rest of it is unknown at this point, though some of it was probably used for the bomb he intended to detonate at the youth camp. EDIT: 3 tonnes of the fertilizer was found lying on the farm he had rented. My deepest condolences go to the parents who are as we speak waiting for confirmation of the deaths of their children. It's still hard to fathom that the bomb went off less than 15 minutes walking distance from where I live. The streets were eerily empty as I went out for groceries and an evening stroll by the river. I'll inspect the damages downtown myself today.
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Last edited by Echoes; 2011-07-23 at 08:55. |
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2011-07-23, 09:31 | Link #15059 | |
Asuki-tan Kairin ↓
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 43
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Another contributing factor is that the education system erodes somewhat. This produces more undereducated citizens that can be easily influenced by all sorts of radical elements. How thin the acceptance of multicutlural things is, one could see very well when certain dirt papers (e.g. Bild) used the lowest possible populist and instigation tactics to stir up resentment against the greeks. What worried me most is how easy it is to influence the people's minds.
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2011-07-23, 10:02 | Link #15060 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
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This is pretty unfortunate.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-14262276 Express Train derails in China. |
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current affairs, discussion, international |
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