[Manga] Chapter 505 Discussion

[Bari_Phillis]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

It takes people like Eric Lensherr! Freaks or mutants like Orochimaru..

Or like Dr. Heiter?

[epyon96]

I hate to ask this, but is there a new chapter coming out this week? Why is there no spoilers at all or future discussion??

[james0246]

Originally Posted by epyon96

I hate to ask this, but is there a new chapter coming out this week? Why is there no spoilers at all or future discussion??

1) There is a new spoiler coming out this week (even if this week is actually the week Shounen Jump has off).
2) Due to stricter legal issues in Japan, the spoiler providers post the new spoilers and spoiler images later in the week (generally early Wednesday (US time)).
3) So, I, or Hunter (or whichever moderator is around that Naruto fans can complain at ), will not start a new discussion thread until either the spoiler chapter is released or it is Wednesday morning (whichever comes first).

[Luminion Lancer]

Originally Posted by james0246

So, I, or Hunter (or whichever moderator is around that Naruto fans can complain at ), will not start a new discussion thread until either the spoiler chapter is released or it is Wednesday morning (whichever comes first).

-Why would people complain about those who provide them with a thread with recent spoilers? Isn't that like asking you to stop providing them with spoilers altogether?

-Anyway, who here hopes that Kisame gets captured? He'd be the 1st Akatsuki to be captured alive (all others were either killed/suicided). It would at least give Naruto and Killer Bee an excuse to leave their island of containment and get onto the battlefield. After all, let's be honest here: there is nothing left for them to do on the island anymore as Naruto is done with the Kyuubi taming.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Fukitsu Naruto

Anyway, who here hopes that Kisame gets captured? He'd be the 1st Akatsuki to be captured alive (all others were either killed/suicided). It would at least give Naruto and Killer Bee an excuse to leave their island of containment and get onto the battlefield. After all, let's be honest here: there is nothing left for them to do on the island anymore as Naruto is done with the Kyuubi taming.

I can see Kisame get captured. Naruto's not the type to kill someone. As far as I recall, he hasn't actually killed anyone throughout the entire series except for Pain's bodies, but they don't really count seeing as they were already dead. Killerbee probably won't kill him either. Although he's more likely to kill Kisame, I don't see him doing it since he's around Naruto. Might Guy just wants to fight him so I don't see him killing Kisame either. But I would like to see him and Kisame duke it out once and for all. They've been enemies ever since Kisame's introduction to the series after all.

[Killer Bee]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Scratch Nightcrawler, say it's like Goku and his instantaneous teleportation, or Braids and her extra-dimensional sprints
I gotta wonder though, what kind of jutsu is it, does it require a certain chakra type, how did people come to develop it?

Here's my theory:

EVERYTHING about ninjutsu revolves around chakra.

With that understanding, to teleport like the 4th, just like summoning, you'd have to first learn to use your chakra to open portals. Then you'd have to sync the chakra that you use to open the portal with whatever seal you intend to use.

Going by my observations in the manga, seals are nothing more than dormant energy waiting to be used. Evidence of this can be seen throughout the manga ... from explosive tags to Jiraya sealing amaterasu on a scroll without the scroll burning at all.

So with all this said, I believe that the user's technique activates his chakra in order to open a portal, sort of like how a spaceship uses its warp drive to enter hyperspace, and then the actual seals act like homing beacons that serve as destinations for the jumps/teleportation.

IMO based on conjecture(just saving James time ), the jump is the part that has to do with the "space" manipulation. However the "time" part simply has to do with a ninja making the entire process happen in less than a second. I don't think anyone can truly manipulate time for longer than a few second. Otherwise they would be invincible because they could just freeze time and then kill anyone.

I think the only part that time manipulation played in FTG technique is just making it all seem instantaneous, which I believe it wasn't. I believe that the 4th probably emitted a field or a bubble that warped time for a second the instant he entered a portal and the second he exited a portal.

No matter how good a ninja is, if he were exiting a portal without first being able to observe what he was getting into he would be at a distinct disadvantage. That is why it would be important to buy yourself a couple of seconds while arriving.

It could be as simple as Yondaime drastically improving upon shunshin no jutsu to the point where he was so fast that as soon as he teleported to a location he was able to move fast enough to avoid any attack while surveying the situation.Whatever it was he had to have had something that allowed him to perform so well when teleporting to an unknown location.

That's just my take from reading the manga and understanding how real teleportation works.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

I can spoil everything ... that is... if you believe my spoilers... when i start to spoil...

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

With that understanding, to teleport like the 4th, just like summoning, you'd have to first learn to use your chakra to open portals. Then you'd have to sync the chakra that you use to open the portal with whatever seal you intend to use.

I see Hiraishin differently. Specifically, Hiraishin seems to be partially based on a quantum entanglement teleportation, which is all about the connection between two parts of an object. Consequently, there is no dimensional travel involved, but rather a simple movement based on the connection between Minato and his kunai (this also explains the speed involved with the technique, considering that the "speed" of quantum entanglement is greater than 10,000 times the speed of light!).

Additionally, there is always the dematerialization form of teleportation (ala Star Trek), in which case Hiraishin is merely a means of connecting to specific coordinates and deconstructing and then reconstructing a bodies atoms from one coordinate to another.

Madara's teleportation does appear to be dimensional in origin...or at least he has a core dimension he travels to, and then from there he can move to another location...

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

Going by my observations in the manga, seals are nothing more than dormant energy waiting to be used. Evidence of this can be seen throughout the manga ... from explosive tags to Jiraya sealing amaterasu on a scroll without the scroll burning at all.

They are not dormant, they are contained. This is why Naruto can have real-time communication with the Kyuubi.

So with all this said, I believe that the user's technique activates his chakra in order to open a portal, sort of like how a spaceship uses its warp drive to enter hyperspace, and then the actual seals act like homing beacons that serve as destinations for the jumps/teleportation.

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

IMO based on conjecture(just saving James time )

Thank you .

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

That's just my take from reading the manga and understanding how real teleportation works.

Since there have only been a few recorded instancises, and all involved quantum entanglement, I have to wonder what "real" world experience you are talking about....

[tkdtiger]

So the best comparison of the 4th's teleportation technique would be similar to how electrons move in an atom... whereas Madara's teleportation is more similar to Nightcrawler's off the xmen...

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

So the best comparison of the 4th's teleportation technique would be similar to how electrons move in an atom... whereas Madara's teleportation is more similar to Nightcrawler's off the xmen...

Entanglement isn't teleportation, nothing "moves". The way Naruto gathers information from his bunshin is actually closer to the concept than Minato's Hiraishin.

But basically all the techniques in Naruto are magical with virtually no sci-fi edge to them whatsoever. Madara and Minato's jutsu included. They just have the science fiction-y name of "space-time" techniques.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Entanglement isn't teleportation, nothing "moves". The way Naruto gathers information from his bunshin is actually closer to the concept than Minato's Hiraishin.

That's actually one of the main reasons I like thinking of Hiraishin as being somehow related to quantum entanglement...though I tend to think dematerialization is probably a closer concept for Hiraishin...

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Entanglement isn't teleportation, nothing "moves". The way Naruto gathers information from his bunshin is actually closer to the concept than Minato's Hiraishin.

But basically all the techniques in Naruto are magical with virtually no sci-fi edge to them whatsoever. Madara and Minato's jutsu included. They just have the science fiction-y name of "space-time" techniques.

oh ok I'll have to look it up sounds interesting

[milan kyuubi]

''It was said that the Kyuubi appeared where malice festered'' This means that Kyuubi can sense other emotions, how else would it know where to atack. Thats why Naruto has the same power.

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

''It was said that the Kyuubi appeared where malice festered'' This means that Kyuubi can sense other emotions, how else would it know where to atack. Thats why Naruto has the same power.

Well I always thought that perhaps when the Kyubi was free he would be drawn towards emotions of violence and hate. I'm not sure if that's the reason Naruto necessarily can detect emotions. I think maybe it has something to do with his bloodline (not to be confused with BLs...I mean his family and who he's related to.) One think I think is interesting is certain characters with certain abilities have a certain degree of being able to detect emotions. For example characters with the Sharingan can use people's emotions against them in Genjutsu (not to mention it's activated in great emotional duress) in, characters with the Byakugan can see slight emotional ques from the body and how it reacts, with the Rinnegan it also was activated in great emotional duress. In the case of the Rinnegan it seems he can scan people minds...

[milan kyuubi]

Originally Posted by tkdtiger

Well I always thought that perhaps when the Kyubi was free he would be drawn towards emotions of violence and hate. I'm not sure if that's the reason Naruto necessarily can detect emotions. I think maybe it has something to do with his bloodline (not to be confused with BLs...I mean his family and who he's related to.) One think I think is interesting is certain characters with certain abilities have a certain degree of being able to detect emotions. For example characters with the Sharingan can use people's emotions against them in Genjutsu (not to mention it's activated in great emotional duress) in, characters with the Byakugan can see slight emotional ques from the body and how it reacts, with the Rinnegan it also was activated in great emotional duress. In the case of the Rinnegan it seems he can scan people minds...

I agree for the first part, but Naruto for now at least can only sense bad intention from someone. Meaning he can sense their hatred. Because he took the full chakra of the Kyuubi he gained some (if not all) of his powers. The legend says Kyuubi can feel bad emotions and when it reach a certain level he will attack them. This also brings the question why would he attack bad people when he himself is a being of massive hatred.

The byakugan and sharingan can read the movements or your body, they can't sense other emotions. For an example, when you are nervous you'll probably look down or play with your hands (just like Hinata does). The byakugan and sharingan can read this movements and come to conclusion that they are nervous.

I wander if Naruto will gain some new powers beside just massive chakra, I am hoping for something like telekinesis or shinra tensei (he is related to the sage after all). This could be a good counter to Sasuke arrow atack.

[Goshin]

i don't think you need a doujutsu to read body language

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

I agree for the first part, but Naruto for now at least can only sense bad intention from someone. Meaning he can sense their hatred. Because he took the full chakra of the Kyuubi he gained some (if not all) of his powers. The legend says Kyuubi can feel bad emotions and when it reach a certain level he will attack them. This also brings the question why would he attack bad people when he himself is a being of massive hatred.

The byakugan and sharingan can read the movements or your body, they can't sense other emotions. For an example, when you are nervous you'll probably look down or play with your hands (just like Hinata does). The byakugan and sharingan can read this movements and come to conclusion that they are nervous.

I wander if Naruto will gain some new powers beside just massive chakra, I am hoping for something like telekinesis or shinra tensei (he is related to the sage after all). This could be a good counter to Sasuke arrow atack.

there is probably no real need to sense good intentions...

as awesome as that sounds, i doubt we will see Naruto with any rinnegan-like powers. he is only half the sage lineage after all.

[james0246]

Still no spoilers, but I opened the new thread in preparation for the spoilers which should be released in just a few hours...please redirect Chapter 506 predictions and speculations to the new thread.

---

edit: in regards to Kisame's possible survival, in actuality he can be killed by Kirabi or Naruto here. Specifically, since Kabutomaru joined the team, it is now possible for Kisame to be killed but still come back to relay info to Madara as well as have his eventual standoff with either Suigetsu or Gai...

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

I agree for the first part, but Naruto for now at least can only sense bad intention from someone. Meaning he can sense their hatred. Because he took the full chakra of the Kyuubi he gained some (if not all) of his powers. The legend says Kyuubi can feel bad emotions and when it reach a certain level he will attack them. This also brings the question why would he attack bad people when he himself is a being of massive hatred.

Violence begets violence, and hatred will beget hatred. Wherever there is violence, people with a taste or liking for violence will want in on the action. The Kyuubi doesn't attack people with ill intentions out of a sense of justice or correctness. When it sees fighting, he wants to fight too. That is pretty much all there is to it.

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

I agree for the first part, but Naruto for now at least can only sense bad intention from someone. Meaning he can sense their hatred. Because he took the full chakra of the Kyuubi he gained some (if not all) of his powers. The legend says Kyuubi can feel bad emotions and when it reach a certain level he will attack them. This also brings the question why would he attack bad people when he himself is a being of massive hatred.

The byakugan and sharingan can read the movements or your body, they can't sense other emotions. For an example, when you are nervous you'll probably look down or play with your hands (just like Hinata does). The byakugan and sharingan can read this movements and come to conclusion that they are nervous.

I wander if Naruto will gain some new powers beside just massive chakra, I am hoping for something like telekinesis or shinra tensei (he is related to the sage after all). This could be a good counter to Sasuke arrow atack.

That's not nec. what I meant when I was talking about the Sharingan and Byakugan. I meant for example the Byakugan visually is more able to detect those physical ques not that is senses emotions. Hinata is the perfect example. She was actually even able to tell that it was Neji who was attempting to escape destiny. I didn't mean they sensed emotions.