[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 7 Requiem of the golden witch

[LyricalAura]

She couldn't predict whether the siblings would search the room when they came in. Why would she do something that dangerous instead of leaving it with her Kanon outfit somewhere?

[loctar87]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

She couldn't predict whether the siblings would search the room when they came in. Why would she do something that dangerous instead of leaving it with her Kanon outfit somewhere?

Then maybe the Kanon outfit is already in the chapel with the key. That also works. The chapel isn't someplace the relatives are likely to go unless they are directed there.

[LyricalAura]

But then my previous objection holds. In order for her to get into the chapel, it has to be unlocked, meaning the fifth master key isn't locked inside the closed room ring.

[loctar87]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

But then my previous objection holds. In order for her to get into the chapel, it has to be unlocked, meaning the fifth master key isn't locked inside the closed room ring.

I think that you can smudge the red truth enough to get around that. But let's say you're right. In that case, it's just somewhere else in Shannon's room. Your only objection there is that it's risky, but that's not difficult to get around. Maybe the Kanon outfit is in a different locked room for some reason. Maybe they started exploring earlier than she expected and didn't have time to place the key elsewhere. Maybe she just forgot she had both keys until after the relatives started exploring. Maybe she just didn't care much if they found it because she didn't need it anymore.

[AuraTwilight]

Originally Posted by LyricalAura

She couldn't predict whether the siblings would search the room when they came in. Why would she do something that dangerous instead of leaving it with her Kanon outfit somewhere?

Because it's not like Yasu has been characterized as an insanely big risk-taker who leaves everything up to fate and doesn't care if she succeeds or not.

Oh wait.

[kagan]

Originally Posted by Kirroha

I don't get why there are so many comics of Will and Young Lion. Have the game ever mentioned something like that happening?

Forgive me for randomly walking in and answering this old question, and forgive me if it has already been answered, but it seems like all those images stem from this image. It's a small comic about a possible fragment where Will, who hasn't earned the title of Wright yet, somehow drops into Lion's room and ends up reading stories to him every night.

...Lion is specified as a boy in this comic, but the artist says you can think of him as a girl, too.

In other words, it's all based on a fan's thoughts, not anything official.

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Because it's not like Yasu has been characterized as an insanely big risk-taker who leaves everything up to fate and doesn't care if she succeeds or not.

Oh wait.

I can understand her taking a big risk to make a trick work. It's taking a risk for no good reason that I don't buy.

...Well, like I said, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Although I'm still holding out hope that my alternate solution will end up being right.

[AuraTwilight]

She's apparently already established Shannon and Kanon as people by the time she's set this up. She can't just back out on it and say "herpderp he no exist."

I mean, shit, Yasu doesn't have a "good reason" for doing ANYTHING.

[Witch of Uncertainty]

I'll get real pissed if the red truth turns out to be "This is the truth, NOT" or "This is the truth I would prefer" or something like that. That is just cheap, and imo, makes the red truth meaningless, since 07th expansion could just conveniently let a red truth get interupted so it has an entirely different meaning. "This is the real truth in this kakera" or something like that, I wouldn't have a problem with.

And honestly, while it may be a lie Bern made up and managed to lure Ange in, Kyrie did not surprise me. She showed in both ep 3 and 6 that she lets jalousy and greed (Jalously is basically greed, imo) overtake her. (She said it was a good thing that Asumu died, sine she wouldn't have to become a murderer herself), and in ep 3, while she didn't exaclty say anything "evil", she gave herself a away abit by showing how many years she was stuck on Rudolf, while he was with Asumu.

Yeah, I know this one came a bit late, but this is bugging me a great deal.

[KazePT]

Just a pop up question:

We will have an explanation for all the "Battler is not the Ushiromiya Battler son of Asumu and Rudolf"? =.=
I almost forgot about Battler stuff in this episode (even with all the - I love Battler thing).

[Witch of Uncertainty]

Spoiler:

I thought Rudolph "confirmed" that Kyrie was the mother

[KazePT]

Originally Posted by Witch of Uncertainty

Spoiler:

I thought Rudolph "confirmed" that Kyrie was the mother

Spoiler for :

Are you sure? That "please don't say that he's not your kid after this" didn't sound too convincing... Wouldn't Kyrie know if he was really her son?

[luckyssol]

Yeah, Rudolf says that she's the mother. One thing I forgot to check was Ange's reaction. Or was Ange already hamburger meat at that time?

Remember back in ep4? Didn't it seem like Ange already knew what trump card Beatrice was going to use when she was trying to back out of the game? Yet in episode 6...

[AuraTwilight]

Not really. Besides, who else could possibly be the mother at this point? I mean, two deliveries ON THE SAME DAY?

That, and Battler and Ange look pretty much exactly alike.

@Witch of Uncertainty's Red Truth Complaint: We've already seen the Red being used in incomplete forms to trip people up and deceive people, it's nothing new, and it doesn't make the red worthless; if anything, it just reaffirms EP7's general message that you shouldn't red as absolute gospel.

[Witch of Uncertainty]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

@Witch of Uncertainty's Red Truth Complaint: We've already seen the Red being used in incomplete forms to trip people up and deceive people, it's nothing new, and it doesn't make the red worthless; if anything, it just reaffirms EP7's general message that you shouldn't red as absolute gospel.

Really? When? If you mean like "There's no more than X people on this island", I wouldn't really count that one, since it didn't require someone to interrupt you. The only red truth that I've seen besides this one (that I can remember) is when Battler chokes when he can't say that Asumu is his mother.

[LyricalAura]

Originally Posted by Witch of Uncertainty

I'll get real pissed if the red truth turns out to be "This is the truth, NOT" or "This is the truth I would prefer" or something like that. That is just cheap, and imo, makes the red truth meaningless, since 07th expansion could just conveniently let a red truth get interupted so it has an entirely different meaning. "This is the real truth in this kakera" or something like that, I wouldn't have a problem with.

I think of it this way. The whole foundation of red truth is about trust. Even if something is said in red, if you don't at least accept that your opponent is using it in good faith, then it's meaningless. A game can't come into existence without the participation of two people. So, what if you try to say something in red for your game, but your opponent 100% refuses to accept it? Maybe what happens is that the red collapses.

This would explain why:
- Beato couldn't say that magic existed in red unless Battler submitted.
- Battler had a red barrier that protected him from magic due to his disbelief.
- Beato made Battler cover his ears before she erased Eva-Beatrice. She didn't want his beliefs to interfere with what she was going to say.
- Battler couldn't say that he was Asumu's son. Beato had contradicting information that she believed far more than him.
- Beato couldn't say that Sakutarou was the only one of his kind, even in the fantasy world of the Golden Land. Ange found evidence to the contrary in 1998.
- Bern couldn't say that the story would have no happy ending. The truth she presented was too disgusting for Ange to accept.

[Witch of Uncertainty]

But Ange did believe it. That's why she interupted Bern by screaming?

Battler was interupted because he was telling a lie with red. Red is objective. Interpretation is subjective. (Erika showed us this in ep 5).

Beato can't say that magic exist, because it doesn't. At least not in a way that can directly interfere with our world; Exactly what Beato is trying to prove. (Battler knows that magic actually exists, because of the situation he is in).

[AuraTwilight]

But Ange did believe it. That's why she interupted Bern by screaming?

No, she screamed because she refused to believe it.

Battler was interupted because he was telling a lie with red. Red is objective. Interpretation is subjective.

Says who? Oh, the Red Text itself. Which you choose to have trust and faith in that it's being honest.

Beato can't say that magic exist, because it doesn't. At least not in a way that can directly interfere with our world; Exactly what Beato is trying to prove. (Battler knows that magic actually exists, because of the situation he is in).

Hanyuu would like a word with you.

[Mcjon01]

Originally Posted by KazePT

Spoiler for :

Are you sure? That "please don't say that he's not your kid after this" didn't sound too convincing... Wouldn't Kyrie know if he was really her son?

Well, aside from the line in Episode 7, there's also a line in Episode 6 to support that theory:

Spoiler for Episode 6:

That big secret that Rudolf wanted to tell Battler apparently involves Kyrie as well.

[Witch of Uncertainty]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

No, she screamed because she refused to believe it.

Well, to me it seemed like she screamed because she didn't want to hear more from Bern. Meaning that she did believe it.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Says who? Oh, the Red Text itself. Which you choose to have trust and faith in that it's being honest.

Clever, got nothing to really counter that. But why would the red interrupt him, if not for something else?

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Hanyuu would like a word with you.

Well, Higurashi is treated as a novel in Umineko, and even if it is connected; Hanyuu never did anything. For all we know, she is a part of Rika's personality (Like shkanon). The time stops she does are completely useless. She leaves in no way any proof that she is supernatural.