Macross Frontier - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[sekidousai]

Originally Posted by CeruleaFeng

Or she could be talking about killing Vajra. Or killing in general.

'Sides, I don't see Alto confirming what she said. All I see is Sheryl possibly misunderstanding what was said. Y'know, like when Ranka saw Alto holding Sheryl after she almost fainted?

The "M" in "Macross" stands for "misunderstanding". That's why it's called drama. Hurr.

Well I hope the M stays at Misunderstanding, and not D... for you know.

[CeruleaFeng]

Originally Posted by sekidousai

Well I hope the M stays at Misunderstanding, and not D... for you know.

Sheryl's death flags are probably false. We were trolled with Ozma for a little bit, who is only a minor character. It makes sense that Kawamori would shove SHERYL DEATHDEATHDEATH down our throats only "lolz gotcha" at the end, leaving us all to headdesk over our previous fretting.

[sekidousai]

And I think the way Kawamori is using it is very effective ^^. Well i think i have my share of putting more wood on the fire.... and i'm gonna wait for now and see how it burns....... I mean see the rest of the episodes .

[Seifall]

Originally Posted by CeruleaFeng

Or she could be talking about killing Vajra. Or killing in general. Or, hell, protecting the sky. Klan's question was horribly ambiguous.

'Sides, I don't see Alto confirming what she said. All I see is Sheryl possibly misunderstanding what was said. Y'know, like when Ranka saw Alto holding Sheryl after she almost fainted? Both jumped to conclusions.

The "M" in "Macross" stands for "misunderstanding". That's why it's called drama. Hurr.

Kawamori has you wrapped around his finger, Seifall.

Spoiler for klan : " is is your true love " ?:

My ... I deleted it unvolontary...
To summarize it :
I don't think so(about Klan last sentence) or actually I'm sure it's not that ,since Yasaburo 'speech to Alto was pretty straightfoward .
He said that Alto is an actor and is acting now , he is floawing along ( Ozma anyone ? )
And then alto answered him he has to fight or everybody will die.
Yasaburo : ... "Please think carefully one more time, what it is you really want. Why, what it is you're looking for ? "
He thinks about it, met Klan, they're talking about the call from Cathy about Ranka and engage the discussion.
He said he joined SMS because of Ranka, she is the one he wanted to protect.
Then he has a lot of flashbacks about Ranka ( not once for sheryl, so Teletha I know will not convince you because you have already made up your mind about Alto x Sheryl end ) but he didn't think once about sheryl and his desire to protect her....
After that we saw Sheryl crying and saying " I knew it but for a little longer "
she wanted to believe her love for alto was enough and to stay with him longer but she knows now he always thought about Ranka when fighting and that Ranka was the one he wanted to protect since the beginning.
Klan asks him " Is is your true love ? " He didn't respond but clenched his fist knowing yes, she is his true love( if you see yasaburo talk with him and Klan,together this is obvious), so he loves her but he has to kill her.

[Darial]

Originally Posted by Ja-Y-Ce

curious about the Jap fandom over this episode - anyone with any idea?

LW already covered the current reactions, so that's good. The speculations prior to 23 were mostly that Alto was going to ditch Sheryl after she's drunk and fly off to join SMS. So that didn't happen and I'm glad.

Originally Posted by Mughi

WOW! The shipper wars are really heating up now!

[snipped]

In the end, everyone is whining about Sheryl, or Ranka or arguing about Alto this or that, but Alto is the MAN... He's own'd you all by never answering the key questions... and now he's done it again! I think that Alto might just BE Kawamori, and he's trolling ALL of you shippers!

Agreed. Alto is definitely trolling us hard at this point. Although it is fairly entertaining to watch the firefight. I'd join in right now but it seems more fun to watch from the sidelines.

The bottom line is nothing is resolved, and nothing is going to be resolved for 14 more days. Anyone who thinks differently have more than 50% chance of being wrong since there are a combination of possible endings.

So in the meantime, enjoy the ride and have fun with the fire fights. If I get bored I'll toss in a few grenades here and there for Sheryl-sama's glory. Three Cheers to the continuation and escalation of MacrossF shipper war.

Hmm... where's Takky when you need him?

[Key Board]

You guys are putting too much value on whether Alto loves Ranka or not

this might be surprising to you, but you can love more than one person

and the feeling itself can fluctuate

example: Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Ichigo 100, Kimikiss, heck, even the original Macross

[mechabao]

Originally Posted by Seifall

Spoiler for klan : " is is your true love " ?:

My ... I deleted it unvolontary...
To summarize it :
I don't think so(about Klan last sentence) or actually I'm sure it's not that ,since Yasaburo 'speech to Alto was pretty straightfoward .
He said that Alto is an actor and is acting now , he is floawing along ( Ozma anyone ? )
And then alto answered him he has to fight or everybody will die.
Yasaburo : ... "Please think carefully one more time, what it is you really want. Why, what it is you're looking for ? "
He thinks about it, met Klan, they're talking about the call from Cathy about Ranka and engage the discussion.
He said he joined SMS because of Ranka, she is the one he wanted to protect.
Then hehas a lot of flashbacks about Ranka ( not once for sheryl, so Teletha I will not convince so because you have already made up your mind about Alto x Sheryl end ) but he didn't think once about sheryl and his desire to protect her....
after that we saw Sheryl crying and saying " I knew it but for a little longer "
she wanted to believe her love for alto was enough and staying with him longer but she knows now he always thought about Ranka when fighting and that she was the one he wanted to protect since the beginning.
Klan asks him " Is is your true love ? " He didn't respond but clenched his fist knowing yes, she is his true love( if you see yasaburo talk with him and Klan reunited this is obvious), so he loves her but he has to kill her.

Spoiler for Or maybe...:

he clenched his fists because he swore that he would protect Ranka. However, now that there's a possibility that the Vajra might use Ranka to destroy Frontier and everyone on it means that he would have to break that promise in the worst way possible.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by TwilightHack

I don't mind the whole Alto feelings thing, but the whole back to Ranka thing no.

who EVER said that he was going back with Ranka? He will stay with Sheryl till the very end. this episode doesn't have anything about Alto and Ranka getting together. this episode is just taking away any doubts that he had feelings for Ranka, something that the sharyl's fan keep trying to deny even though they got their pairing.

[Teletha]

Most Sheryl fans never denied Alto had feelings for Ranka. They don't think they are that type of feelings perhaps, but he obviously has feelings for her. That's why we are saying it sets up the finale.

[sekidousai]

Originally Posted by golthin

something that the sharyl's fan keep trying to deny even though they got their pairing.

so Sheryl fans are in denial ^^

[Westlo]

It's a pity Seifall only joined last month, it would've been interesting to see her opinions near the end for stuff like KGNE and True Tears.... shows where the main guy had feelings for both, shows where the winning girl looked screwed near the end. Things I've been saying will happen in Frontier for weeks now....

So even though I raged hard after watching the episode.... as soon as I got the translation of the scenes from #macrossuki I calmed down and laughed at myself. In wrestling terms I went from being a smark to a mark for 5 minutes.

[Kora]

now Michael's backstory ep makes more sense to me- one of main things there was about his sister- killing someone you have feelings for (accidentaly or not, it was not answered). i thought that they might put someone in that kind of situation again, - otherwise why bother telling about it- and it seems like it's happening.

[aneeshadc]

@golthin

I think you're mistaken. Most of us Sheryl fans havent ever denied that he's had feelings for both girls. The Question has always been Who he had deeper feelings for? Its clear he cares abt both girls. I havent seen the episode but from the spoilers, the only thing thats been confirmed is that he had some feelings for ranka, just like ep 22 confirmed that he had some feelings for sheryl. The real Question is what Klan asks alto. Which is your TRUE LOVE?

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Key Board

You guys are putting too much value on whether Alto loves Ranka or not

this might be surprising to you, but you can love more than one person

and the feeling itself can fluctuate

example: Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Ichigo 100, Kimikiss, heck, even the original Macross

No, Sheryl's fan will never accept that Alto had any romantic feelings for Ranka! Even though it is pretty obvious with this episode! It is like a sin for alto to have any feelings for Ranka at all. They keep calling it brotherly love, but it just make me feel how they keep denying it. why can't they accept that he had feelings for Ranka even though Ranka and Alto is basically impossible to happen now.

Originally Posted by aneeshadc

@golthin

I think you're mistaken. Most of us Sheryl fans havent ever denied that he's had feelings for both girls. The Question has always been Who he had deeper feelings for? Its clear he cares abt both girls. I havent seen the episode but from the spoilers, the only thing thats been confirmed is that he had some feelings for ranka, just like ep 22 confirmed that he had some feelings for sheryl. The real Question is what Klan asks alto. Which is your TRUE LOVE?

you might be the rare case, but everytime it is brought out I hear "he only likes her as a brother"
line.

[sekidousai]

No, Sheryl's fan will never accept that Alto had any romantic feelings for Ranka! Even though it is pretty obvious with this episode!

"No Sheryl's die hard rabid fan will ever accept that Alto had any romantic feelings for Ranka! Even though it is pretty obvious with this episode!"

There fixed it for 'ya ^^

---- hmmmmm..... both girls dying. ^^. Ranka dying by Alto's hands, and Sheryl dying in Alto's hands........~~~~

[cry]

about the "woh in fact alto loves ranka thing"...

i think this guy doesn't know what he wants at all. Do you think he would answer if some character asked him "Do you love Sheryl Nome" ?

It's like Ozma said in the previous episode, he has to choose his damn own path. He's kind , want to help others, make them happy, but when there's questions about himself he's totally clueless. I know that for some people it's easier to get concerned by other people 's feelings or problems than theirs, is it this kind of character the scenarist want to describe?

this character has to learn how to live correctly for himself and his dreams, or he'll just make the girl cry. i think it's the only way for him to learn real love too.

>sekidousai i don't know what my reaction would be if the director had the balls to do that. if it's well done, maybe it 'll be great ... mixed fellings with fear and excitment...


wouhou, this series excite me a lot.
Will the macross team make a great conclusion for the plot and a logical ending for the triangle?

[Sokana]

Since the ending scene has be translated.

Can someone translate the dinner scene for me?

[monir]

Originally Posted by aneeshadc

The real Question is what Klan asks alto. Which is your TRUE LOVE?

It may not be as simple as "which is your True Love." What Klan has asked reflects on how Alto derived to the conclusion why he must kill Ranka. It's based on his whole recital to why he joined SMS, "to fight, and to protect." Sheryl and Ranka are just two of the many he is protecting. And now he might have to fight and kill one of those people that he has fought to protect thus far. Sheryl's monologue seems to confirm that assumption.

So what does "love" mean to him? Our Alto-hime is in quite the dillema.

[aneeshadc]

Originally Posted by golthin

No, Sheryl's fan will never accept that Alto had any romantic feelings for Ranka! Even though it is pretty obvious with this episode! It is like a sin for alto to have any feelings for Ranka at all. They keep calling it brotherly love, but it just make me feel how they keep denying it. why can't they accept that he had feelings for Ranka even though Ranka and Alto is basically impossible to happen now.


you might be the rare case, but everytime it is brought out I hear "she only likes her as a brother"
line.

Would you please stop Generalizing all sheryl fans & making them out to be ignorant & in denial? Most Sheryl fans are not denying alto has looked at ranka romantically before, Galia IV makes it quite clear that he has. The point isnt abt whether or not he had romantic feelings for the girls, It is Who he has stronger feelings for!

[Seifall]

Originally Posted by mechabao

Spoiler for Or maybe...:

he clenched his fists because he swore that he would protect Ranka. However, now that there's a possibility that the Vajra might use Ranka to destroy Frontier and everyone on it means that he would have to break that promise in the worst way possible.

I could agree if klan didn't say sore ga omae no koi .
But she said it so it's more than just protecting someone here. She joined because of Michel she loved him, they talked about who alto wanted to protect, who was the love he was fighting for, like her with Michel.
He said he joined SMS for Ranka and said :
Alto:"And... I met her.I choose to join SMS to protect her. Fighting, protecting and forever after that..." ( What a declaration )
But I think all people who supported sheryl until now need the aishiteru 's word from Alto's mouth to alto, which I understand perfectly

Originally Posted by CeruleaFeng

I believe Alto joined SMS to be able to fly, first and foremost. Secondly, to protect people, Ranka being his number one at the time. We also have to keep in mind that when Alto joined SMS, Sheryl was still at the top of her game, and didn't need his protection. Not to mention that they were still being all tsun-tsun all over each other at that point in time. So it's understandable that he would think of Ranka when Klan asks him about joining SMS, as she embodies the need for protection of the populace of Frontier.
Also, the kind of danger Sheryl is in is not the kind that can be fixed with a quick Vajra killing-spree. Being in the military and flying around won't help her, so, naturally, he would not think of Sheryl while being asked about SMS. Ranka can easily be protected with some hot-blooded Valk action but Sheryl, in terms of what Alto can do for her, is doomed.

Yes , he said it.

Spoiler for Alto:

B]Alto :"I thought that too... That I would become an actor.But I loved the sky and wanted to be a pilot...."

Alto thinks about Ranka

Spoiler for alto:

Alto:"And... I met her.I choose to join SMS to protect her. Fighting, protecting and forever after that..." (to be with her forever ? ) [/B]

But he said it as if Ranka was the one who changed his life.
Thanks to her, he found his purpose( back then he wanted to escape kabuki and wanted to fly so floawed along with flying), but when he met Ranka he fighted for someone, he wanted to protect her which often ended as RANKAAAAAAAAAAA when he couldn't.

Spoiler for Alto:

B]Alto: "It's true... that maybe I had been running up to now. Pretending I didn't notice a lot of things." (huh guess about who he is talking here....)
[/B]

So he did pretend he wasn't aware of Ranka's feelings for him, or he did pretend he wasn't feeling anything for her . The next episode will clear it.
you talk about sheryl :
Sheryl was still at the top of her game, and didn't need his protection
that's what I said countless time here, thanks !
she is the one who teased him at the beginning so he couldn't being aware of her feelings.
But he said " then, I met her ...." .
He met Ranka and wanted to protect her since the beginning, OK. But he said she was the one he wanted to protect. He could have talk about Sheryl who was in danger in episode 13, in episode 14, ... He could have said he wants to protect sheryl too since she is a part of Frontier people but he didn't even think about her ? He didn't even spell her name...
Of course she is not in danger like Ranka who has a connexion with the vajra but since episode 18 he stays with her, he conforts her, he even hugged her ( the kiss didn't exist) , people even said that's why he loves her because he didn't make one of those things with Ranka but he said it himself :

Spoiler for Declaration:

Alto: "It's true... that maybe I had been running up to now. Pretending I didn't notice a lot of things."

Now , it's a big declaration here. He wasn't acting like a brother( many people thought it), around Ranka because had such feelings towards her but he " pretended he didn't notice " .
I really thought he was dense but now we have the reason why.


People talked me here about how Alto and Sheryl relationship was stronger than Ranka.

Spoiler for Alto's declaration:

So even if he wanted to protect Ranka first, his relationship with sheryl should have push him to say " i wanted to protect sheryl after that.."
But no, he didn't say anything like that, either think or talk about sheryl once when thinking about the person he was fighting for ...
Sheryl's tear is important here, she cried because she knows Alto doesn't speak for nothing, nor like to speak about love, protection...
He indeed made a big declaration here which for me is a confession of his true feelings towards Ranka(I know some people don't want to believe it but looks like episode 24 will closed this terrible triangle for good ).

I said this is the " true beginning" looks like i was right.