2021-12-24, 13:33
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Link #301 |
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Operation sneaky sneaks
 IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
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It's the night of all nights, and before we enter Christmas on this side of the world, I'd like to take some time to share an alternative set of thoughts concerning Aquatope on White Sand, both to present another view of things and to offset the negativity here. While I get that people are entitled to their own opinion of the show, it wouldn't be fair to allow predominantly negative thoughts to dominate this thread. For me, I hold that the magic in this series stems from the portrayal of the gap between childhood (the first half) and adulthood (the second half). The "magic" seen in this first half is a metaphor for how as a child, the world looks magical, whereas as an adult, one's role is to deliver magic. This is why the visions and kijimuna figure less prominantly once Kukuru begins working at Tingarla. I invite people to read this in greater detail, since my thought process is lengthier than what one could fit here, and I welcome any (constructive) feedback there.
I remark that it is with some irony that this time around, I'm on the other side of the fence in defending Aquatope on White Sand (whereas previously, with something like Glasslip, I would've been expressing dissatisfaction). With this being said, the reason why I'm not responding to Aquatope on White Sand the same way I did with Glasslip is because the messages are clearer, and there is no pretense that the anime was ever meant to be a deep philosophical work demanding of viewers expertise with obscure works like Albert Camus' "The Myth of Sisyphus". There is no abstract imagery, such as the multiple Kakerus, that require familiarity with Japanese avant-garde cinema to understand. With this in mind, I'm not expecting people to freely agree with my thoughts on Aquatope on White Sand as they did with Soulelle on Glasslip (the fact that Soulelle was wrong notwithstanding: my thoughts are at least, more coherent and more inspired than anything Soulelle came up with). However, I will note that whereas Soulelle presumed to insult people and tell them what to think with that ill-conceived "analysis", the contrarian opinion I provided is merely my own, albeit one to offset the negativity here. I will reiterate again that people can make of Aquatope on White Sand what they will. However, some of the attempts at conveying this dislike here has been, for the lack of a better word, disappointing. Throwing around individual words like "cowardice" and acting as though that is a convincing argument won't fly, and the justification provided insofar has been limited. Just because an individual or small group of persons thought along those same lines does not make it the objective truth. Similarly, in my final impressions of Aquatope on White Sand and its penultimate episodes, I've had readers comment on the series' strong points, specifically in how it pertains to them. This series is far from P.A. Works' worst, and while varying individual experiences shape one's assessment of Aquatope on White Sand, these are (including mine) by no means a definitive and catch-all measure of the anime itself. As a parting remark, I do have to ask why people treated Soulelle's opinion of Glasslip with such deference when it added nothing to things, and then similarly not extend the same courtesy to those holding opinions of Aquatope on White Sand contrary to the prevailing sentiment.
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2021-12-24, 16:52
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Link #302 | |
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Speedy Sea Cucumber
Join Date: Jun 2008
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2021-12-26, 21:30
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Link #303 | |
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そのおっぱいで13才
Join Date: Dec 2006
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And yeah, I think if she could choose, she would do Kukuru x the guy. Fuuka would just lose out but grow as a person, like True Tears. ...Wow, sounds interesting.
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2021-12-27, 09:29
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is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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back on Aquatope. They were probably just trying to go for a wider audience, for more sales try to attract the yuri fans, which is the reason for setting up a story which looks to have possibility to go the yuri route.. girl meets girl, the guy in the workplace hates girls making him not a threat to the possible yuri. Thankfully, I've seen a few other heavy baiting kind of anime.. the most notorious of which is Euphonium - it made me hold off buying anything until some sort level of yuri is confirmed and not just bait - and true enough, there's no yuri in this show (cash saved). These days, if something does not reach Togo Mimori or Gun-chan levels of yuri vibes, then I won't buy anything from a show. I'm totally corrupted. lol with all things said.. this show is still quite entertaining in the first half, and had a good time watching even if it had no real yuri.
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Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2021-12-27 at 09:41. |
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2021-12-27, 12:36
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Link #306 | |
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Speedy Sea Cucumber
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I need yuri kisses or I tune out... especially if a series goes 12 episodes and can't get past "but we're both girls!" Speaking of early kisses maybe something like Lonely Girl ni Sakarenai will get adapted soon... I can only hope.
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2021-12-27, 19:18
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Link #307 | |
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Kana Hanazawa ♥
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
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2021-12-27, 19:50
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Link #308 | |
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Math Ninja
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ventura County CA
Age: 59
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2021-12-28, 02:07
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Link #309 | |
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On a mission
Author
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Not here
Age: 40
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Quote:
 It also didn't help she drained some of Shu's presence so people are going to assume things. Also: Spoiler:
Eupho was not yuri, but certain scenes were definitely bait and Kyoani has been known to do this with many of their shows.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2021-12-28 at 02:19. |
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2022-01-04, 17:46
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Link #310 | ||
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is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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https://www.novelupdates.com/series/...us-young-lady/ "I'm in Love with the Villainess" is good too.. but without spoiling anything on the plot, what I don't like about it is it has three bishounen guys that also get focus in the story - well, each of them only has a bit of screentime but since there's 3 of them, then their screentimes combined.. that's a lot of screentime with guys. Tensei Oujo has just one prince who only takes a little screentime... so it's the better one for me. If I'm watching a show for the yuri, I wanna see girls, not more guys. Quote:
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Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2022-01-05 at 05:17. |
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2022-01-05, 08:40
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Link #311 | |
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Speedy Sea Cucumber
Join Date: Jun 2008
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We do need some real yuri anime regardless. |
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2022-01-26, 09:34
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Link #312 |
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Operation sneaky sneaks
IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
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While different people are naturally entitled to different opinions of an outcome, there is a gap between a reasoned critique and unproductive bashing of a series. This post is intended to present counterarguments against some of the most egregious and gratuitous claims levelled against The Aquatope on White Sand. I count these points as poor, unworthy of agreement, because they offer nothing beyond mocking everything within this anime. Challenging poorly-formed criticism line-by-line is not in violation of the forum rules in any way. Assuming this forum is, of course, mature enough to handle criticism about criticism, instead of deleting it outright and labelling it a personal attack, let us continue:
No, P.A. Works should continue to make workplace anime as they see fit. The Aquatope on White Sand presents the workplace from the perspective of someone who is passionate about marine life and aquariums, but only has ever worked at a smaller aquarium without the business constraints that a larger aquarium has. There is no laziness in The Aquatope on White Sand whatsoever, and if anything, the portrayal of Kukuru finding her feet is a valid one, bringing to light the sorts of things that have crossed every beginner's mind at least once. Plenty happens throughout The Aquatope on White Sand, with the chiefest of these being that Kukuru does end up finding her footing and appreciation for how to turn her passion into something having a tangible, positive impact. Similarly, Fūka, who was lost when The Aquatope on White Sand began, comes to discover her passion for something new. Both Kukuru and Fūka positively impact one another, so it is demonstrably false that nothing happens. The goal of The Aquatope on White Sand is most definitely not to portray nepotism, but rather, show how one can make the most of what opportunities are presented to them. Tetsuji's treatment at the hands of viewers is naïve. Workplace conflict is a common enough issue such that things like conflict management and resolution are vital disciplines in a given company culture. When there are people, there are bound to be disagreements, and when one disagrees with their supervisors, it is not mature or appropriate to simply quit without at least making a proper effort to see if these differences can be reconciled. The events shown in The Aquatope on White Sand are, of course, fictional, and therefore, nowhere representative of the work environment at P.A. Works. Finally, there's no evidence presented that the Japanese viewers were disapproving of The Aquatope on White Sand. Unless a valid source is present, there is nothing to indicate this way of thinking is prevalent amongst the Japanese viewers, and even then, it represents the opinions of a small handful of individuals. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions. Let's take these bullet points apart, one at a time. There are a lot of people in our lives, and I bet not everyone knows everyone with full omniscience. The large cast succeeds in creating a richer world for Kukuru and Fūka, using the cast size to show how Fūka begins to open up, and Kukuru begins to withdraw, as things get trickier. It is not necessary that we know every last detail about every individual. Next, idiosyncratic nicknames for the characters are immature and only sow confusion. It's Eiji. Tetsuji's background is explored to a minimal, but satisfactory extent; again, it is doubtful that most employees know their supervisors' backgrounds as well as the back of their own hand. Having Director Akira provide the background is sufficient because it reiterates both the fact that sometimes, all it takes is a little more information so one doesn't judge another based on impressions alone. As previously noted, it is disrespectful to invent nicknames for the characters, not to mention obfuscating conversation. Kai's relationships are irrelevant to The Aquatope on White Sand since this isn't a love story, but supports Kukuru in his own way. Eiji and Kūya are supporting characters with differing backgrounds but share in common an extensive knowledge of marine life. Akira and Kukuru's grandfather are people who simply get the ball moving. We don't need to know everyone's lives down to the second in order to understand what their role in Kukuru's journey. The visions and kijimuna are metaphors for growth and maturity. The visions are common in the first half because Kukuru is still a child at this point in time, and the world creates miracles for her. As an adult, Kukuru is completely wrapped up in her own goals and aspirations. In doing so, she becomes too busy to see the magic in her world, but she also gives magic to others as a result of her work. The fact that the visions return in the finale is a way of saying that people who give magic to others will also receive magic in kind and be made aware of their contributions. Why not? Kukuru is very likeable and relatable. She's inexperienced and brash, but she's also determined, motivated and on more than one occasion, turns her thinking around after gaining a proper context of something. Maturity to break down a problem and approach it one step as a time is something that can be learnt over time, but a poorly motivated individual will not learn. Kukuru is passionate about marine life, and this passion pushes her further. I could say that it is fair to look down on people who look down on entire studios and genres, but that's neither here nor there. The ocean does not take a backseat in any way. Events constantly remind viewers of the interplay between humanity and the environment, and no time is wasted at all. In fact, mentioning conservation is to The Aquatope on White Sand's credit: it subtly reminds viewers of the importance of being mindful of ecosystems and not acting in a way as to cause harm, without brazenly preaching messages of environmentalism at the expense of the story. Aquarium staff are indicated to be uncommon, and Gama Gama's former staff each have relevant experience in an aquarium environment. It is logical to hire them wholesale, since they have a proven track record. Romance was never intended to be a part of The Aquatope on White Sand. Nothing in this series is ever saucy in any way, and the reason why love is mentioned periodically is because it comes up in daily conversation from time to time. Similarly to above, saying a friend said so is not exactly compelling. What were said friend's points? "Realistic" means adhering to what is reasonably expected of reality. Usually, this means events occur with a probability consistent to what one experiences. No story will be "realistic" in this sense because events are scripted to occur. However, The Aquatope on White Sand is authentic (and it is disingenuous to say otherwise): it presents a colourful (if fanciful) story of how people can come to regain their footing after suffering a great setback, and this process is helped along by both fateful encounters, as well as having a support system. Nowhere does The Aquatope on White Sand tell people to give up on their dreams: it presents the idea that the sum of one's experiences and newfound perspective helps people to determine how they can achieve their goals even if the circumstances change. Where are the sales figures? A bunch of stars and no source isn't satisfactory. One doesn't get to tell someone else to just "turn off their brain and not think". That defeats the purpose of discussion and frankly, is insulting to others. It is fair to say something was not satisfactory or meeting one's expectations, but it is not appropriate to mock other viewers by telling them to stop thinking. The Aquatope on White Sand does happen to be an anime with a meaningful theme, well-written motifs and vivid imagery that requires a modicum of skill and open-mindedness to derive a meaningful conclusion from. So, let's do away with the belief that such a condescending criticism is something all of us should have to agree with. It's one person's perspective, and I find these points unconvincing for the reasons stated. With this in mind, if there are any justifications for why one should agree with a sarcastic tone, I'd be willing to hear said justifications out.
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2022-01-26, 14:50
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Link #313 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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I'm happy to accept the validity of spoilered criticisms above without any further evidence than the show itself. No objections to underdeveloped male characters, that's par for the course with these shows, but soulless main characters, over-saintly elders and yuri-baiting are quite right. When the grandparents are presented with such unanalysed positivity (As Sui Shijima in Hanasaku absolutely was not), and exert such a large influence on Kukuru's progress, in a country where the influence of conservative older generations has had a lot to answer for, it doesn't endear this series. Simple positive values like hard work, respect for family and friendship have a habit of turning into soulless clichés, even becoming toxic in unanalysed cloying excess, if you rely on dead parents, inspirational still-born siblings, insipid spectres and platitudinous speech, especially in ep 12, rather than the intense technical detail of Shirobako, or the nuanced continuous character development of Hanasaku Iroha. Of course, it's not such a bad show, as Goblin Slayer or Shield Hero are, that there's any great problem with someone liking it; if anyone else doesn't see things the same way, I don't mind.
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2022-01-26, 15:01
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Link #314 |
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Operation sneaky sneaks
IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
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As I've said, people can be fair in their criticisms, and their position would remain valid. What isn't valid, and what I'm going after, is insulting the characters by assigning them nicknames, and insinuating that anyone who wants to like this show needs to "turn their brains off". The spoilered criticisms are invalid because they were made in bad faith, and if you're actually agreeing with that nonsense, you're not engaged in any meaningful discussions. The manner of presentation matters, and I only respect a measured approach, versus a snarky, dismissive and confrontational style that leaves no room for understanding. Is there a case where that sort of attitude is productive?
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Last edited by Infinite Zenith; 2022-05-29 at 21:10. |
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2022-01-27, 15:22
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Link #315 |
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On a mission
Author
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Not here
Age: 40
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The whole yuri-baiting criticism has gotten way out of hand. I mean sure if you wanna look at it that way, cool, but people have been accusing this show of that since the very first promotional image. Which I feel like is kind of a unfair expectation towards the show. Which is why I hate the yuri fandom at times; they just dig at every chance at yuri, even if it's complete crap like Citrus. Granted a lot of yuri and yaoi "baits" are often just exploitative crap and are just straight people writing other people.
This coming from the dude with at least 4 (maybe 5) favorite female characters that are probably gay and resented most of their shows for treating non-herteronormative relations as fake news. (Although, not by Kyoani usually somehow )I mean it's not like fuckin shows where they literally show more affection than some hetero couples show and show's like "no, it's just youth!" Point is I hate queer baiting a ton, and probably would have picked it up really fast.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2022-01-27 at 15:33. |
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2022-01-27, 16:10
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Link #316 |
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Operation sneaky sneaks
IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
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The "baiting" is definitely an unreasonable criticism of Shiroi Suna no Aquatope in that from day one, this was sold as a coming-of-age workplace drama and not a romance. If a work is strictly presented as a romance, then yes, it is fair to expect that the story revolve entirely amount relationships and the like. But this isn't the case here. That being said, saying one wanted yuri in Shiroi Suna no Aquatope is fine, but assigning characters degrading nicknames when one's expectations weren't met isn't fine.
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2022-01-27, 16:55
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Link #317 |
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Yurifag
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Kharkiv, Ukraine / Barcelona, Spain
Age: 35
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Talking about different optinions. Apparently, Japaneese portal Myjitsu was very harsh about Aquatop and latest P.A. Works orignals in general prompting that they should go with adaptations instead.
I personally think that originals of this type is the thing they do the best, but seems like a lot of people disagree with it.
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2022-01-27, 16:59
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Link #318 |
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Operation sneaky sneaks
IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
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I'm of a similar mind, but at the end of the day, money will talk. That said, if P.A. Works does good adaptations, I won't complain
 Besides, the locations will probably be on point: I did a look around of the spots seen in Aquatope on White Sand, and it is stunning as to how true-to-life the anime spots are.
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2022-01-27, 17:04
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Link #319 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
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The "yuri-bait" vs coming-of-age argument is a deflection of the actual criticisms that this show completely and totally deserves.
It is inconsistent, muddled, unfocused, and ultimately mediocre. One of P.A. Works weaker offerings despite a strong first cour that showed promise. The series soured many viewers in the second half because it failed on basic storyboarding and character development grounds between the two cours. Who was the main character? Kukuru? Fuuka? Both? An ensemble like Sakura Quest or Shirobako?
Inconsistencies in tone and focus between the two cours. The series felt like two different series welded together for convenience in character design and locations. They have almost nothing to do with each other in tone or consistency of character besides sharing the same character designs and names. I'd compare this abrupt swap to Gatekeepers and Gatekeepers 21.
The series actively deflates its own tension in the second cour. Introduce a conflict, immediately and effortless resolve it without the leads being challenged in any way to contribute to that resolution. Good coming-of-age series do not do this. They give their leads obstacles to overcome. Some that linger. Aquatope's second cour does not do this. I've called it cowardly writing before and I stand by that statement.
By the end of the first cour, this was one of my favorite series of the season. I was very interested with what they were going to do with the second cour being a time-jump. Within four episodes of the second cour, it had dropped to the very bottom of my list. |
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2022-01-27, 17:13
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Link #320 |
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Operation sneaky sneaks
IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
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Except the show isn't deserving of the specific criticisms in question, which are immature, boorish and pulled out of that individual's ass. Who are these "many" viewers beside the one snide, uninformed and idiotic viewer who tried to act like they were the sole authority on things here? Are you an authority on what basic storyboarding is? Do you have a formal background in writing as to lend weight to your claims, or are you also arguing from your own subjective opinion? If you lack the formal background, your position has no greater weight than mine.
Now, since you're having considerable trouble understanding things, this series was about both Fūka and Kukuru. They're two halves of a whole, whose opposite backgrounds and traits complement one another and allow them to spur one another on. People aren't going to be in control of every step of their lives. Kukuru in the second half was overwhelmed and needed supporting, much as how Fūka had been lost in the first half and found support through Kukuru. Also, "put on a bus" is a trope. We don't use that here, as they're not valid, recognised literary devices. The elements have not been abandoned, you just happened to forget about them. The transition from a smaller scale aquarium to a business is reconciled remarkably well in this series, and true to real life, not every single little thing will have resolution. The elements that are covered are covered well, unless they happen to run contrary to what your expectations of reality are like. That you feel the need to skip the details shows there is no evidence. I invite you to prove me wrong and provide every last detail to show otherwise. Finally, hard work runs over time. The work Kukuru put in during the first half contributes to how she's able to handle things in the second half. You are, by all means, free to believe what you want. However, I expect a semblance of effort: if you're agreeing with that one individual just because they happen to align with you and saying their snide, sarcastic, and frankly, idiotic remarks have merit, you're in the wrong place.
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Last edited by Infinite Zenith; 2022-05-29 at 21:42. |
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