Toradora! - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I disagree with this practice. Episode threads are the one place we can be free of too many spoilers. What's the point of a separate thread, otherwise?

I'm not sure why people who haven't seen an episode want to discuss it, anyway. If they do want to, perhaps they can do it as speculation in the thread for the previous episode.

My understanding is that spoilers are not officially required for info from a particular episode in its own thread. Spoilers are definitely not the custom in some episode threads. There is no mention of them in the first post of this thread, only a caution against spoilers containing info about future events. I had this discussion before elsewhere a number of months ago, and came away with the impression that spoilers were not required in episode threads, except when the denizens of a particular thread prefer them. I vote no.

Wouldnt that spoil the surprise?
I remember last year, that we have to wait until the subs were out, did the policy chnage?


stormy001_M1A2

In this moment, Taiga is clearly in the wrong. Ryuji's action is understandable. If he slapped her, it will be perfectly natural.

frubam

Honestly, I was unimpressed by this episode, except the Ryuuji/Taiga moments. Well, 2/11 eps with stupid non-Minorin buffoonery isn't bad, considering how good the others were to me.

This clearly shows that Ryuuji can literally man-handle Taiga when he gets angry. I actually thought he was gonna hit her , I was really surprised.

Still, even if he was mad, I do think that he was a little rough on her. My opinion is, if a guy was that mad there are other ways to handle that negativity. Funny if I was Taiga I would kick Ryuuji in the #$%!!!

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I disagree with this practice. Episode threads are the one place we can be free of too many spoilers. What's the point of a separate thread, otherwise?

I'm not sure why people who haven't seen an episode want to discuss it, anyway. If they do want to, perhaps they can do it as speculation in the thread for the previous episode.

My understanding is that spoilers are not officially required for info from a particular episode in its own thread. Spoilers are definitely not the custom in some episode threads. There is no mention of them in the first post of this thread, only a caution against spoilers containing info about future events. I had this discussion before elsewhere a number of months ago, and came away with the impression that spoilers were not required in episode threads, except when the denizens of a particular thread prefer them. I vote no.

Off topic: There's no voting to be done... the mods have spoken and they favor you. Some of us just seem to remember that it used to be policy that the threads were to be spoilered in that short period between air time and the first fansub release (whether subforum-ep-thread or series-thread). The mods remember differently. So basically as soon as it airs, people can start chatting about the contents.


On topic: Ryuuji man-handling Taiga really dialed up the seriousness of the saga. Brought back an old memory of me as a teen trying to get under control a younger really petite cousin who was having a major emotional outburst. I was having serious concerns that I'd accidentally break her trying to get her back to some sort of rationality. So my teeth were gritting through that scene. On the other hand, I wasn't particularly mad *at* her, though I was angry she was so out of control.

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Off topic: There's no voting to be done... the mods have spoken and they favor you. Some of us just seem to remember that it used to be policy that the threads were to be spoilered in that short period between air time and the first fansub release (whether subforum-ep-thread or series-thread). The mods remember differently. So basically as soon as it airs, people can start chatting about the contents.


On topic: Ryuuji man-handling Taiga really dialed up the seriousness of the saga. Brought back an old memory of me as a teen trying to get under control a younger really petite cousin who was having a major emotional outburst. I was having serious concerns that I'd accidentally break her trying to get her back to some sort of rationality. So my teeth were gritting through that scene. On the other hand, I wasn't particularly mad *at* her, though I was angry she was so out of control.

Taiga was not out of control, she was clearly didnt want to do anything with her dad. Perhaps maybe later she can deal with him, but at that moment it shows she wanted to get away from him. I dont think Ryuuji has the right to interfere with that at the moment, he is seriously emotionally involve with his own "dad" issues.

But...
At least she still have a father that want to make amends with her, so it shows how much Ryuuji loves Taiga.... darn I just contradict myself now... still he could have handle it with less force though.

[evil|plushie]

Man, i really hate it when characters treat their parents like walking ATMs.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

Taiga was not out of control, she was clearly didnt want to do anything with her dad. Perhaps maybe later she can deal with him, but at that moment it shows she wanted to get away from him. I dont think Ryuuji has the right to interfere with that at the moment, he is seriously emotionally involve with his own "dad" issues.

But...
At least she still have a father that want to make amends with her, so it shows how much Ryuuji loves Taiga.... darn I just contradict myself now... still he could have handle it with less force though.

aye, I understood that Taiga wasn't out of control so much as she didn't want to be around her dad and that Ryuuji was projecting his own baggage.... just another example of why people often have so much trouble communicating. It was just that him gripping her like he did kind of flashed that memory up for me. Taiga is just so... well I would be sad if he accidentally really hurt her.

[typhonsentra]

They cut out most of the conversation between Ryuuji and taiga's dad at the cafe which I feel was a mistake. A lot of what was cut was stuff that humanized him such as a slightly longer explanation of what happened between him and Taiga along with some of the awkward small talk which established a connection between him and Ryuuji. I realize they probably thought their conversation about interior decorating would be boring for the audience but it worked very well I thought, it's something they both had interest in.

[Master Chibi]

Originally Posted by typhonsentra

They cut out most of the conversation between Ryuuji and taiga's dad at the cafe which I feel was a mistake. A lot of what was cut was stuff that humanized him such as a slightly longer explanation of what happened between him and Taiga along with some of the awkward small talk which established a connection between him and Ryuuji. I realize they probably thought their conversation about interior decorating would be boring for the audience but it worked very well I thought, it's something they both had interest in.

I thought as much, I didn't really side very much with the father after the conversation, so I imagined there was more meat to the entire ordeal.

Still, the last 2-3 minutes of this episode was crazy, very gripping.

[Caster13]

It's wonderful to see Ryuuji being genuinely and seriously selfish for once, even if he's simply unconsciously projecting onto Taiga. At the same time, however, Ryuuji wanting the relationship between Taiga and her father healed could end up pulling Taiga away from Ryuuji. I think Taiga realizes this and that might be one reason why she's tried so hard to keep her father away.

There's no doubt the fight between Ryuuji and Taiga at the end of the episode is the most powerful scene of the episode, if not the series so far. Every time Taiga screamed "I don't need him!" I wished that she'd reveal all of her feelings and say "I need you" instead.

I can't wait for the next episode.

Addendum:

Originally Posted by germanturkey

and you could see that Taiga had hand marks on her wrist. thats good detail from the animators.

Missed that on the first watch of the episode. Intense!

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by Vexx

aye, I understood that Taiga wasn't out of control so much as she didn't want to be around her dad and that Ryuuji was projecting his own baggage.... just another example of why people often have so much trouble communicating. It was just that him gripping her like he did kind of flashed that memory up for me. Taiga is just so... well I would be sad if he accidentally really hurt her.

I hear ya. It was shocking for me to see that. When I watched it the 2nd time, true, Ryuuji has his own dad issues, I believe he realized it when he let go from Taiga. Yet at the same time He question himself, WHY? WHY HE IS DOING THIS FOR HER? Man!!! Ryuuji just say to Taiga I love you and get it own with the rest of your lives ^^

Originally Posted by Caster13

It's wonderful to see Ryuuji being genuinely and seriously selfish for once, even if he's simply unconsciously projecting onto Taiga. At the same time, however, Ryuuji wanting the relationship between Taiga and her father healed could end up pulling Taiga away from Ryuuji. I think Taiga realizes this and that might be one reason why she's tried so hard to keep her father away.

There's no doubt the fight between Ryuuji and Taiga at the end of the episode is the most powerful scene of the episode, if not the series so far. Every time Taiga screamed "I don't need him!" I wished that she'd reveal all of her feelings and say "I need you" instead.

I can't wait for the next episode.

I believe Taiga and Ryuuji are at a point in their relationship that they could heal each other, specially letting their love to blossom even further.

[Haesslich]

If they'd kept the details of the conversation in, or covered it a tad more... it would help explain why Ryuuji was so.. intense about wanting Taiga to talk to her dad, beyond his own 'Dad Issues' - since he's actually had a chance to meet the guy, find some common ground, and realize he's not a complete bastard as his own dad was (or so Ryuuji feels), even if he screwed up raising Taiga and then effectively abandoning her for his new wife.

... and still, this is a pleasant change, seeing him less than perfectly in control of himself for once. That, and it should help neuter the arguments about how Ryuuji is a horribly passive character; he really isn't, and he isn't afraid to stand up to Taiga when he thinks it's something important.

[satuross]

Ryuuji just say to Taiga I love you

except that its not what he wants (and its certainly not what WE want, we want MORE toradora :P ).... for now.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

Wouldnt that spoil the surprise?
I remember last year, that we have to wait until the subs were out, did the policy chnage?


stormy001_M1A2


frubam


Still, even if he was mad, I do think that he was a little rough on her. My opinion is, if a guy was that mad there are other ways to handle that negativity. Funny if I was Taiga I would kick Ryuuji in the #$%!!!

In this scene, Taiga is not listening to reason anymore and try to bully her way out of it. Sometimes, force has to be met with force for right cause. I don't see how Ryuji was wrong in this part. Is your adoration for Taiga blinded you to what is right or wrong?

The manhandling is mild, considering most people will just slap Taiga silly in similar situation. I know I would.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by satuross

except that its not what he wants (and its certainly not what WE want, we want MORE toradora :P ).... for now.

I agree, if everything went perfect there would be no more show to watch.

In this scene, Taiga is not listening to reason anymore and try to bully her way out of it. Sometimes, force has to be met with force for right cause. I don't see how Ryuji was wrong in this part. Is your adoration for Taiga blinded you to what is right or wrong?

The manhandling is mild, considering most people will just slap Taiga silly in similar situation. I know I would.

True, but you have to understand; even if it was an intense moment, both have a strong relationship. If Ryuuji had not known Taiga then, he would have let his emotions of his own father get the better of him, maybe leading to a "rougher" result. Ryuuji understood that Taiga was no stranger, so he simply wanted her to understand the situation, not to strangle her for her lack of filial piety.


In other news, I'm suspicious of Taiga's father's real motives for returning. He has a hunny who he loves and wanted to marry. Why would he suddenly have a change of heart and decide to leave her and return to his daughter?

If it was the opposite, where its EXACTLY because his girlfriend left him that her came back to Taiga, then he wouldn't be worth my pity.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

In this scene, Taiga is not listening to reason anymore and try to bully her way out of it. Sometimes, force has to be met with force for right cause. I don't see how Ryuji was wrong in this part. Is your adoration for Taiga blinded you to what is right or wrong?

Right and wrong are subjective in this instant as there are two stances: a)Not use "harsh" physical means and b) to use as much force as necessary for her to listen. Personally, I think it's justified what Ryuuji did but not right. I don't think Taiga ever tried to use that kind of force in a serious situation like that against Ryuuji, so I feel he shouldn't have either.

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

In other news, I'm suspicious of Taiga's father's real motives for returning. He has a hunny who he loves and wanted to marry. Why would he suddenly have a change of heart and decide to leave her and return to his daughter?

If it was the opposite, where its EXACTLY because his girlfriend left him that her came back to Taiga, then he wouldn't be worth my pity.

I think so too. I mean, he withdrew all of his money from that account, just so she would be forced to meet him. That doesn't seem like somethng a credible father would do, I would at least expect him to visit her condo or something first, before taking such measures.

[Vexx]

"right or wrong".... the world is not binary. It comes in shades and ripples. Ryuuji did what he thought was the best course; Taiga was doing what she thought was the best course. "best course" does not always equal "right" and sometimes equals collision --- asian literature is full of conflicting motives more often than "good" or "bad".

I'm VERY suspicious of her dad's motives. First off, taking her money, probably leading to dropping her apartment --- all points to either he being in financial straits OR his new hunny wanting that money for herself. Forcing her to come home would be the next step. I don't know how much their high school costs (japanese high schools are like college - there is tuition for the better ones with entrance exams) but forcing her into public school (bottom tier) would be next. I speculate a lot more drama .... perhaps including the biological Taiga-mom getting involved at some point.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by Vexx

...First off, taking her money...

He took her money, but he still gave her the dough at the end. I don't think he's in any financial crisis, judging from the car he still has and his willingness to return his daughter's allowance.

But i agree with ya Vexx, he might be using the allowance to threaten his daughter into making concessions with him.

From what i see, the situation could split into three paths:

1) Taiga reconciles with her father, and she most likely will live somewhere else close-by (or else its bye-bye to Taiga), or her father moves in. This leads to a the Taiga-Ryuuji relation ship to take a hit to some extent.

2) Taiga does not yield, and her father would maybe cut off her allowance. This will cause her to be completely reliant on Ryuuji, strengthening their relationship. (Although its unlikely the dad would be so evil even if she refused to acknowledge him.)

3) The directors take an unexpected plot twist (Maybe Taiga's dad receiving an injury and she softens her heart, although a bit cliche), solving everybodys' problems and making all viewers happy, just like they always do.

[Caster13]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

I believe Taiga and Ryuuji are at a point in their relationship that they could heal each other, specially letting their love to blossom even further.

I agree. If something drastic and sudden happens, forcing Taiga and Ryuuji to depend on each other to the most extremes of situations, I think the two will be able to hold each other together and come through just fine.

But, of course, TV show plot-timing aside , not many people would take a leap of faith off a cliff unless they really, really have to. Not time for that just yet!

[stormy001_M1A2]

The fact her father has to cut her allowance off shows how serious he is in meeting Taiga. We all can see it both ways; cynically so he can spend on himself or more hopefully it is a ploy by him to meet his estranged daughter for reconciliation.

[NighAligned]

Hi everyone. New poster.

My first impression of Taiga's father is that he is just a flake who let his new, young wife control him. Maybe he really did come to his senses and wants to get back with his daughter, although there sure could be an ulterior motive. Mind you, I am reading the sub and have not read the manga, so I may be missing something.

I'm also curious about Taiga's intentions, right after Ryuuji's outburst about his own father. Is she giving her father another chance just for Ryuuji's sake? It seems like it. Also, why didn't her father hire someone like a maid or female chaperon to live with her? No wonder she spends so much time at Ryuji's house.

I found most of the episode a little slow but overall I liked it and am loving the show.

[KingOfWorlds]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

Taiga was not out of control, she was clearly didnt want to do anything with her dad. Perhaps maybe later she can deal with him, but at that moment it shows she wanted to get away from him. I dont think Ryuuji has the right to interfere with that at the moment, he is seriously emotionally involve with his own "dad" issues.

But...
At least she still have a father that want to make amends with her, so it shows how much Ryuuji loves Taiga.... darn I just contradict myself now... still he could have handle it with less force though.

I think Ryuuji did have the right. He was involved the moment SHE TOLD HIM to go meet her dad, and her dad told him the situation. BOTH TAIGA AND HER FATHER INVOLVED RYUUJI so yeah, if they didnt want it to be any of there business neither one of them should have told him anything.

And besides Ryuuji even after Ryuuji could have chose to NOT get involved and leave it alone but he didn't. And Why? because he wants to help his FRIEND ... how is that wrong? its sad people feel that way ... thats why alot of (Not all) friendships dont last now. People vent to their friends, then get mad when they try to help if their not saying what they want to hear.

Ryuuji is a good friend and he really cares ... thats why he got involved. That's like you knowing somebody is about to be murdered ... that has nothing to do with you but you'll probably go tell the police (anonymous probably lol) because you feel compelled to do so. Same here ... Ryuuji feels compelled to help his friend put, not just her family, but basically her life back in order (from all the shit he done for her so far).