[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 6 Dawn of the golden witch

[Kylon99]

... isn't this the EP6 thread? Maybe we should talk about other stuff in the Spoilers and Speculations thread...

EDIT: I'll quote Pikumin over there.

[Will Wright]

Originally Posted by Judoh

I just don't get why you like Krauss Culprit so much. I've never seen anything substantial come from it at all. In fact he dies just about as often as Natsuhi does.

But as a comedy theory...

There is no substance in it whatsoever. I just like Krauss, so I wish that he were the culprit even though there is nothing to back this theory up.

[Pikumin]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

But he dies in the First Twilight. What did he help with?

This is where things start to get complicated. My theory is that Yasu never intends for anyone to die, and she just wants people to fake their deaths. However, due to the bad blood between the siblings, and the enormous amount of money involved, the adults actually begin to kill people(and there may be other motives for them to kill each other too, you can speculate forever).

For example, for Krauss' death, I suspect that in the scene with the gold bar he is actually telling Natsuhi about Yasu's plan and how he wants her play along with it too. Proud, easily offended Natsuhi is disgusted with Krauss' lack of pride and his disloyalty to the Ushiromiya family name, they argue, things escalate, and Natsuhi ends up killing him(I'm guessing she shoots him in the face at the dining table, since blood is found there). I know that's a stretch, but we know that on the first night, they weren't getting on well(I also thought she was acting suspiciously calm during the scene when the bodies were found in the shed, and I don't think she is the kind of person who would act this way if anyone other than herself killed her husband).

But wait this is EP6 thread

[serverwolf]

Originally Posted by delita-umw-

@serverwolf: But the one who claims to be Beatrice pretty much has no motivation to be the killer. Theres the entire scene with Virgillia and Battler to back that up. So what we can draw from this is either "Beatrice" is at best an accomplice/someone drawn into the plot to murder or is trying to cover up for someone else. If you're referring to the true culprit who is most likely manipulating "Beatrice" or otherwise using the legend of Beatrice, why not just call them the culprit?

but if that's true (beatrice is covering for someone) its make even less sense O.O
i mean, beatrice pretty much hints us who it is. i know that if i were to cover for someone, i would shut up about it.
but 'she' wrote EP1 and probebly EP2 too.

(also i think i found something intristing, 'endless witch' is what you call someone who can repetadly do something right? 'beatrice' gained that title only in the 2nd EP!, so the 'endless' part is for the secound vrsion of the stroy <the 2nd truth>. after 'she' wrote the secound Episode she gained the power of an endless creator.)

[Cao Ni Ma]

Beatrice always had the title "Endless" its just that she needs someone to create an Original story first and then she can spin it endlessly into different versions.

[AuraTwilight]

but if that's true (beatrice is covering for someone) its make even less sense O.O
i mean, beatrice pretty much hints us who it is. i know that if i were to cover for someone, i would shut up about it.
but 'she' wrote EP1 and probebly EP2 too.

You say that as if Beatrice hasn't been contradicting herself every step in this story.

[delita-umw-]

Serverwolf, in that situation, you probably would wanna keep it quiet. But look at it another way, if you wanna hide a culprit, isn't a good way to do it also to hide them amongst an entire forest of seemingly guilty people. By writing two stories and prodding fakers to write more stories about the incident, she could easily make it impossible to tell who really did it. From this perspective, do you agree there's merit to the idea?

[UsagiTenpura]

Well before the message from the bottles first appeared none believed it was murders to begin with (except maybe Ange...). So the idea Beatrice is trying to protect someone is somewhat nonsensical to me.

[Renall]

In Ange's 1998, most people still do not believe there were any murders. Only a fringe group (and Ange) believes that. So if the goal was to make everyone believe in murders, that failed. If the goal was to conceal a culprit, that was basically successful anyway (as no one believes there was one, and none of the people who believe it seem interested in figuring it out).

That pretty much narrows down "intended for purpose, effective at that purpose" to the message bottles being an actual message to a person or group of people.

[UsagiTenpura]

You know who's sorta suspicious about that? Nanjo's son.
He claims he doesn't believe it was murder so vehemently yet, I mean, put yourself in his shoes.

Your father dies in an explosion. Explosions are not natural phenomenon but can be accidents, that's fine, but if it was my father I'd want to make sure it was one.

But then he gets a letter, a very suspicious letter he knows wasn't written by his father. He looks it up further and finds what he himself called dirty money.

It feels like he's been told to shut up by someone rather then honestly believing what he claims.

[AuraTwilight]

Or maybe he hates his dad, ruining the family business with his complete lack of any sort of medical training.

[Cao Ni Ma]

Its not Nanjo's fault that he's being manipulated by a witch

[Judoh]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Or maybe he hates his dad, ruining the family business with his complete lack of any sort of medical training.

Nice.

But His Dad was retired at that point. So Nanjo Jr. most likely already inherited the clinic before the Rokkenjima accident.

[delita-umw-]

Great guys, thanks a lot. Here we go again with the whole "look at the bigger picture" and "your logic is flawed" business. I don't approve, not one bit!

Also, wouldn't receiving the money instantly ring warnings of gang/yakuza involvement? Even if Nanjo's son believes its all a murder conspiracy contrary to what he says, do you really think he'd say anything about it? What good would come of him saying he believes it was all murder anyway?

[AuraTwilight]

Well, he could atleast fucking mention it to the Ushiromiya family member who's investigating what happened and has absolutely no reason (if not an 100% compelling reason not to) to rat him out to anyone who could hurt him.

I mean, there's being pressured to be quiet, and there's being quiet just to be a dick and fucking over an investigation looking into who killed his own damn father.

[delita-umw-]

It's not like the only way he could be found out is if Ange ratted him out. Besides, what do you think he really expects from Ange's "investigation?" From his point of view, there are several hard facts:
a) his father died in what the police determined was an accident b) following the accident, he received a package of very suspect money c) its been years since the incident and any evidence that would point to a murder that the police could have missed would likely have degraded beyond recovery at this point d) this girl who claims to be the last surviving Ushiromiya (which he can't immediately confirm having never met her before) claims to be trying to investigate the accident with the off hope that it was really a murder

Maybe he's a fatalist or extremely paranoid, but can you really call him a dick for either being on his guard or resigning to the fact that the most likely explanation is the one the police provided?

[UsagiTenpura]

He wouldn't have called the money dirty money or would've been scared to use any of it if he didn't already pretty much guessed it was murder.

You're acting as if that letter and money was a very minor thing.

[delita-umw-]

I think I worded that rather poorly. I never meant to say that he doesn't suspect murder. As you point out, the letter and the money scream murder and if he couldn't see that then he'd be as terrible at connecting the dots as Nanjo was at practicing medicine. My point was that Nanjo jr (w/e the hell his name is) has several reasons to STATE that he believes its an accident.

[AuraTwilight]

And he has many more reasons not to state so.

[delita-umw-]

Really? I guess I fail hard, cause outside of being really driven to find out the truth, I don't see much going for that. What does Nanjo jr. gain by telling Ange what he really thinks about the incident when he already knows she has an opinion on it?

I guess what I've really been trying to say is that Nanjo jr has provided Ange with information she didn't have before even though he states that he believes the entire thing was an accident, so why do you guys think he's so suspicious?