Dating

[LeoXiao]

I never understood why having a girl become your friend means there's no chance for a relationship. It seems logical (and on the converse, totally stupid) that you would marry someone you liked regardless of whether they were your "friend" or "girlfriend." My parents were never really "in a relationship" before they married and they're not particularly odd people; I don't see where the notion that you can't get in a relationship with a friend of the opposite sex comes from.


On another note, I think the reason why girls throw 'smokescreens" at guys is because they themselves want to get attention from guys whilst at the same time not actually getting into a relationship. This kind of behavior seems pretty despicable, so it's probably an unconscious happening.

[stubby42]

Not that anythings on the cards at the moment but what would you guys do in this situation.

I live in the UK and I'm currently single and I have been for a while, partly because for the past two years I've been spliting the year, the first half in the UK and the second half in Canada.

Right now I'm back in the UK for a big stint, I dont really want to be here but for various reasons (ok so its really only one reason, money a.k.a I dont have it) I'm going to be here for just over a year and then I'll be back in Canada for a start on a three year long stint that could turn into full time residence.

What am I supposed to do if a relationship comes up given the fact that its my dream to live in Canada (something I've been working towards for two years already) and have no intention of moving back to the UK unless I'm forced to?

[whitepearl]

I wouldn't mind meanness as I could easily counter that lol xp

If there was one thing that drives me insane the most, it is when people spend too much time answering circuitously. Just get to the point.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

I never understood why having a girl become your friend means there's no chance for a relationship. It seems logical (and on the converse, totally stupid) that you would marry someone you liked regardless of whether they were your "friend" or "girlfriend." My parents were never really "in a relationship" before they married and they're not particularly odd people; I don't see where the notion that you can't get in a relationship with a friend of the opposite sex comes from.

The ladder theory, maybe? If I understood it correctly, it is said that once you enter the friendzone, it's over, you can never be her lover.

I already replied to that, since I know a few couples that don't fit that theory.

But even if friendship can, imo, evolve in deep love ; it can also happen that people misunderstood one's actions from a friend. And it's not only about boys towards women. For example, the married boy i talked about recently in this thread is very nice, to the point that there were girls who fell in love with him and assumed that he had possibly some romantic feelings for them. It ended with him getting all "????????" because he never had romantic thoughts in mind towards them.

Originally Posted by whitepearl

If there was one thing that drives me insane the most, it is when people spend too much time answering circuitously. Just get to the point.

Same here xD. It doesn't drive me insane but I dislike when people don't get to the point clearly.

As we say in France, "ne tournez pas autour du pot !"

[Shinoto]

Did she say something like this?
I really like you. I do. You're so nice, and sweet, and you listen to all my problems and respond with the appropriate compliments. But, well, I don't really see a relationship in our future. It would be terrible if we let sex destroy this great friendship we have where I get everything I want and you get nothing you want. Don't you think?

I knew you would understand. You always do.

We're so perfect as friends, you know? I can tell you anything, and you know you can always come to me anytime you need to hear me bitch about work or how ugly I feel. You wouldn't want to ruin a friendship like that just so you could be my boyfriend, and have me look at you with desire and longing in my eyes, if only once—would you? Of course not. Well, if we started dating, it would only complicate this wonderful setup I've got going here.

It's just…you're like my best friend, and I would hate for something you desperately want to change that. I mean, sure, we could go on some dates, maybe mess around a little and finally validate the six years you've spent languishing in this platonic nightmare, but then what? How could we ever go back to the way we were, where I take advantage of your clear attraction to me so I can have someone at my beck and call? That part of our friendship means so much to me.

No. We are just destined to be really, really good friends who only hang out when I don't have a boyfriend, but still need male attention to boost my fragile and all-consuming ego.

Anything can happen once you bring romance in. Think about how awful my last relationship was at the end, remember? The guy I'd call you crying about at 3 a.m. because he wouldn't answer my texts? The guy I met at the birthday party you threw me? I had insanely passionate sex with him for four months and now we don't even talk anymore. God, I would die if something like that happened to us.

Plus, ick, can you even imagine getting naked in front of each other? I've known you so long, you're more like a brother that I've drunkenly made out with twice and never mentioned again. It'd be way too weird. And if we did, then whenever you'd come shopping with me, or go to one of my performances or charity events, or take me for ice cream when I've had a bad day at work, you'd be looking at me like, "I've seen her breasts." God, I can't think of anything more awkward that that.

Oh, before I forget, my mom says hi.

Anyway, you would totally hate me as your girlfriend. I'd be all needy and dramatic and slowly growing to love you. If I was your girlfriend, I would never be able to tell you all about the other asshole guys I date and pretend I don't see how much it crushes you. Let's never lose that. That's what makes us us.

Don't worry. You're so funny and smart and amazing, any girl but me would be lucky to date you. You'll find someone, I know it. And when you do, I'll be right by your side to suddenly become all flirty and affectionate with you in front of her, until she grows jealous and won't believe it when you say we're just friends. But when she dumps you, that's just what we'll be.

Best friends. Friends forever.

Because if she did, The Onion beat her too it

Now if want to add a cherry on top to it all
Say" We'll I have plenty of friends already"after she is done giving you the friend's speech.

[whitepearl]

Originally Posted by Narona

Same here xD. It doesn't drive me insane but I dislike when people don't get to the point clearly.

As we say in France, "ne tournez pas autour du pot !"

A friend of mine would send me an IM saying he would tell me something but spends 10+ IMs telling fluff crap for "back story"

Just as bad is when people get to the point the first time but keep talking and repeating themselves. My mom does this all the time

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by Narona

I don't say you're wrong, but that's what some boys tend to assume too much. I don't see what in her reply:



Could imply that. King Lycan will have to tell us "how" she said it (the tone she used can give a lot of informations), and if she said something else.
I know what I mean since it happened that i gave that answer, and in my case it was not "i fear for our friendship", it was just "i never felt anything romantic for you".

I just told her that
"That she was always on my mind" at like 2am in the morning i was feeling sappy

She replied
"Thats sweet but idk i don't want you to the get the wrong idea.. I just want to be friends"

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by stubby42

Not that anythings on the cards at the moment but what would you guys do in this situation.
...
What am I supposed to do if a relationship comes up given the fact that its my dream to live in Canada (something I've been working towards for two years already) and have no intention of moving back to the UK unless I'm forced to?

There are a lot of variables to that, but let's start with one bit of reasoning: what if you meet "your one and only"? How much does true love and having a lifelong companion matter to you compared to where you live?

To me, I don't care where I am. I may prefer some climates over others, but I've never cared or had an idea of where I wanted to be - only what I wanted to do. Therefore, a relationship (a really solid one) trumps location. However, you do have to consider whether you might be miserable at a certain place. After all, if you're miserable and you're there because of your other half, then you'll likely become resentful.

But it doesn't have to be so black and white. If you've truly found that perfect relationship, there's a good chance that your mate will heavily consider moving with you, especially if it means a lot to you.

In your case specifically, the big question is whether you can really evaluate whether someone is truly right for you within the relatively short period of time that you'll be stuck in the UK. It's possible (especially if you've truly found "the one") but in most cases, that's probably not enough time.

If I were you, unless I found a girl that I liked who also was trying to get to Canada, I'd hold off on any serious relationships. Distance is a rotten thing to deal with when you're crazy about someone. Save yourself the trouble. Even if you linked with someone and decided that you'd return to the UK eventually, you're returning to Canada to finish your studies, right? And you'll be there for three years? So that's a forced separation right there, during which you'll be tormented and your relationship (which will only be a year old, if that) will be stressed, perhaps to the point of falling apart.

But then again, that's all planning from a logical stand point. As the saying goes, "Man tries to plan, and God just laughs." Life is unpredictable and you can never know what's coming your way. Try to look ahead, but ultimately do what you think is right.

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Shinoto

Did she say something like this?
I really like you. I do. You're so nice, and sweet, and you listen to all my problems and respond with the appropriate compliments. But, well, I don't really see a relationship in our future. It would be terrible if we let sex destroy this great friendship we have where I get everything I want and you get nothing you want. Don't you think?

I knew you would understand. You always do.

We're so perfect as friends, you know? I can tell you anything, and you know you can always come to me anytime you need to hear me bitch about work or how ugly I feel. You wouldn't want to ruin a friendship like that just so you could be my boyfriend, and have me look at you with desire and longing in my eyes, if only once—would you? Of course not. Well, if we started dating, it would only complicate this wonderful setup I've got going here.

It's just…you're like my best friend, and I would hate for something you desperately want to change that. I mean, sure, we could go on some dates, maybe mess around a little and finally validate the six years you've spent languishing in this platonic nightmare, but then what? How could we ever go back to the way we were, where I take advantage of your clear attraction to me so I can have someone at my beck and call? That part of our friendship means so much to me.

No. We are just destined to be really, really good friends who only hang out when I don't have a boyfriend, but still need male attention to boost my fragile and all-consuming ego.

Anything can happen once you bring romance in. Think about how awful my last relationship was at the end, remember? The guy I'd call you crying about at 3 a.m. because he wouldn't answer my texts? The guy I met at the birthday party you threw me? I had insanely passionate sex with him for four months and now we don't even talk anymore. God, I would die if something like that happened to us.

Plus, ick, can you even imagine getting naked in front of each other? I've known you so long, you're more like a brother that I've drunkenly made out with twice and never mentioned again. It'd be way too weird. And if we did, then whenever you'd come shopping with me, or go to one of my performances or charity events, or take me for ice cream when I've had a bad day at work, you'd be looking at me like, "I've seen her breasts." God, I can't think of anything more awkward that that.

Oh, before I forget, my mom says hi.

Anyway, you would totally hate me as your girlfriend. I'd be all needy and dramatic and slowly growing to love you. If I was your girlfriend, I would never be able to tell you all about the other asshole guys I date and pretend I don't see how much it crushes you. Let's never lose that. That's what makes us us.

Don't worry. You're so funny and smart and amazing, any girl but me would be lucky to date you. You'll find someone, I know it. And when you do, I'll be right by your side to suddenly become all flirty and affectionate with you in front of her, until she grows jealous and won't believe it when you say we're just friends. But when she dumps you, that's just what we'll be.

Best friends. Friends forever.

Because if she did, The Onion beat her too it

Now if want to add a cherry on top to it all
Say" We'll I have plenty of friends already"after she is done giving you the friend's speech.

I was about to say 'wow, bitter much?"
But then realised that its a parody anyways.

Thing is, espeically with the part I singled out, that kinda stuff maybe you'll hear from teenage girls more than people in their mid-late 20's (for some reason, we're more happy to take the risk) - but it's out of fear.

The fear of risking what you've already established to go further against the fear of it not working out and losing it all.
Not everyone can be friends with their ex's, not all break ups are even friendly and you end up hating each other because emotions run deep.

Moments like that, some girls don't wanna chance and thus use the friend level as an emotional barrier.
There are the bitter, shallow girls like the Onion parody, sometimes methinks you should just tell them to their faces plainly:

"Sorry, I can't be a 'friend' only to you. I actually wanna f*ck you.
I want to make love to you, look after you, dedicate my life to you and it kills me to pretend otherwise.
If you truly can't see me as a man and not as your 'best buddy', then this is where we say goodbye."

Yeah yeah, she'll be shocked, may slap you, etc, but she'll be majorly disillusioned, shaken and forced to look at you in a different way.
Whether she really feels "creeped out" by it or begins changing her thoughts of you over the weeks, is also a risk many men are afraid of finding out with and remain silent.

If after confessing and she truly and sincerely views you as a friend but doesn't abuse you in terms of telling her exploits with bad guys and supports you, then it's for the guy to decide if he can continue on this level or walk away.
Those who walk away... I dunno... maybe sometimes it'll work out better cause the girl's lost a friendship, which he obviously values so it's a quick harsh lesson that to befriend guys to the level of emotional support carries a risk of something developing further.

Some girls don't realise it or even see it, at the loss of a good person, perhaps they'll open their eyes more and spout out less of the:

We're so perfect as friends, you know? I can tell you anything, and you know you can always come to me anytime you need to hear me bitch about work or how ugly I feel. You wouldn't want to ruin a friendship like that just so you could be my boyfriend, and have me look at you with desire and longing in my eyes, if only once—would you? Of course not. Well, if we started dating, it would only complicate this wonderful setup I've got going here.

(Good, kind, caring) Sex doesn't destroy a friendship.
It just makes it much more vunerable but it takes it to another higher level.
Not all can handle that transition, and thus prefer to stick in a realm that's just "safe".

Fear steals a lot of opportunities in our life.
Life is short, time is precious, use it wisely.

Originally Posted by Ledgem

But then again, that's all planning from a logical stand point. As the saying goes, "Man tries to plan, and God just laughs." Life is unpredictable and you can never know what's coming your way. Try to look ahead, but ultimately do what you think is right.

I'm ironically enrolled in that "Life Lesson" at present, it's incredibly frustrating to have that kinda control taken away from you, but we can only make the best of each day as much as we can

[Narona]

Originally Posted by whitepearl

Just as bad is when people get to the point the first time but keep talking and repeating themselves. My mom does this all the time

Well, parents care for their children and education, so it happens that they are repeating themselves xD

But i personally don't see this as a bad thing ^^ (in my case, of course)

Originally Posted by King Lycan

I just told her that
"That she was always on my mind" at like 2am in the morning i was feeling sappy

She replied
"Thats sweet but idk i don't want you to the get the wrong idea.. I just want to be friends"

IRL, or by IM?

Well, you seem to not have chosen the best time to confess xD... But, it doesn't mean that the result would have been different.

Oh ;__; Well, I can't talk for every girls, because each person is different, but imo (keep in mind it's just an opinion from a person who don't know you and this girl at all) she does seem to see you as a friend, and nothing more... For now, at least.

What do you plan to do from now? (if you already thought about it, of course)

[Jinto]

Not being honest in relationships (whatever sort of relationship that is) is troublesome sooner or later. Always giving and never taking in a relationship destroys the giving person on the long run. Such relationships are not worth it (except one likes the masochism that comes with it). Not sex destroys a friendship but one-sided love. Usually love comes before sex. However, this is all relative. I know there are people for whom sex and love can be mutually exclusive things (but they might have other problems then).

A final thought on that matter:

If you love what you cannot get and cannot love what you can get, you have lost no matter how hard you try.

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by Narona

IRL, or by IM?

Well, you seem to not have chosen the best time to confess xD... But, it doesn't mean that the result would have been different.

Oh ;__; Well, I can't talk for every girls, because each person is different, but imo (keep in mind it's just an opinion from a person who don't know you and this girl at all) she does seem to see you as a friend, and nothing more... For now, at least.

What do you plan to do from now? (if you already thought about it, of course)

It was over a text

I plan to move on

[Jazzrat]

never ask a girl over text, that's a very insincere way to do it.
take her out, go somewhere romantic, get that good feeling chemistry going before you pop the question.

Spoiler for what i did:

Recently took a girl out, she's someone i had interest in since a long time ago but always been
in the friendship zone.

We went out for some french wine n dine. Chit chatted over wine and we got comfy
on the couch. With the right chemistry going, i manage to steal a few kisses off her.

The confession came later but it really didnt matter at that point. It's important to create
the right atmosphere for the girl (dont need to be expensive, just romantic but subtle). You don't just pop a msg telling her how much u thought of her. That's just abrupt and will make the girl drift further away from you.

and i m far from being a casanova.

[King Lycan]

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

never ask a girl over text, that's a very insincere way to do it.
take her out, go somewhere romantic, get that good feeling chemistry going before you pop the question.

Spoiler for what i did:

Recently took a girl out, she's someone i had interest in since a long time ago but always been
in the friendship zone.

We went out for some french wine n dine. Chit chatted over wine and we got comfy
on the couch. With the right chemistry going, i manage to steal a few kisses off her.

The confession came later but it really didnt matter at that point. It's important to create
the right atmosphere for the girl (dont need to be expensive, just romantic but subtle). You don't just pop a msg telling her how much u thought of her. That's just abrupt and will make the girl drift further away from you.

and i m far from being a casanova.

No bullshit I really didn't know what i was thinking ..knew it was a dumb idea

[stubby42]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

There are a lot of variables to that, but let's start with one bit of reasoning: what if you meet "your one and only"? How much does true love and having a lifelong companion matter to you compared to where you live?

To me, I don't care where I am. I may prefer some climates over others, but I've never cared or had an idea of where I wanted to be - only what I wanted to do. Therefore, a relationship (a really solid one) trumps location. However, you do have to consider whether you might be miserable at a certain place. After all, if you're miserable and you're there because of your other half, then you'll likely become resentful.

But it doesn't have to be so black and white. If you've truly found that perfect relationship, there's a good chance that your mate will heavily consider moving with you, especially if it means a lot to you.

In your case specifically, the big question is whether you can really evaluate whether someone is truly right for you within the relatively short period of time that you'll be stuck in the UK. It's possible (especially if you've truly found "the one") but in most cases, that's probably not enough time.

If I were you, unless I found a girl that I liked who also was trying to get to Canada, I'd hold off on any serious relationships. Distance is a rotten thing to deal with when you're crazy about someone. Save yourself the trouble. Even if you linked with someone and decided that you'd return to the UK eventually, you're returning to Canada to finish your studies, right? And you'll be there for three years? So that's a forced separation right there, during which you'll be tormented and your relationship (which will only be a year old, if that) will be stressed, perhaps to the point of falling apart.

But then again, that's all planning from a logical stand point. As the saying goes, "Man tries to plan, and God just laughs." Life is unpredictable and you can never know what's coming your way. Try to look ahead, but ultimately do what you think is right..

food for thought, I dont know its just been a very long time since I've been in a relationship, the first time I went to Canada on an exchange program (with university) I wasnt really planning on staying and I decided I wasnt going to bother with relationships because I just wanted to have fun. As soon as I came back to the UK I wanted to be out there again a few times something came up (but I'm bad at reading body language and emotions) but it didnt matter because I'd managed to get an internship organised with a film company in the same city I was when I started.

That was great and I got to hang out with my friends but I was working un godly hours and it was my final year of university so I was juggling work and uni work, I got back to the UK and I got so far behind that I'm still trying to catch up.

For two years a relationship hasnt been an option even if I'd of been able to get into one.

The next time I go back to Canada, I'll either be doing a year long web design course or taking a job, I have to save up two years of full time work then I get fast tracked to immigration.

I wouldnt say I'm miserable here because I'm not my lifes pretty good (even if I cant find work right at the moment damn recession) but my life in Canada is alot better, I'm always doing something which usually involves going out making films, doing photography, longboarding or snowboarding with friends.

Eventually I'll be starting companies with my friends and I cant do that here. I'm happier in Canada.

Maybe I'll meet someone who wants to come out with me but honestly immigration is probably the hardest thing I've ever done, you experience highs but theres always lows and when theres a low its a really big low.

I dont want someone to come out with me because their doing it for me I want them to do it because they want to, I've read too many stories on expat messageboards where one member of the family really wants to immigrate but the other side didnt really want to and its broken their families.

I think part of my problem is I've gotten used to living my life by a plan and I feel like I have a deadline hanging over me but maybe something will happen and I should just go with it.

[gunshottrigun]

Phew I haven't gone on a date in 2 years probably haha. I'm not exactly sure why.

[Shinoto]

Originally Posted by King Lycan

I just told her that
"That she was always on my mind" at like 2am in the morning i was feeling sappy

She replied
"Thats sweet but idk i don't want you to the get the wrong idea.. I just want to be friends"

I'll say this, If it sounds like a confession from a crappy shoujo series. It's best not to say it.

Saying something like "Your always on my mind", falls into the more obsessive/desperate category which is an absolute turn off. Girl I worked with before did a confession similar to that with me. I just walked away.

In general its best to avoid confession

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by stubby42

I wouldnt say I'm miserable here because I'm not my lifes pretty good (even if I cant find work right at the moment damn recession) but my life in Canada is alot better, I'm always doing something which usually involves going out making films, doing photography, longboarding or snowboarding with friends.
...
Maybe I'll meet someone who wants to come out with me but honestly immigration is probably the hardest thing I've ever done, you experience highs but theres always lows and when theres a low its a really big low.

I dont want someone to come out with me because their doing it for me I want them to do it because they want to, I've read too many stories on expat messageboards where one member of the family really wants to immigrate but the other side didnt really want to and its broken their families.

I think part of my problem is I've gotten used to living my life by a plan and I feel like I have a deadline hanging over me but maybe something will happen and I should just go with it.

Heh, there's nothing wrong with living life like a plan. And if things have been going according to plan, you're lucky! Much of my earlier life was basically working out like a plan, but the past three or so years were very much a matter of bobbing and weaving with various events and bits of information. Hence my philosophy and recommendation of having a general framework in mind, but overall keeping your eyes open and being quick about grabbing opportunities that come your way.

The decision about the UK vs. Canada is up to you, and whether a woman would make you reconsider that is also up to you (and to the woman, and to both of your chemistry combinations). It's an interesting thought, but right now it may be premature to worry about it. However, if you do find someone and begin dating, you would probably want to be up-front about your plans. It may decrease your chances of getting farther into the relationship, but it'd also decrease the likelihood of a painful separation on your part and the part of the lady. Either way, I wouldn't completely hold off on a relationship because of it. Just perhaps, approach them more cautiously.

Originally Posted by Shinoto

I'll say this, If it sounds like a confession from a crappy shoujo series. It's best not to say it.

Saying something like "Your always on my mind", falls into the more obsessive/desperate category which is an absolute turn off. Girl I worked with before did a confession similar to that with me. I just walked away.

In general its best to avoid confession

Not always true! Hey, if you're the type of person who would love it if a person did a confession like that to you, then keep right on doing it. People who hate confessions like that (such as Shinoto) would turn you down for it, but would you really be highly compatible with a person like that? On the other hand, if you make a confession like that to someone and she really loves it, then there's a chance that you'll both be very compatible.

Whether you and the lady both like the same types of confessions isn't really a make-or-break thing about relationships, but it may serve as an indicator of sorts. However, I do agree with Jazzrat - in many ways presentation matters more than what you say. Digital text has to be one of the coldest ways of going about it, and probably won't lead to much success. In person, with good presentation, matters. Depending on how the other person feels about you and how much they care about atmosphere, the time and place may not matter too much.

[whitepearl]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Digital text has to be one of the coldest ways of going about it, and probably won't lead to much success. In person, with good presentation, matters. Depending on how the other person feels about you and how much they care about atmosphere, the time and place may not matter too much.

Plus in person, the significant other you confess to doesn't have the option of putting up an away message, closing the IM window, or deleting the e-mail

[Shinoto]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Not always true! Hey, if you're the type of person who would love it if a person did a confession like that to you, then keep right on doing it. People who hate confessions like that (such as Shinoto) would turn you down for it, but would you really be highly compatible with a person like that? On the other hand, if you make a confession like that to someone and she really loves it, then there's a chance that you'll both be very compatible.

Whether you and the lady both like the same types of confessions isn't really a make-or-break thing about relationships, but it may serve as an indicator of sorts. However, I do agree with Jazzrat - in many ways presentation matters more than what you say. Digital text has to be one of the coldest ways of going about it, and probably won't lead to much success. In person, with good presentation, matters. Depending on how the other person feels about you and how much they care about atmosphere, the time and place may not matter too much.

I'm not referring to the...Well she's already on top of me and about to do the dirty dirty. Which then "Confessing" is probably just going get the situation more steamy or just be silly little nothings. Basically...after they are already diggin you. Which I barely even consider a confession and more of "Veni Vidi Vici" moment. The roots are already there.

I'm referring to the first one, The desperate sounding one. The "I had a crush on you for oh so long, so please date me". Normally back in 3rd or 4th grade type thing, when the girls would go over to you. Confess there deep hidden emotions to you. Where the only proper response was screaming like how Mel Gibson did in Braveheart. It's like that. Except not nearly as awesome of a scream as Mel Gibson could do.

As you said, You're absolutely right with presentation. But I just put a bit more focus on when you do it since it completely changes based on the when.