2009-09-10, 22:40 | Link #201 |
12th Supernova
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Foxy arc
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I don't know much about the Health care system, but from watching sicko, it seems like it sucks. Big time.
I mean, in the movie, they show themselves going to britain where you don't pay the hospitals. The hospitals pay you, if you had to pay for transportation there. They even went into cuba, to get $0.05 inhalers. And what confuses me, is that there's commercials on tv that say stuff like "Free health care will create tons of debt and make taxes spike upwards". If that's so, how come France and Britain are not in a depression r anything? Is it gonna be more dangerous for us than britain or France? And someone correct me if i'm wrong, because I'm getting very confused right about now. >.< |
2009-09-10, 22:42 | Link #202 | |
On a sabbatical
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 43
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2009-09-11, 07:21 | Link #203 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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Also, the UK/France queues are prioritized by urgency (as are Canada and the US). Its called triage and all healthcare systems do it.
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2009-09-11, 09:16 | Link #204 | |
On a sabbatical
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 43
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That's why I advocate a tiered say system based on seniority and department, rather than pay-per-job. When I was in the US, I used the services of that hospital (almost solely!) because service standards were way better. I think it was in the New York Times some time ago.
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2009-09-11, 14:03 | Link #205 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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2009-09-11, 17:35 | Link #208 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2. they pay taxes like everyone else Answer: YES
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2009-09-11, 18:11 | Link #210 | |
blinded by blood
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And for many of them working for unscrupulous businesses, under the table and below minimum wage, the "free" healthcare is actually free, since they don't pay income taxes. Another reason why income tax should go away forever, and the government should operate on consumption taxes only. ^^;
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2009-09-11, 18:40 | Link #212 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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believe me... you can overstay in the US with expired H-1Bs without fear of getting caught by ICE. You just gotta know the right city/state/county to stay in, connections, and obviously you can't use the airport. The only way out of this limbo is to marry an american citizen, you gotta be sincere to your new husband/wife or ICE will get you
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2009-09-11, 18:45 | Link #213 |
blinded by blood
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I have no problem with open borders at all. Closed borders are bad for everyone. Isolationist policies never ended well for any nation.
The problem I have is that I'm forced to pay taxes to provide services to people who aren't paying into the system. If you're not paying into the system, you shouldn't get the services the taxes pay for. Period. I don't care what color or nationality you are. Hopefully any changes to our healthcare system will do just that--prevent abuse of the system.
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2009-09-11, 18:53 | Link #214 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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(this was a big news within immigrant community in so-cal 2 years ago) http://vdare.com/sanchez/070324_fraud.htm Those waiting for green cards are sill in limbo (great... gotta pay to extend H1B visa again) If ya want smooooth transition from H1B -> green card -> and finally Citizenship (for thje 1st two) you must pay top dollar for immigration lawyer. |
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2009-09-11, 20:43 | Link #215 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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"You get what you pay for."
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2009-09-11, 21:29 | Link #216 | ||
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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There's no reason why it would be worse for us than Canada, Britain, France, or any other country that has it. I would not be surprised if, immediately following the switch, we found that we had to pay more than they were, as people with conditions who were initially holding off on seeing their doctor due to the costs made use of healthcare services. However, the end result would be positive compared to what we have now. Preventive medicine will always be cheaper (and kinder to the outcome of the patient) than would waiting until the patient crashes due to a full-blown illness, and is faced with either being treated immediately or dying/losing some major functionality. Quote:
I also sat in on a panel given by two specialists to a group of medical students. They stated that part of the problem that feeds into this perception that America is better in terms of timing has to do with people playing doctor themselves. If the medical diagnosis is that certain things (such as an MRI) are not necessary, then you either won't get it or you'll be put on the long waiting line in a place like Canada. Yet many people feel that they need practically every test run (and without a moment's delay), and under the American system, those who can afford it can do that. It doesn't help that many doctors admit to practicing "defensive medicine" (that is, ordering tests that probably aren't necessary, in order to stave off a potential malpractice lawsuit). That drives up the cost of care for the patient, and also gets the patient used to the idea that they really need these millions of tests to be performed. Really, if people tried to use hospital services themselves they might feel differently. I know that I did, after I went to a specialist to examine a strange lump that had formed on my body. I spent approximately 30 minutes with the doctor on one day, 15 minutes at the follow-up appointment; I underwent two tests from the radiology department and a number of others from the toxicology department. For what probably amounted to an hour or two of time, I was hit with about four bills (because each department charges separately) that totaled around $200 (maybe more, maybe less - I don't recall the exact number). That was with my insurance company covering around 70% or so of the costs, even. $200 - maybe not a lot to some of you reading this, but that's a damn expensive proposition just for checking something out. (For those who are wondering, the lump disappeared before I got my results back, and all results basically showed nothing special.) If it had been cancer or something else of concern, it would have been $200 well spent - the treatment would have been much simpler (read: cheaper) and my likely outcome would have been much better. Yet given that experience and those costs, how likely would I be to get another lump checked out versus just sitting on it and waiting to see if it goes away by itself? I think the answer is obvious - I'd rather sit on it, because even with insurance, at this point in my life, that's very expensive. That's a failing of the system right there, because it costs the system less time and resources to treat things that are caught early. Yet by making early diagnoses so expensive, it encourages people to wait until they're really being affected by their disease, at which point the treatment will have to be much more intensive. That's really not optimal to anybody... well, except for the health insurance companies, who can determine at the last minute that there's something about you that makes you ineligable for their services.
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2009-09-11, 23:02 | Link #217 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
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Interesting take by a rare SANE US columnist; David Brooks
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/op....html?emc=eta1 I am in ideological agreement with public plan or something close to it, the stickler is the deficit. Obama as much as i like him used iffy math as reported by the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...T2009091004411 |
2009-09-12, 01:58 | Link #218 |
On a sabbatical
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wellington, NZ
Age: 43
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I still think the best way out is government administered healthcare schemes. Britain and Singapore, France and Germany have done well with it. Let the private sector do the niche jobs like VIP treatment and Plastic surgery.
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2009-09-12, 13:09 | Link #219 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2009-09-12, 23:10 | Link #220 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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looks like some reps want to make changes... Rep. joe the heckler and Dean Heller of Nevada proposed an amendment that would require validation of citizenship. It was voted down in the House W&M Committee. Last edited by mg1942; 2009-09-12 at 23:22. |
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