Smoking

[Anh_Minh]

So they don't even smell like tobacco? Temptation to become an addict... rising.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

So they don't even smell like tobacco? Temptation to become an addict... rising.

nope. i mean even the "smoke" is just water vapour, the same thing that comes out of smoke machines they use in clubs and stuff.

So besides that, you can only smell whatever flavour you like.

Plus you can make your own "roll-up" so to say, or e-juicing, haven't tried it yet. but basically you can refill your own cartridge, since each one holds a liquid, you just fill it up with whatever strength nicotine you like.

But i can't be bothered, i mean the refill carts are bloody cheap already.

only reason im taking this up is that i have to cut down on my alcohol since i have to drive more....

[DonQuigleone]

I've never seen the point in smoking myself. No real benefit and it sucks your money and health away.

Here's what I don't understand: If smoking is so "cool", why don't they just make a cigarette that doesn't contain Nicotine? And after that make it nice and apple flavoured or something? You get a cool image without the addiction! They could just sell them as nonaddictive tasty cigarettes, and if you never tell anyone they don't contain nicotine, people might be able to transfer over to them, and sate their addiction through the placebo effect.

[XenophunK]

Originally Posted by donquigleone

I've never seen the point in smoking myself. No real benefit and it sucks your money and health away.

Here's what I don't understand: If smoking is so "cool", why don't they just make a cigarette that doesn't contain Nicotine? And after that make it nice and apple flavoured or something? You get a cool image without the addiction! They could just sell them as nonaddictive tasty cigarettes, and if you never tell anyone they don't contain nicotine, people might be able to transfer over to them, and sate their addiction through the placebo effect.

NOW FOR 9.99 AT YOUR NEAREST SUPERMARKET

now out of seriousness

i'd like that idea

[WanderingKnight]

Here's what I don't understand: If smoking is so "cool", why don't they just make a cigarette that doesn't contain Nicotine?

Because it wouldn't be addictive, and Big Tobacco's Big Business would be over.

What damages your lungs isn't nicotine, anyways.

[Onizuka-GTO]

yup. remove all the bad stuff from the cigarette and all you are left is the good addictive nicotine.

if you can do that, then people can smoke all they please and have a nice swing of beer to wash it down.

A nice recreational drug that can be enjoyable and safe in moderation.

Of course, the the big tobacco companies can easily remove the Tar and other harmful substance form the product with a simply chemical filter, (which incidentally they own the patent for it) they choose not to use as it means a cut in their profit way back inthe 80's. well it's come back and bite them in the arse, so now they have given up on the 1st world countries and focused on the developing ones without the public smoking ban and the crippling government taxes.

Which is good. Since with new technology, we get a cleaner way to get our nicotine fixes.

either that or I drink more.

[Ledgem]

It'd be good to remove the cancer risks and the offensive odor, but the addictive aspect is still dangerous and in my opinion it is also unethical. Withdrawal isn't a pain-free process. You don't need it.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

It'd be good to remove the cancer risks and the offensive odor, but the addictive aspect is still dangerous and in my opinion it is also unethical. Withdrawal isn't a pain-free process. You don't need it.

True. all addiction is dangerous.

Alcohol.

Sex.

Money.

Music.

Pain killers.

Internet.

Sugar.

Games.

etc etc.


All the addiction above, some one has died from it.

Yet not one person has died from nicotine overdose......yet.

The point being, adults have a free choice and yes we must take all reasonable precaution to make them safe.

Banning or taking it away should be a personal choice if it is deemed all reasonable precaution has been taken.

But humans will be humans and there will always be someone who will take something to extreme and abuse it, regardless if we need it or not.

tabacco cigarettes should be banned, for all the health related risks.

But for the other alternative, it should be allowed and left to personal choice.

[Anh_Minh]

Plenty of people have died of cigarette induced cancer. A lot more than of video game induced starvation, for example.

[WanderingKnight]

Plenty of people have died of cigarette induced cancer.

Nicotine doesn't cause lung cancer.

Of course, nicotine isn't the only thing you're smoking when you lit a cigarette.

[Anh_Minh]

I know. But if we're going to compare the lethality of cigarettes to that of other addictions, I think we should be a bit more... comprehensive.

[WanderingKnight]

I think he was talking about using those detoxifying cigarette thingies... I don't think he was suggesting that smoking regular cigarettes doesn't kill you.

Of course, I don't think you could survive if you patch yourself up with nicotine from head to foot (a la Thank You For Smoking), but I believe nicotine addiction can't take you as far as that. If you could provide some way of delivering a toxin-ridden tobacco cigarette, would you find it a dangerous addiction such as, say, alcohol?

[Anh_Minh]

Oh, right. Sorry.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

True. all addiction is dangerous.

Alcohol.

Sex.

Money.

Music.

Pain killers.

Internet.

Sugar.

Games.

etc etc.

Many of the "addictions" listed above are not addictions that can be compared with nicotine. Nicotine in a biological addiction and it is proven to be a highly addictive substance. You can't compare this to something like music or video games - these can form into psychological addictions, but you can't induce the addiction by exposure in the same manner that nicotine addiction can. People like to get technical and defend nicotine by bringing up other potentially addictive substances, but I find it to be a bit of a garbage tactic which concedes that nicotine is addictive and they can't get around it. Just accept that nicotine is incredibly addictive to a very, very wide range of individuals, whereas something like sugar will affect a much smaller proportion of people. Don't compare the two.

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

Yet not one person has died from nicotine overdose......yet.

Life and death isn't the point. Look, if people were allowed to sell themselves into slavery, would you be OK with that? I wouldn't, on the grounds that I think that nobody should be able to claim ownership over another person. I guess this sort of goes back to that elementary school question of "if God is all-powerful, can God create a rock so heavy that not even God can lift it?" Specifically, should you have the freedom to give up your freedoms? It's an ethical question (whereas the God question is more of a philosophical one), and my opinion is that you shouldn't be able to give away your freedoms.

Nicotine isn't selling yourself into slavery, but I see it loosely along the same lines. You're addicting yourself. You won't be able to stop buying and using that product unless you're prepared to endure a lot of discomfort and strain on your body. It just seems like an unwise decision. What if you suddenly can't afford it, or if your supply is suddenly cut off? You're suddenly a ticking time bomb, and your withdrawal symptoms could come at a very inopportune time. Why burden yourself with that additional risk? Why burden yourself with the addiction at all?

[WanderingKnight]

Look, if people were allowed to sell themselves into slavery

I thought they already could? Over here we call it employment

(Sorry, sorry, Marx mode kicked in, I promise it won't happen again )

[HayashiTakara]

It's been a long time since I was a kid... but, is the whole smoking thing still perceived as "cool" among the little ones? I can't imagine it to be, since theres so many anti-smoking movements in the past few years.

[Onizuka-GTO]

As the previous commenter mentioned, i was not advocating cigarette smoking, since it's scientifically and medically proven to be a health hazard (however the said can be said about excessive alcohol and internet )

I was talking about Tar-free smoking.

The stuff with out the cancer inducing stuff.

But still has the calming, relaxing and recreational nicotine chemical, similar to alcohol. but without the risk of alcohol blood poisoning danger. (yet)

Originally Posted by Ledgem

Nicotine isn't selling yourself into slavery, but I see it loosely along the same lines. You're addicting yourself. You won't be able to stop buying and using that product unless you're prepared to endure a lot of discomfort and strain on your body. It just seems like an unwise decision. What if you suddenly can't afford it, or if your supply is suddenly cut off? You're suddenly a ticking time bomb, and your withdrawal symptoms could come at a very inopportune time. Why burden yourself with that additional risk? Why burden yourself with the addiction at all?

Ledgem, you have a very good question, i mean Why burden yourself with the addiction at all?

That comrade, is human nature. I do not know why some people fall hopelessly into alcoholism, some say it's genetics, other say it's psychological, either way, I could never imagine myself to drink everyday. I can not image the hangover when you cannot fuel the addiction any more.

*shudder*

However many people continue to drink and do not fall into alcoholism.

The simple truth is that the majority of people learn how to moderate and to a certain extent are simply immune to the addictive nature of the stuff.

But I mean why burden yourself to it? Because we choose to.

The same could be said about nicotine.

You don't have to do it, but you have a choice.

and some people enjoy it, but do not get addicted. it is a simple thing.

Besides i still get questioned as to why i watch anime, i mean i get the same underlying theme.

"Why burden yourself with the addiction at all?"



Well ,that's because i'm addicted. Until they can scientifically prove that watching too much anime, or, taking too much nicotine would eventually give me a life threatening disease or actively deteriorate my health.

I think I'm entitlement to choose my Evil addiction.

[Ledgem]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

However many people continue to drink and do not fall into alcoholism.

The simple truth is that the majority of people learn how to moderate and to a certain extent are simply immune to the addictive nature of the stuff.

But I mean why burden yourself to it? Because we choose to.

The same could be said about nicotine.

You don't have to do it, but you have a choice.

and some people enjoy it, but do not get addicted. it is a simple thing.

Besides i still get questioned as to why i watch anime, i mean i get the same underlying theme.

"Why burden yourself with the addiction at all?"



Well ,that's because i'm addicted. Until they can scientifically prove that watching too much anime, or, taking too much nicotine would eventually give me a life threatening disease or actively deteriorate my health.

I think I'm entitlement to choose my Evil addiction.

You're not taking the addiction seriously and you're still not making the distinction between "soft" addictions (as in you get depressed and feel frustrated/uncomfortable if you don't get it) and "hard" (as in your body will revolt against you if it doesn't get it and exhibit signs of sickness among others). Alcoholism falls between both types of addictions - some people do it because they're depressed and they'd rather black out than live with their pain, and the theory is that some people are genetically predispositioned to become addicted to it from a biological standpoint. People addicted to nicotine may fall into either of the two categories as well - I am not making the claim that every single person will become addicted from a biological standpoint.

However, alcohol addiction and nicotine addiction are on totally different levels. The amount of people who become addicted to nicotine are vastly greater in number than people who will become addicted to alcohol. It's in the biology of it - the chances that your body will be addicted to nicotine are much, much greater than the chances that you carry the body chemistry to be addicted to alcohol. Look, I'll provide you with scientific papers and any other proof you'd like that nicotine is a highly addictive substance that isn't like many other (legal) substances available, if you'll promise to read them. You're flaunting the addictive nature of it in such a manner that leads me to believe that you don't understand how serious an addiction can be.

[Onizuka-GTO]

oh, i certainly understand how serious an addiction can be,

But if a person who is aware of his or her own body limit and can master the art of moderation, then the dangers of a nicotine addiction is already 2/3 the battle conquered.


But in the worse i can see you can get from a nicotine addiction if you do not have this self control,
(which i must add, means this person has seriously misunderstood their own body and underestimate their own mental control to moderate themselves, which in conclusion, means they have not taken any serious attempt to understand themselves and their limits)

The worse they would suffer from a nicotine only addiction is financial difficulty, that i believe any hardcore anime otaku *guilty cough*, cosplayer, gamer, WoW/EVE player, custom PC builder *guilty cough*, or Gambling addict would be familiar with.

[WanderingKnight]

What I ask on nicotine addiction has less to do with the degree of the addiction than with the effects of it. How much damage can nicotine cause to your body? Can it seriously do more damage than alcohol?

If you ask me, alcohol is worse than nicotine on multiple levels, because it not only has a stronger physical effect, but also affects your behavior and increases your tendency to get violent (as opposed to, say, pot which also affects your behavior but hardly makes you any more violent).