Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[FlareKnight]

Gotta love having subs to help understand things now.

Gotta say that Lutecia doesn't exactly hold back when things she wants are around. Garyuu on his own does some damage to Caro, then Erio when he rushed in and attacked. Plus the blast knocking the two into the wall was pretty rough.

Guess when you have massive numbers illusions can even add more trouble. Having to waste time attacking the fakes since you know some of the attackers are real.

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Gotta love having subs to help understand things now.

Gotta say that Lutecia doesn't exactly hold back when things she wants are around. Garyuu on his own does some damage to Caro, then Erio when he rushed in and attacked. Plus the blast knocking the two into the wall was pretty rough.

Guess when you have massive numbers illusions can even add more trouble. Having to waste time attacking the fakes since you know some of the attackers are real.

being thrown into the wall like that, its more than a pretty rough.... its like take no prisoners rough

little disappointed that there was no Ginga set up scene

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Bonta Kun

being thrown into the wall like that, its more than a pretty rough.... its like take no prisoners rough

There are... Ups and downs...

Originally Posted by Bonta Kun

little disappointed that there was no Ginga set up scene

[krisslanza]

I'm sure the Ginga set up scene will be in a few more episodes...
In comparison to MSLN and A's, they don't re-show the set up scenes very often (i.e. In MSLN they showed it practically every time minus a few times)

WAIT!? Ep11 subs!? Geez, I didn't see any on Veoh...

[FlareKnight]

Heck not just Ginga but nothing on Hayate either . Guess with the adding of characters they don't want to waste half an episode with setup scenes.

Yeah I guess getting slammed into a wall is more than a little rough. Guess those are the breaks for the loli sensor Erio has.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Heck not just Ginga but nothing on Hayate either . Guess with the adding of characters they don't want to waste half an episode with setup scenes.

I'm not that bothered with the lack of Set up scenes, but going with that theory, they should have cut out the Forwards' scene to save more time

We've already seen them anyway.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Yeah I guess getting slammed into a wall is more than a little rough. Guess those are the breaks for the loli sensor Erio has.

It left a crater in the wall

Surprisingly (or unsurprisingly) he didn't lose Consciousness.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I'm not that bothered with the lack of Set up scenes, but going with that theory, they should have cut out the Forwards' scene to save more time

We've already seen them anyway.

Probably why the forwards setup scenes were shortened to those quick versions. Though I'm not sure if we'll see many more set up scenes from that group. At least free up some time for those like Ginga and Hayate. (Heck even Chrono feels the same way)

It left a crater in the wall

Surprisingly (or unsurprisingly) he didn't lose Consciousness.

So what your saying is that it was a pretty hard impact .

At least its impressive he managed to stay concious. Considering Caro is knocked out and she didn't hit the wall directly.

[thundrakkon]

Chrono mentions that it will be difficult to get a renewal. I am assuming a renewal for Hayate removing her limiter, to a degree?

Although this concept of being difficult to get a renewal baffles me. I mean, the mages are granted permission to remove their limiter because the situation requires it.

Let's throw in a hypothetical situation. If they don't allow the renewal, and Hayate is not allowed to release her limiter in the future when she needs it, two results could occur: 1) she dies because she was not strong enough to protect herself, or 2) a lot of other people die (a city perhaps?) because she did not have enough power to protect them.

Hence, the whole idea of it being difficult to get a renewal kind of sounds ridiculous.

[krisslanza]

Actually the forwards set-up scenes were shortened for a more obvious reason.
They don't have to draw them in their new outfits if they just cut out the start of the set-up.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Chrono mentions that it will be difficult to get a renewal. I am assuming a renewal for Hayate removing her limiter, to a degree?

Although this concept of being difficult to get a renewal baffles me. I mean, the mages are granted permission to remove their limiter because the situation requires it.

Let's throw in a hypothetical situation. If they don't allow the renewal, and Hayate is not allowed to release her limiter in the future when she needs it, two results could occur: 1) she dies because she was not strong enough to protect herself, or 2) a lot of other people die (a city perhaps?) because she did not have enough power to protect them.

Hence, the whole idea of it being difficult to get a renewal kind of sounds ridiculous.

You have to consider why they would allow or disallow her to remove her limiter, you're making it sound as if they'll disallow it on purpose all the time even if the situation calls for it.

If the situation is already gone too far south, I don't see why they won't allow her. But it's understandable that certain scenarios doesn't call for a tactical Nuclear strike.

Or certain times a full release is not recommended, like if the fight is in the middle of a city.

Take this situation for example, Chrono has to go through quite a bit of trouble explaining why Hayate needs to personally deal with the drones instead of letting her captains deal with it.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

this is pretty surprising to find out that Vivio came out of that life pod, but its even more surprising to find out that it couldn't have been the doctor's doing.
So I'm thinking someone else in TSAB must know about Project F also.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You have to consider why they would allow or disallow her to remove her limiter, you're making it sound as if they'll disallow it on purpose all the time even if the situation calls for it.

It seems that way, from the way Chrono was stressing over getting a renewal.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

If the situation is already gone too far south, I don't see why they won't allow her. But it's understandable that certain scenarios doesn't call for a tactical Nuclear strike.

I am sure that if she requires permission to take off her limiter, Chrono will have to make the decision on what he believes is best. If he does not get the renewal, it pretty much means he doesn't even have the authority to allow her to remove her limiter, from my understanding of the scenario. Hence, if the situation has gone to far south, without a renewal, she's pretty much screwed.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Or certain times a full release is not recommended, like if the fight is in the middle of a city.

Definitely agree with this. However, it is Chrono's decision on when the limiter is released. I am sure, like he just did, that he would not release it over a city. If he doesn't have a renewal, his decisions would not matter in this scenario.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Take this situation for example, Chrono has to go through quite a bit of trouble explaining why Hayate needs to personally deal with the drones instead of letting her captains deal with it.

It was either let Hayate release her limiter or let one of her captains release the limiter. Otherwise, let the drones go cause damage in the city and involve innocent civilians. There really isn't much to explain.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

It seems that way, from the way Chrono was stressing over getting a renewal.

Perception.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

I am sure that if she requires permission to take off her limiter, Chrono will have to make the decision on what he believes is best. If he does not get the renewal, it pretty much means he doesn't even have the authority to allow her to remove her limiter, from my understanding of the scenario. Hence, if the situation has gone to far south, without a renewal, she's pretty much screwed.

There's always a reson to do things, you're giving a very bias scenario that the odds are clearly not in the favor of the authority.

For what reason would you believe that the higher up would disapprove of a limiter release when the situation turns obviously critical?

And remember that Hayate is the commanding officer, it's not often that she'll be fighting.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Definitely agree with this. However, it is Chrono's decision on when the limiter is released. I am sure, like he just did, that he would not release it over a city. If he doesn't have a renewal, his decisions would not matter in this scenario.

Again, for what reasons do you see them not giving her a release if it's code red?

The problem that Chrono face is to convince them that the situation calls for it, sometimes certain threat levels are viewed diffierently.

And I said sometimes, that means other times it's painfully obvious.

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

It was either let Hayate release her limiter or let one of her captains release the limiter. Otherwise, let the drones go cause damage in the city and involve innocent civilians. There really isn't much to explain.

Yes there is. You said it yourself, Hayate could choose to release her Captains' limit BUT SHE DIDN'T. Why? Why couldn't her captains handle it?

[FlareKnight]

Well I think the point of getting renewed permission is to keep Chrono or Carim from releasing the limiter even if they want to. May be a time when they've used it up and are still working on getting that permission renewed. Technically they wouldn't be allowed to release the limiter even if it was a dire situation. Though of course I suppose Chrono could just release it anyway and deal with the problems he'd be faced on that decision later on.

Well I don't think the choice to release Hayate instead of the Captains will be too big a deal. After all if she hadn't they would probably have not made it in time to save the Shamal and Vivio. Or you could go with a simple one. (The fans deserved to see Hayate blasting some enemies , though maybe that might not go well with the higher ups).

Clearly those drones especially with the illusion were being used as a distraction to keep the Captains away from where they really needed to be. Even releasing Nanoha and Fate it would've taken some time to deal with that shear number and that might've been too late. No doubt Nanoha and Fate could've handled it, but nuclear bombarding from Hayate would settle things quicker and put the necessary force out there to protect the city from the enemies already there.

[Chaos2Frozen]

@FlareKnight

There's actually another reason for Hayate wanting to do it herself. From where she's at, she could take out ll the Drones without them getting close enough to her so the the doctor could collect her data.

Unlike Nanoha or Fate who has to be within viewing range, Hayate could nuke them where she stands.

The thing is that she would still have to explain and get the higher ups to understand.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

@FlareKnight

There's actually another reason for Hayate wanting to do it herself. From where she's at, she could take out ll the Drones without them getting close enough to her so the the doctor could collect her data.

Unlike Nanoha or Fate who has to be within viewing range, Hayate could nuke them where she stands.

The thing is that she would still have to explain and get the higher ups to understand.

That actually makes a lot of sense hadn't considered that. Blasting in one strike anyways wouldn't give them much time to record even the demise of their fellow drones. Guess she's really working ahead and making sure to try and keep as much of Fate and Nanoha's abilities under wraps until the time comes.

Yeah higher ups can be a pain to get this concept through. Even Chrono wasn't exactly excited at the prospect of working that out so he could get his approval renewed. Last thing they need is to be out of approvals in a serious conflict and be rushing through a command system to get it.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

That actually makes a lot of sense hadn't considered that. Blasting in one strike anyways wouldn't give them much time to record even the demise of their fellow drones. Guess she's really working ahead and making sure to try and keep as much of Fate and Nanoha's abilities under wraps until the time comes.

That and the two of them could handle protecting Storm Raider better than she could.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Yeah higher ups can be a pain to get this concept through. Even Chrono wasn't exactly excited at the prospect of working that out so he could get his approval renewed. Last thing they need is to be out of approvals in a serious conflict and be rushing through a command system to get it.

To be more specific, he needs to get permission from Ground center... And we all know what kind of people Ground Center's run by.

[Trax]

The limiter / renewal system sounds pretty messed up to me. Although it does make sense they want to keep the level of magic in check to prevent unnecessary collateral damage, I don't see why there has to be a renewal for a limit release. As long as the situation warrants it, they should get permission each and every time, not depending on a renewal.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Trax

The limiter / renewal system sounds pretty messed up to me. Although it does make sense they want to keep the level of magic in check to prevent unnecessary collateral damage, I don't see why there has to be a renewal for a limit release. As long as the situation warrants it, they should get permission each and every time, not depending on a renewal.

The thing is, who decides if the situations warrants for it?

Yes, sometimes the battle is obviously going very bad for them and that they need that extra help, but most of the time different people have diffierent views of the threat level.

Take this situation for example, it wasn't a code red 'do or die' sceanario, but yet Chrono released a S ranked mage with tactical nuclear capabilities.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah a complex thing I guess in terms of releasing limiters. Everyone has their own view of what would warrant that kind of release. Hopefully there will be some level headed people that will accept Chrono's decision to go with that. Wouldn't want to just be stuck on Carim's release since things could get problematic.

Only thing I wonder about is if it's possible to release the limiter even if you haven't gotten renewal. Of course doing that if possible would get the person in trouble, but if it was a dire situation Chrono/Carim might decide it was worth the trouble.