2010-09-20, 18:46 | Link #1401 | |
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2010-09-20, 19:17 | Link #1402 | |
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Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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There are only two persons that use "boku" to refer to themselves: George and Kanon. So there are high chances that it was Kanon, especially if shkanontrice is true. Even if it isn't, there are enough connections between shannontrice and kanon to think that Kanon could take the role.
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2010-09-20, 19:45 | Link #1403 | |||
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It's not like it's impossible via Devil's Proof or them to be candles, but I see no consistent reason for them to be such. Quote:
It's also important that the person on the phone seemed to know certain things about Natsuhi that he could use to his advantage. Shannon and Kanon are the most likely people to know such things. George would of course be possible due to his contact to Shannon, but it seems far less likely given his character description. He appears much too selfinvolved to actually pay so much attentation to Natsuhi and it was nowhere hinted during the first 4 arcs that he had special knowledge about anybody outside his direct family. EDIT: Quote:
It becomes even harder if we consider Episode 3 and 4, because why would the servants agree to go along with such a game? We basically have to major parties on the island, those who know about Kinzo's status and those who don't...why would they suddenly work together in faking their death with elaborate make up? If it was just the parents who guess about Kinzo's status, it could be a plot to scare the other party. If it were those who know about Kinzo, it could be a way to scare off the others. But the two parties seem to mix too often for it to be a plot to reach some secondary goal. <- secondary in terms of being not the primary goal within the murder mystery.
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Last edited by chounokoe; 2010-09-20 at 19:55. Reason: forgot to go one page back >_> |
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2010-09-20, 19:49 | Link #1404 |
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Yeah, hence "stupid theory". But you do address something else that's important - how does the culprit know which stakes are gonna get pulled out? That applies regardless of how he's preparing them (since at least one of them (ep1 5th twilight) is definitely fake).
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2010-09-20, 19:58 | Link #1405 | |
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2010-09-20, 20:05 | Link #1406 |
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No, I mean Kanon in the boiler room. Red text basically confirmed he faked his death, but he was seen with a stake sticking out of his chest.
You actually can't just say that the Stake of Satan is fake for this one, since it's pulled out of Natsuhi in ep3. |
2010-09-20, 21:14 | Link #1407 | |
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2010-09-20, 21:36 | Link #1408 | |
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Location: Floor eh duh?
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2010-09-20, 23:16 | Link #1409 | |
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Now, something we can tell is that all these phone-calls led Natsuhi to behave in a very suspicious fashion, and to become the prime suspect. Why would Yasu do that? Not to mention that the Epitaph was already solved, and by no one else but Battler. Isn't this extremely weird? Oh, and let's not forget Hideyoshi's "death" in the same room this person had Natsuhi hide in. There's also the fact that Shannon was purposely marked as suspicious after the whole "summer" card thing. I seriously don't think Yasu was the one making these phone-calls.
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2010-09-20, 23:34 | Link #1410 |
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He actually wasn't seen with it sticking out of his chest. The fantasy scene showed him pulling it out, and then Battler found it lying on the floor nearby. The same stunt was pulled with Hideyoshi in EP5, where someone had already supposedly pulled the stake out of the corpse before Erika arrived on the scene.
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2010-09-21, 01:43 | Link #1411 | |
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...Well, unless they completely ignore the red that they stated in the same damn Episode. But, back to the point I'm trying to make- Those phone calls really don't make sense, because with Yasu, hell, even Battler, there were really no 'hints' that they hated Natsuhi...at all (Battler even tried to defend her). Jessica had more reason to hate Natsuhi, and she's, well, dead. Same with Kanon, actually... We can, after all, say that the 19th person isn't the culprit, and just a person taking advantage of an unexpected situation. However, the 19th person doesn't match up with anything. EP6 Natsuhi had basically no idea what Chick-Beato was even talking about when confronted about it, and if you consider EP1 Natsuhi... Well, she had more reason to throw Eva off the cliff than the baby itself. I don't know, but the story itself, to me, speaks of a Natsuhi that just had all her thoughts rationalized, but didn't stick to her own character...if that makes sense. That, and if you follow Beato's claim that she killed that baby, and that she'll accept 'revenge' from that person, and you get...Beato killing herself, and willing to accept her own self-destruction (...Foreshadowing?)
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2010-09-21, 04:58 | Link #1412 | |
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2010-09-21, 08:05 | Link #1413 | |
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However there is absolutely no hint about someone hating Natsuhi or about a reason for someone to hate Natsuhi except for Eva, Yasu and Kanon (supposing he's not Yasu). Eva however is excluded because she wouldn't kill her husband and her son just to have an excuse to beat Natsuhi up. And with Kanon we have a problem because if he's not Yasu, then he's a servant and he can't be the culprit by virtue of the dine rules. I think it's more probable that this whole prank wasn't done for vengeance, but for another objective. Alternately, this can be explained simply by the fact that in the metaworld each personality is considered an individual. So Virgilia saying that "Beatrice" didn't act to get her vengeance, only refers to "Beatrice". And Beatrice doesn't consider herself to be the same person as Shannon. It could be that in Lambda's game Yasu was taken over by a "black witch" in a similar fashion of what happened to Maria in EP4. BTW, yet again I can't help but to notice how the man from 19 years before seems to be working side by side with Erika.
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2010-09-21, 08:20 | Link #1414 |
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At what point do we have any evidence whatsoever that the "man from 19 years ago" is the culprit? He claims to be holding Krauss, and we have some red that Krauss was killed shortly thereafter, but that doesn't necessarily follow that the "man" killed him. If there were a different objective at work here (for instance, intimidating Natsuhi into revealing Kinzo is dead), there'd be no problem with anyone who is able to do it doing it, as long as they're somehow tied to a group which has reason to scare Natsuhi.
Alternately, suppose Shkanon is not true (or is some Double Shkanon variant). Kanon has been known to fight "Beatrice." If Kanon knows Shannon was trusted by Natsuhi, and wanted to discredit Shannontrice in Natsuhi's eyes, what better way than to send her a threatening phone call with information only Shannon should know? This doesn't seem to have worked (at least, Natsuhi's internal narration doesn't act suspicious about Shannon), but it's not unreasonable to think it could have. The other possibility is it really was Battler calling. He's not the culprit, we know that, but that doesn't mean he can't be in on some other scheme.
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2010-09-21, 16:36 | Link #1415 | |
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Now, George and Jessica got killed at some point, which makes me think Shannon and Kanon couldn't possibly be involved in this. Although, even now, I find it terribly funny they showed no reaction, at all, after they got "killed". In fact, Shannon was even playing around with Gohda in the kitchen. As for Yasu, this whole thing doesn't seem like her work at all, if you ask me. The situation, the reason and the Modus Operandi doesn't match with what we've learnt about her so far. In addition, I'm sure the whole blackmail done on Natsuhi wasn't done with the desire for vengeance, but to use her as a scapegoat whilst carrying out all these murders. Of course, this would pose the question, how did anyone (outside Yasu and her circle, of course) find out about the incident 19 years ago. I find it highly unlikely that this person (or people) just came up with some random story which, by coincidence, matched with something that had actually happened. Well, Battler's behaviour seemed terribly suspicious in EP5, if you ask me. First, he saw the corpses of people who were not dead. Then, (assuming ShKanon is true) he sees people who shouldn't be there - add Kinzo to this later on. Finally, he seemed to have taken part in some ploy which involved a letter and a golden ring. All these things are terribly suspicious if you ask me. So, either the scenes which are not seen by the Detective can indeed be filled completely with lies some times, or there's more about Battler than we seem to think.
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2010-09-21, 16:46 | Link #1416 |
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Given that this was the point at which Piece-Battler was freed from detective obligations, it should be of interest to us to ask what Battler would do when not placed under literary constraints.
Or at least, what the ep5 author thinks Battler would do.
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2010-09-21, 18:29 | Link #1418 |
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But isn't it almost certain that the first twilight victims weren't actually dead when they were discovered? So you can't exclude that this was done with Yasu's complicity. And then again we need to accept the possibility that Yasu went in some kind of depressed mode and she doesn't care about everyone's lives anymore, since, sadly, there is huge evidence. This of course includes the persons she's supposed to love.
Even then I think that "Beatrice" never went inside the cousins' room since it is hinted that the magic circles are different than usual. BTW, I'd be tempted to say: "see? It isn't Maria the one who usually draws the magic circles! Because if it was her, then she would have made even these ones and they'd look as usual!" If it wasn't for the fact that we now know that it's in fact Maria the occult expert, so why would Maria draw magic circles worse than Beatrice? Then again Beatrice is better at drawing, so that might be why....
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2010-09-21, 19:06 | Link #1419 | |
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So, no matter how depressed or dead inside Yasu may be, his/her behaviour and actions regarding the cousins, especially Battler and Maria has been rather consistent. Yet, in EP5, when the Epitaph was solved - and by Battler to boot - the cousins (but Battler) got killed first. Along with this we know that in EP3 and EP4 the Epitaph the way the murders seem to be carried out is rather odd; for example, during EP3, even though the Epitaph was solved the murders kept on happening. In addition to this, during the 2nd Twilight no stakes were used (but, all the same, Rosa and Maria have never been staked; so, that may hint at something), and then some stakes were used in the wrong places. In EP4 some stakes were used, but I think the only person who got staked properly was Kyrie. Then we also have the issues during EP5 which I've already addressed. Isn't it weird that the 2 episodes we know were written by Yasu show some consistency regarding the murders, whereas the others do not? I'd also like to point out that Yasu's episodes were written before the incident took place. So, although (s)he had some idea of what would happen, in the end, (s)he had no way to predict the exact outcome of this game, and things could have gone out of control. This is an issue EP3 and the rest do not have, since they were written after the incident took place, and thus the future authors have info, like Eva surviving for example, which Yasu clearly had no idea about.
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2010-09-21, 19:27 | Link #1420 | |
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Another pro-Ange ep3/4 thought, though the world may think me mad: You ever notice how Battler suddenly becomes rather more adept at managing Beatrice's furniture and generally not being quite as vulnerable as he is in ep2? Sorta works with lionizing your beloved family. Of course this is in the meta-world, so we have to ask whether:
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