2011-10-26, 13:06 | Link #1201 |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
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I don't know whether this is a "good" show or not, but I for one am enjoying the heck out of it so far.
Complaints about there being some cliches lying around don't mean much to me, since pretty well all of anime is based on running new variations of old memes. Complaints about the main character powering up too fast are reasonable, but that applies to many shounen shows, so I'm not sure why this show is getting so much negativity. Probably because there was some hype and there were high hopes -- and also perhaps because this is noitaminA, and is supposed to be different. Inori's dress and character and the noitaminA audience don't seem like a good fit. I like this show for its stylishness, and I do find myself able to relate to the characters, little as we know of them so far. I'm not a fan of the plot or the situation, but I can go along and get something out of them. It's fantasy. And to me, the way the show is being directed gives it a verve and weight much greater than the script. Personally, the shows I am most enjoying so far are Chihayafuru, Boku to Kimi, Ben-Tou, Last Exile, Tomodachi ga Sukunai, Mirai Nikki, Mashiro-iro Symphony and Guilty Crown. As for which shows are "good," I'd say the first six I named are definitely good shows, up to now. But a lot of preference is personal preference, based on which kinds of characters and tropes one likes, and objectivity is hard to find. Hunter x Hunter is a good show, for sure, but my interest there is waning because the kiddy style and the situation aren't my thing.
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2011-10-26, 13:17 | Link #1202 | ||||||
Anime-Only Viewer
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: USA
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As for the Genomes, there could already be previous types made, but Void is the ultimate form. Although unlikely, there is still a possibility of many Genome users later on. It is still a long series, afterall. Quote:
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Btw, I really like the "spunk" that Tsugumi has. Her youthful actions are very fun so far, if not a bit for fan-service.
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2011-10-26, 13:36 | Link #1206 | |
Hiding Under Your Bed
Join Date: May 2008
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Edit: Saw your edit. Yup!
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2011-10-26, 13:41 | Link #1207 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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One cannot generalize one fan base to another, especially with so many factors at play. Even if there are a "significant" amount of posters in both threads, that significant amount might very well just have the same criticisms of both series. I have hardly criticized Boku wa Tomodachi for example, but I have not rated that series any higher than this one. I have barely said anything about Mirai Nikki, but one of my posts there was a criticism of it, and I do indeed put that series behind this one. Like people have said before. We had feelings about the first two episodes and we posted it. That's simply it. There's hardly anyone outright throwing this anime into the garbage or treating it like the worst thing of all time (Why would they be here still then?).
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2011-10-26, 13:42 | Link #1208 | |
Banned
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Speaking of which, if you want to talk pure unabashed hate and not giving a show a chance Gundam Age may hold the all time record by now. Like this show has nothing on what that show had to deal with before it even aired let alone right now where things are actually a little improved....a little. |
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2011-10-26, 15:22 | Link #1209 |
ショ ン (^^)
IT Support
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Well after episode 2 i can say i am definitely interested in where this will go. So far the set up has been nice we establish an evil organization as the baddie and we established an underground fighting force/Resistance taking the baddies on. However, what i have no heard in depth is what is the end goal for the resistance. Besides stopping the all the pain, suffering and basically occupational forces currently in Japan. Also, im interested to know if the premises for why Japan in occupied is still in effect. So far i have not seen anyone who is in fact infected by this pathogen.
Shu is the typical reluctant hero who has stumbled into a war that he knows nothing about. He pure of heart but unsure of himself and if he actually has the abilities to help so many "what can someone like me do" attitude. Its not that hes apathetic to people he just sees himself as weak. Funny thing is he kind of wish for something like this maybe not in the current form but his wish for granted. Putting your life on the line for others is one of the most honorable undertakings a person can do in their life. However at the end of episode he was turned down the offer to join. So whats the best way to persuade a teenage boy to join your cause. Put a hot ass girl in his high school class lol. Im hoping this series takes more of serious tone and does spend majority of it in the high school aspect. I would like Shu grow as a man character development and story progression will be the most important things to me in this series as the animation has already proved to be top notch.
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2011-10-26, 15:35 | Link #1210 | |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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1. The main characters power. I simply do not find the notion of people turning into or becoming hammerspace storage for weapons appealing. This is largely because the person who becomes or holds the weapon often becomes less of a person and more of a thing to be used. Characterization tends to fail when this type of "power" is used, in my opinion. 2. The characters, so far, are not remarkable. How many stories have we seen with a male lead that is in school, not terribly popular, a bit of a recluse, has some emotional hangup, and just so happens to be in the right place at the right time and given some kind of incredible change in destiny? How many heroines have we seen that start out interesting and become sidelined as a "prop" that tags along with the male lead? How many stories have these two getting together romantically in some fated way? How many cool rebel leaders that kick ass, or obviously psychotic evil villains? Granted...it's only a few episodes, but there's barely any hint of something deeper with these characters. 3. The setting is pretty realistic, but the realism ends with the scenery. Where do you hide giant mechs in a city controlled by a massive occupation force? How does a lone girl get into, and steal from, a supposedly high security facility that contains a highly important object? Why would you enroll into a school and use your real name if you're a wanted terrorist? Can these things be explained later? Sure. But why not just show us rather than tell us? 4. Fanservice. Mechs. Idol Singer. Technology so awesome it's magic. I feel like I've seen all of these (and more) elements before. These and a few other elements have put me off from enjoying the show, or at the very least, taking it as seriously as the initial premise suggested I should. Sometimes I can tolerate these elements, by themselves or together even....but in this particular package I don't find them appealing in the slightest. You can either go for a universe that is plausibly realistic and highly philosophical/mentally engaging (like Ghost in the Shell), or you can embrace the fantasy and the over the top antics, and ditch the realism (like Mai Otome). Trying to do both won't do service to either. I'm sure someone will quote this and disagree, but I'm just stating my opinion. Above all else, a story has to feel plausible given the setting it establishes. I don't feel like this show delivers that, so far. All I feel like I'm seeing here is one trope/cliche after another with no attempt at convincing the audience that it could happen if you just believed. In short, I don't feel any suspension of disbelief while I'm watching. Love, hate, or indifference, it's all opinion. But we're all entitled to those opinions. You can choose to ignore or discuss those opinions. They're as relevant as you want them to be. Just post with some tact and respect. If you can't manage that, don't expect to get a free pass.
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2011-10-26, 16:07 | Link #1211 | |||||||
Banned
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Basically the problem right now is that the Funeral Parlor faction aren't given their personality or cause via their own actions, but merely by the contrast between what they are doing and how reprehensible and black evil the actions of those they claim to stand opposed to are. Their characters, sense of altruism and goals only exist in direct contrast to the GHQ as it stands and this was kind of proven in the first episode. Quote:
As for the school thing, who the heck knows? I wonder if Yoshino even thought that one through or if he just so on autopilot right now as it appears to be that he just doesn't care. It's a popular trope so he threw it in there seems to be the only plausible explanation at the moment. Quote:
These things aren't necessarily a problem in and of itself with the show, it's how they get used that is the issue and right now we're still in the stages of hammering that out. This at the very least I'm willing to give time to see integrated into the plot and hope that they aren't just there as a cynical ploy to attract the maximum number of viewers and demographics. Quote:
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This show is weird, it's like one of the only cases where I've agreed with the critics of the show, but at the same time agreed with the people trying to defend it. Anime fandom and anime in general is in a weird place this season, I'm having the time of my life at the same time as I'm rolling my eyes. |
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2011-10-26, 16:09 | Link #1212 |
NePoi!
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Age: 43
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As an aside, can anyone familiar enough with Japanese please have a look at what episode 2's 4koma is all about?
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2011-10-26, 16:15 | Link #1213 | |||||
Senior Member
Author
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Elemental Gelade also had a lot of characters like this, and I thought that many of them were great. I get your general point, but there are exceptions. Quote:
I can also think of plenty of great characters for each and every "not remarkable" character type that you mentioned. Also, with the exception of some female-dominated casts, it's extremely rare to not have any characters like the first male character type you mentioned there, so I think it's a bit harsh to hold the mere presence of one as a major mark against the anime that has him in it. Really, what you're mentioning here aren't even "character types", per se, but rather popular character skeletons. The key is the "flesh" you build around them, and we're far too early in Guilty Crown yet to know what it is that will be built around them. Quote:
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I disagree with you. I would argue that Star Wars and Star Trek both try to fuse those two elements together, and they both do so quite successfully (well, the original Star Wars trilogy did, anyway). There's also a very well-received 2011 anime that is plausibly realistic and highly philosophical/mentally engaging while embracing fantasy and over the top antics. It's called Madoka Magica. "Plausibly realistic" - The way magic works in that universe is interesting, and internally consistent. Over the top antics - SHAFT being SHAFT Ultimately, we may have to agree to disagree. But I hope that you can see where Guilty Crown defenders, like myself, are coming from.
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2011-10-26, 19:57 | Link #1214 |
Reader
Join Date: Oct 2011
Age: 31
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Its my policy to watch at least eight episodes of a anime before starting to make wholescale judgements on the characters and storyline mainly incase the anime I'm watching pulls a fast one on us.
Also I can agree with both sides in this one. Its true that there is hundreds of variables used to determine ones opinion on each show and its also true that it is only opinion therefor impossible to make a absulute generalizing statement on each fanbase. However I seem to be geting a ruined forever vibe from some people which given how early on Guilty Crown is in its run seems a tad overblown. Now on my opinions on the show itself. Even though I can agree with many of the flaws mentioned on the episodes already shown the only real flaw that makes me wince is the black and white morality shown so far even though it seems Gai might show himself to be something else given his willingness to allow civilians to be executed most likely to motivate Shu and he can gain more support among the populace which from what i've seen really is not that hard given how it seems like ninety nine percent of them should be tying innocent maidens to railroad tracks while laughing which means that unless the rebellion suddenly starts eating babys while guning down a pack of orphans its easy to tell who's side your supossed to be on. I can forgive the early characterization issues primarily because of the pacing when you get a breakneck pacing like how they have had for the first few episodes its hard to really build the characters. However now that they are in a less make a decison now or die environment. They need to slow down the pacing in order to allow the viewers more into the minds of the characters if they try to keep the current pacing up then they will have issues its too blindly fast in other words. On the fanservice...its no Sekion No Qwaser or anything near that bad so as long as they keep it at a normal level and don't over use it I won't complain. Animation is great and there budget must be godly to offord this amount of detail lets just hope that the money flows otherwise we might start seeing cuts everywhere. All in all the next few episodes will either make it or break it depending on where they go with it. |
2011-10-26, 21:23 | Link #1215 | |||||||
Also a Lolicon
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I'm enjoying Guilty Crown a lot, though I feel that all this great production value effort would have been better spent on a better story, with deeper characters and a more captivating plot. Do I hate it? No, quite honestly I'm loving it. I just have a few complaints with whoever decided to pour all this effort of execution into a very mediocre story.
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Lets choose a famous one: Random32's Quick List of Complaints About Star Wars: -What is this "hyperspace" thing? Hyperspace my ass! -Mass ratios are way off for the types of maneuvers being performed. -Fighters lose their advantage in most space combat scenarios. -Why aren't all the Trade Federation droids extremely laggy? They are obviously controlled completely by the command vessel which is in orbit! If they aren't, why did they stop moving the instant the command ship was blown up? -Energy shields? -Lasers don't work that way! -Why aren't there any handrails on Coruscunt docking areas since they are a good kilometer above the ground. -Various other safety violations. -Why can't Anakin just rotate his fighter 180 degrees and shoot the people tailing him? -Why are bridges of starships mounted in positions similar to wet navy ships when that position gives no advantages compared to placing it somewhere less likely to get hit by a stray A wing? -The Force. srsly? The trick is suspending your reality to make way for the fiction's one. Quote:
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2011-10-26, 21:42 | Link #1216 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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It's like a magician's magic trick. Magicians use a lot of showmanship and misdirection to get the audience to see/believe what the magician wants. If the magician is not up to par, his tricks will be seen through, especially if it's a trick that's been done a lot. |
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2011-10-26, 22:26 | Link #1217 |
Tsukiyomi -Moon Phase-
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I'm a little confused about what "power of kings" does. It seems like Shu can create a weapon from pulling something from people's chest The thing is how do they know what that weapon is? e.g. the kaleidoscope in episode 2, did I miss something?
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action, noitamina, production_ig |
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