2012-07-18, 00:24 | Link #81 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Sorry to break this down to everyone, but there is nothing more devoid of meaning as the "test of time" criteria.
History is a story, and what a certain society regards as history (with connotation of factual) is just a construct -usually coming from the ones holding power and information- to essentially make propaganda. Due to this, which things are or aren't "classics", "timeless" or "historic truths" is something that itself varies with time. Let me bring up the example of the Laocoön: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laoco%C3%B6n_and_His_Sons For a thousand years and more, there was one way of analysing this sculpture and its restorations that relied on the prominent diagonal that crossed it. It was a fact that there was a clear diagonal in this piece, there was no way of not seeing it, and no way that the artist didn't intend to do that. Countless of essays and reviews were made about not only this piece, but the whole hellenistic period of Greek art, using the diagonal as a symbol and base for it. Well, turns out that diagonal didn't exist in the original Greek piece, as the arm wasn't extended pointing to the sky but bent in the opposite direction, destroying the whole 'diagonal' interpretation. I hope this post makes itself clear as to what I mean when I say that the "test of time" is meaningless. Regarding what is or isn't a masterpiece, it's a moot discussion. Nobody who thinks fiction (or even any would-be truth or fact) can be defined and criticised somewhat objectively will ever agree with someone that leaves everything to subjectivity. It's a fundamental difference in ideology. |
2012-07-18, 01:04 | Link #82 |
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Er, you're thinking too hard.
The only true "objectivity" is accomplished by masses. Any argument you have of any criteria is otherwise subjective to one's opinions. When something passes through test of time, the more base of input there is. (due to the fact its critique has passed several generations = larger base) That's all. It's just about numbers.
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2012-07-18, 06:37 | Link #83 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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"Base of input" doesn't stack.
When time passes, things that were widely regarded as bad can come to be widely regarded as good, and vice versa. Same applies to popularity. And the relevant part is that whether things were regarded as good or bad, popular or obscure during a given time, follows the same process. |
2012-07-18, 07:19 | Link #84 |
Banned
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Planet of the Apes (original). Was a classic and a very good movie when it came out. Surprising twist ending. Masses REALLY liked it. If a lot of people liking something made it a masterpiece, then it would be considered one now. It's not. At best, it is considered a classic, but it's flaws are now apparent and is seen as silly in retrospect.
In other words, time changed everyone's opinion. In contrast, The Godfather is still seen as a masterpiece even today. A masterpiece can stand the test of time. |
2012-07-18, 07:39 | Link #85 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Seriously what is the point of arguing if you are just going to twist words? First you guys argue that masterpieces are essentially a classic now you're saying a classic is not a masterpiece and then push the very definition of a classic as masterpiece. To be fair it's not that I disagree that classics aren't necessarily a masterpiece(my main argument to begin with is that classics and masterpieces are 2 different things) but this kind of flip flopping in an argument...
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2012-07-18, 08:49 | Link #87 | |
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Location: Tennessee
Age: 36
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Quote:
(also I don't really care what stories people in general consider masterpieces because imo people that aren't me tend to have bad opinions) |
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2012-07-18, 09:23 | Link #88 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Quote:
As for your point... I'll just say this again... it is pointless to even continue because you are subscribing to your very own definition of the word.
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Last edited by MartianMage; 2012-07-18 at 10:42. |
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2012-07-18, 10:56 | Link #89 |
One PUNCH!
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Perhaps the current discussion is all that can be wrung out of the thread title as is, and since the original poster (Soliloquy) agrees, I'll close this thread. If anyone else feels that the discussion can be extended, please create another thread for that discussion (I'd suggest the title of 'Which anime do you consider to be a "masterpiece?"').
Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2012-07-18 at 11:22. |
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