Question: Should the Rep System be changed?

[felix]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Just wondering, where would the report tool be for this?

You need to PM or VM one of the moderators (possibly administrators). You can find a list of them here: View Forum Leaders.

[MeoTwister5]

Actually I'd agree that the repping shouldn't be anonymous because anonymity on the net is already an established fact of usage, and this really comes out when people throw pointless reps left and right, good and bad rep, without even stating why or even worse leaving a pointless comment/face/lettering. People think they can get away with it just because it doesn't show who they are.

I for one don't really care if I get neg repped but isn't it common courtesy to leave a rational comment as to why you gave such rep, or at least your name?

[Triple_R]

Well, there does seem to be a bit of a consensus developing around the idea of ending the anonymous nature of the rep system, at least.

Maybe that would be the best way to go.

Ending the anonymous nature of the rep system would cause people to think twice before handing out negative reps, since it might result in reciprocity if the person who receives the negative rep feels that it was unjustified. This would likely cut back on the more questionable neg reps, while still allowing neg reps to have some value as a guard against genuinely flaming or trollish posts.

Trying to put myself in the Moderators shoes for a second... this would also mean less work for the Moderators then a more report-based approach. Posters could kind of police the neg reps themselves by reciprocating to posters who abuse the system.


I'll admit that I might be taking things a bit too seriously, but at the same time, I've seen a few decent threads in the past really get hit hard by excessive neg repping. This can cause the threads to go off-topic as people talk about the neg reps being passed out instead of about the topic at hand. So, good discussions (like I would say people were having over subs in the thread I linked to in the OP) can come to a perhaps premature grinding halt.


So, perhaps the rep system should remain as is, but simply remove the anonymous nature here as some posters here have suggested. Perhaps this alone could give us the best of all worlds, so to speak.

Is this something that the mods are open to?

[SaintessHeart]

I do agree. The rep system needs to have anonymity removed. If a flame war starts out, it would be the initial negrepper who takes the blame : negrepping someone is as good as being childish by not accepting the other person's opinion.

[xris]

There has been a lot of talk about removing the anonymous nature of the rep system or removing the ability of awarding negative reps altogether. Similar changes have been suggested in the past so I shall just step in with a reality check here and make the same replies that have been made in the past.

Originally Posted by xris

Feel free to suggest this to the vB development team so they can implement it in their next release

If such changes are to be made to the rep system then you will need to ask the vB development team, not us.

As for those who like to suggest that everything can be achieved via plugins or hack then again, a reminder.

Originally Posted by xris

Feel free to write, test and maintain the plugins and hacks yourself. Once you do feel free to submit them to us for consideration.

Our current choices are that the Reputation System is either turned on or turn off. There is no current third choice.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, there does seem to be a bit of a consensus developing around the idea of ending the anonymous nature of the rep system, at least

Unless that consensus is among the Admin and Mods, you comment is neither here or there. The forum is not some sort of democracy.

Can I also reminder posters here that it might help if you had a read of the forum rules, in particular the last section, 4.0 Reputation Rules

If anyone receives an abusive rep comment then please inform us and we will deal with it. We (the Mods and Admin) can see who posted reputation awards and if they are indeed breaking the forum rules then the poster will be sent a Warning or Infraction.

Also remember that receiving a negative rep that simply disagrees with your viewpoint is not considered abusive as is.

Originally Posted by felix

Here at animesuki you can go into any discussion thread, completly ignore the conversation aspect of being in a forum and just start babling how the show is crap, imply the people watching it are retards, weird or just not into this "cool kids" category "you" have and do whatever other kind of trolling (or some call it "flaimbaiting) you wish. This is considered "expressing your opinion" and you may express your opinion every day of every week. If anyone even tries to defend against your annoying monolog, that someone will get banned because "you" were only "expressing your opinion" (however subjective oxymoronic it may have been). Thing is "you" speaking in general about fans of the anime is never really attacking anyone in the thread with your statements, but if someone in the thread speaking in general about haters of the anime will always be considered to be attacking you. Yes its a double-standard of the forum, learn it and avoid it.

I would like to point out this is total BS (as has already been questioned by Triple_R). You (felix) should already know this but as so often in the past, reality and fantasy is somewhat of a blur for you. I can only assume that spreading such inaccuracies is what passes for trolling for you.

Please remember that the Mods do not read every post of every thread and are not online 24/7. I'm sure such situations have occurred in the past but if you feel that the forum rules (or for that matter, the spirit of the rules) are being broken then feel free to make use of the Report button and let us know what is going on.

I would also like to add that similar requests have been made in the past. I think most of the questions have been answered in the following thread.

Receiving reputation - The right to respond

That thread has been locked, as more likely this thread will be to.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by xris

If such changes are to be made to the rep system then you will need to ask the vB development team, not us.

As for those who like to suggest that everything can be achieved via plugins or hack then again, a reminder.

Our current choices are that the Reputation System is either turned on or turn off. There is no current third choice.

Before it's locked, I'd like to inquire something: sometimes I receive reps that are "whitened out," and as the FAQ indicates it's apparently from someone who hasn't been here long enough/post enough to have an effect yet. However, I wonder if it's possible for me to at least know if the person is seeking to make a negative or a positive rep -- or is that not an available option for vB's rep system?

[xris]

Not exactly the correct thread to ask this in

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Before it's locked, I'd like to inquire something: sometimes I receive reps that are "whitened out," and as the FAQ indicates it's apparently from someone who hasn't been here long enough/post enough to have an effect yet. However, I wonder if it's possible for me to at least know if the person is seeking to make a negative or a positive rep -- or is that not an available option for vB's rep system?

This info is not even made visible to Admin thanks to the less than stellar vB Mod/Admin tools.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by xris

Not exactly the correct thread to ask this in

I should've thought this through a little better and ask it at the silly questions thread instead, but my brain isn't at full capacity right now after a whole night's worth of DotA-ing.

Thanks for the answer in any case. Even an Admin wouldn't know it? Eh, vB.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by james0246

If the mods were to simply add a feature where the poster's name always appears (no matter if they give positive or negative points), then the majority of the frivolous neg reps would probably disappear completely (I assume that those anonymous individuals that incorrectly use the neg rep function would also be the posters that most fear being neg repped in return if their anonymity were taken away).

I concur. This is something that I feel the mods should implement. It's very disrespectful for users to negative rep someone anonymously (especially when it is done in an insulting/offensive manner) just because of a disagreement. This happened to me recently in the "One Piece" thread. My favorite character in that series is a villain named Blackbeard, and users vehemently attack me for giving arguments in his defense. People have to learn how to respect others' opinions.

[cyth]

The reputation system is just a game and you guys are taking it way too seriously. Triple_R has been hanging out on Facebook too much, it seems.

[xris]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I concur. This is something that I feel the mods should implement.

And I think it somewhat rude when posters don't even bother reading some of the recent posts

Originally Posted by xris

There has been a lot of talk about removing the anonymous nature of the rep system or removing the ability of awarding negative reps altogether. Similar changes have been suggested in the past so I shall just step in with a reality check here and make the same replies that have been made in the past.

If such changes are to be made to the rep system then you will need to ask the vB development team, not us.

As for those who like to suggest that everything can be achieved via plugins or hack then again, a reminder.

Our current choices are that the Reputation System is either turned on or turn off. There is no current third choice.

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

It's very disrespectful for users to negative rep someone anonymously (especially when it is done in an insulting/offensive manner) just because of a disagreement. This happened to me recently in the "One Piece" thread. My favorite character in that series is a villain named Blackbeard, and users vehemently attack me for giving arguments in his defense. People have to learn how to respect others' opinions.

It's also rather disrespectful when posters whinge and whine about receiving neg rep as it typically has nothing to do with the actual topic. We also specifically request in the forum rules that you don't make such comments.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by felix

Here at animesuki you can go into any discussion thread, completly ignore the conversation aspect of being in a forum and just start babling how the show is crap, imply the people watching it are retards, weird or just not into this "cool kids" category "you" have and do whatever other kind of trolling (or some call it "flaimbaiting) you wish. This is considered "expressing your opinion" and you may express your opinion every day of every week. If anyone even tries to defend against your annoying monolog, that someone will get banned because "you" were only "expressing your opinion" (however subjective oxymoronic it may have been). Thing is "you" speaking in general about fans of the anime is never really attacking anyone in the thread with your statements, but if someone in the thread speaking in general about haters of the anime will always be considered to be attacking you. Yes its a double-standard of the forum, learn it and avoid it.

This site is easily one of the cleaner ones when it comes to discussion. I'm not saying everyone always gets along, but compared to many other forums, offensive content is pretty limited. Typically flamebaiting goes both ways.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

My apologies, xris. I posted my comments in a rush without having read any of the posts prior to mine. It wasn't my intention to come off as whiny; I'm just stating that anonymity in the reputation system should be removed, so as to deter users from abusing negative rep. Thanks for letting us know that the vB development team are the ones to consult on this matter .

[felix]

(xris also refers to this, but he touches another point)

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

This site is easily one of the cleaner ones when it comes to discussion. I'm not saying everyone always gets along, but compared to many other forums, offensive content is pretty limited. Typically flamebaiting goes both ways.

Post continues with...

I know I am biased about it, but go read what you said (see quotes) and you'll realize you are also just as biased to one side as I am. Of course like me, you never see the other side's version (ever!) so as far as each of us are concerned there is only "our own truth" and everyone has to bend to it in every situation.

Since every situation will always be faithful to our side. /sarcasm

Do you understand now what I meant earlier by "subjective"?

The part you quoted is meant as a fleshed out example of what being biased/subjective means. You don't have to tell me you disagree with it Archon, its worded as such that I doubt anyone would agree with it; which was the point ie. writing "opinions" though the prism of your own bias won't get you or the discussion anywhere. There it was simply directed. I'll break it down in a list so maybe its easier to swallow...

• "Your" opinion is filtered though the other person reading it 's "opinion"
• Hence, "your" opinion is not necessarily non-offensive/non-vulgar/non-biased/objective just because you want it to be (or it looks that way for you); yes I know its troublesome.

Or if we were to take the recent "disable negative reputation" comments...

• "I did not write my post to hurt nobody, people don't have the right to feel hurt"
• "I think of myself as a angel, therefore I am and thus everything I say is good" (similarly with "being smart")
• Or the alternative version: "People have no right to de-rep me when I'm not feeling like a bad person."
• "I wrote this in a good tone why are people reading it in a bad tone? They have no right to do that! (it must be spam!)"; coincidently people are not likely to read the word "anime" the same as you, let alone read your post with the tone you imagined when writing it, so don't assume that.

Although you are right that it can go both ways, although I really don't see the legitimate spaming/trolling for no reason happening all that often, and when it does you have the option of reporting to a moderator resulting in a ban; which is better then any private falme war possibly resulting in getting you banned for starting it.

[The Small One]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I concur. This is something that I feel the mods should implement. It's very disrespectful for users to negative rep someone anonymously (especially when it is done in an insulting/offensive manner) just because of a disagreement. This happened to me recently in the "One Piece" thread. My favorite character in that series is a villain named Blackbeard, and users vehemently attack me for giving arguments in his defense. People have to learn how to respect others' opinions.

I'm tired of this discussion, we had so many times before.

Anonymous rep is good as it is. If the system weren't anonymous anymore, it would lead to more abuse and biased opinions. You would' think stuff like "This is a nice guy, he gave me a good rep" or "He neg-repped me, I don't like him so he get's a neg-rep from me too". This wouldn't even need to be a concious development.

[Marcus H.]

Okay, seems this topic, in all honesty, is pointless and will only end up with a retcon.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by The Small One

I'm tired of this discussion, we had so many times before.

This may be the first time for some people. I'm one of them, so show some consideration.

Originally Posted by The Small One

Anonymous rep is good as it is. If the system weren't anonymous anymore, it would lead to more abuse and biased opinions. You would' think stuff like "This is a nice guy, he gave me a good rep" or "He neg-repped me, I don't like him so he get's a neg-rep from me too". This wouldn't even need to be a concious development.

If you've read people's posts in this thread, you would see why people complain about abusing anonymity in the rep system. And you're generalizing how people would react if the anonymous feature was removed. Everyone is different.

[felix]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

And you're generalizing how people would react if the anonymous feature was removed. Everyone is different.

Look at the posts above on this page and the one before. I don't know if I would call "generalizing" bad here when 99% of posters in favor of removing anonymity seem to react (already) exactly as described. Some of them even describe how they would go and pm/vm the people who gave them bad reputation to ask for detail explanation or "engage in a discussion over it" (ie. flamewar) .

There are really only two options (as others have mentioned before me) either the system stays as-is or is completely removed.

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

This may be the first time for some people. I'm one of them, so show some consideration.

Don't mean to sound inconsiderate but, on this forum we do not repeat discussions and we do not duplicate threads. The only reason this discussion is not merged into one of the old Reputation threads is because all of them are closed so merging would result in this discussion being closed as well. You are free of course to bring something new to the table (concerning reputation), but please try to avoid things which have already been discussed enough already.

[TheFluff]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

A particular thread on the General Anime board has left me wondering if the Negative Rep aspect of the Rep system is worth it or not.

Here is the thread in particular.

In particular, here are four posts that I think speak to how the neg rep aspect of the rep system is perhaps being overly abused.

As I wrote in one of those links, I once saw the neg rep aspect of the rep system as providing a good barrier against genuinely trollish or abusively flaming posting.

However, I'm starting to think that neg reps are now used primarily over a simple and civil difference of opinion.

If so, is the neg rep aspect of the rep system worth it? Should we scrap it?

Just something I want to throw out there for the Moderating staff, and other fellow posters here, to consider.

The facts that you and other people are
a) inexperienced internet users who are easily trolled (thereby contributing to the continued use of the system for purposes of trolling), and
b) terrible people with terrible opinions
are not what I'd call valid reasons for criticizing the system.

I'm not saying that the system is flawless, though; there are valid criticisms. You could for example argue that it's completely pointless because it's only used for epenis and trolling. That would be a valid criticism, at least on a theoretical level, but since most users of the forums seem to like at least one of those two, chances are that it would not sway the opinion of the admins.

Personally I'm all for extending the system so that people with negative rep gets posting impairments; it'd make the forum a much more interesting place.


also, brb, negrepping everyone complaining about rep in that thread for being bad at the internet and everyone else in it for being bad weeaboo posters with terrible opinions about translation

[xris]

Originally Posted by xris

There has been a lot of talk about removing the anonymous nature of the rep system or removing the ability of awarding negative reps altogether.

If such changes are to be made to the rep system then you will need to ask the vB development team, not us.

Our current choices are that the Reputation System is either turned on or turn off. There is no current third choice.

I was in error in making this statement it seems, NightWish has informed me of the following.

The existing vB forum software does allow us the following options.

(i) Can See Who Left User Ratings - Yes / No (i.e. remove the anonymous nature of the rep system).
(ii) Can Leave Negative Reputation - Yes / No (i.e remove the ability of awarding negative reps altogether).

Currently we have these two options set to "No" and "Yes" respectively.

Therefore it wouldn't be that difficult to change the setting. Please note that just because it is possible, it doesn't mean we will be changing anything at this point in time.

We (the Mods and Admin) will no doubt discuss the matter but to be honest I think the general consensus is to leave things the way they are. If anything, if we did make a change it would be to simply turn off the Reputation System altogether.