Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 04 Discussion / Poll

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yes, because right now, the world is divided into three rather solid powerblocks, and the Middle East is largely irrelevant.

Ugh,

Let's go over this again

politics hasn't changed too much.

This is a relative word. Nevertheless some of the conflicts and sentiments we see still carry into 00. Beijing, Washington DC, and European Unions are the centers of the 3 major powers that exist in 00.

by putting it into the 24th century they can push it a bit more and it gives them some artistic license to manipulate things

The base is there but they have the ability to push and rearrange things to their likings.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The world IS divided into two powerblocks and a third rather weak one. And there is an obsession with energy supply security. Middle East as an area IS largely irrelevant; what, you think all that current attention was about the local culture?

I said "solid". Europe, for example, has big troubles acting as one.

And as for the American powerblock - I haven't exactly noticed the complete submission of South America to the US.

Oh, and what about Russia and China? What do we make of them?


And Middle East isn't irrelevant. Why do you think the Gulf Wars happened? I don't know what you mean by "as an area", or why you mentioned it at all. I was just pointing out that, whereas today's big countries make all kinds of plays to assert their influences on the Middle Eastern countries and their oil reserves, in 00, nobody really cares about what happens there. They have no oil anymore, and people have learnt to make do without anyway.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I said "solid". Europe, for example, has big troubles acting as one.

And as for the American powerblock - I haven't exactly noticed the complete submission of South America to the US.

Oh, and what about Russia and China? What do we make of them?


And Middle East isn't irrelevant. Why do you think the Gulf Wars happened? I don't know what you mean by "as an area", or why you mentioned it at all. I was just pointing out that, whereas today's big countries make all kinds of plays to assert their influences on the Middle Eastern countries and their oil reserves, in 00, nobody really cares about what happens there. They have no oil anymore, and people have learnt to make do without anyway.

The Gulf wars happened because outsiders actually cared about stability in the area, compared to other equally war-torn places like Africa. The fighting started before oil was valuable, and it continued in 00 even when oil ceased to be valuable. The foreign interests merely stopped interfering in 00 without energy interests, as such everything in the area went back to small scale killings.

Th Middle East in 00 is exactly the Middle East it always had been. Once upon a time it was wealthy because of its once-fertile lands. Then it was wealthy because of the silk and spice routes between East and West. And currently it is wealthy because of oil. But conflict had always been there. The amount of money in the economy merely alter the scale of fighting.
The current 00 Middle East is poor. But the fighting continued, because the feuds had been going on since before even the discovery of oil. This is consistent with our world.

The Middle East isn't unimportant, exactly; every piece of land on the Earth has value. However, the nature of local politics and instability means outsiders wouldn't want to get involved unless they feel they absolutely had to. If people don't care for it, then it is unimportant and irrelevant. (When is the last time you seriously considered how instability in nations like Ethiopia might affect your nation?)

[Anh_Minh]

And that's my point.

The Middle East may not have changed, but its importance to the rest of the world has. Nowadays, people care about what happens there. It's relevant to quite a few things, including what people pay to fill their cars' tank when they go to work. In 00, they don't, and it isn't.

[Calawain]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Can you be more specific in what made you laugh?

The best example would be the fact that all of a sudden after hundreds of years of intense hatred and violence that Celestial Being was able to create peace in Ireland after a week of showy violence. It was just plain ridiculous, I'm half Irish and I've done quite a bit of study in the area, and I couldn't stop laughing.

[SonicX_Zero]

Originally Posted by Calawain

The best example would be the fact that all of a sudden after hundreds of years of intense hatred and violence that Celestial Being was able to create peace in Ireland after a week of showy violence. It was just plain ridiculous, I'm half Irish and I've done quite a bit of study in the area, and I couldn't stop laughing.

Its Gundam, what were you expecting? o.O;;

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Calawain

The best example would be the fact that all of a sudden after hundreds of years of intense hatred and violence that Celestial Being was able to create peace in Ireland after a week of showy violence. It was just plain ridiculous, I'm half Irish and I've done quite a bit of study in the area, and I couldn't stop laughing.

No they didn't.

As Lockon just pointed out, they are simply keeping low to avoid getting blasted to bits by CB.

The moment CB falters, they'll go right back at it.

That's kinda why we hear the Gundam pilots talk about how "It's not easy to eradicate war."

[Calawain]

Originally Posted by SonicX_Zero

Its Gundam, what were you expecting? o.O;;

I never got around to watching Gundam before, it never interested me. So I really couldn't have any expectations beyond the fact that robots were going to fight each other. This season I decided that as a fan of anime I should at least watch one of them and this one looked pretty at least.

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

No they didn't.

As Lockon just pointed out, they are simply keeping low to avoid getting blasted to bits by CB.

The moment CB falters, they'll go right back at it.

That's kinda why we hear the Gundam pilots talk about how "It's not easy to eradicate war."

I think you are mischaracterizing the nature of the conflict in Ireland. Celestial Being can send Gundams around and blow up mobile suits, tanks, bases, etc. The conflict in Ireland is not fought in such open means, it's terrorism/freedom fighting depending on how you want to categorize it. Four Gundams could do nothing to stop fighting in Ireland, so the idea that blowing up Sri Lanka or whatever could convince the IRA to sign a cease fire is preposterous.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

I think you are mischaracterizing the nature of the conflict in Ireland. Celestial Being can send Gundams around and blow up mobile suits, tanks, bases, etc. The conflict in Ireland is not fought in such open means, it's terrorism/freedom fighting depending on how you want to categorize it. Four Gundams could do nothing to stop fighting in Ireland, so the idea that blowing up Sri Lanka or whatever could convince the IRA to sign a cease fire is preposterous

No I am not.

However, we are talking about 00's world, not our own so there are things that are stretched for simplicity and dramatic and story-telling purposes. Why they choose the IRA I have no idea.

Marina's advisor even noted to her that if she doesn't find a way to get the country back on track, CB will appear. It seems that the general idea is that if there's some strife going on, CB will intervene. I suppose the IRA and the other organizations or whatever simply don't want some giant gundams to appear and start smashing their cities.

How that would happen I wouldn't know.

In fact, if it makes you feel better, that's what everyone's saying.

Sergei, "Do they really think they stopped a 300 year conflict with a single armed intervention?"

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And that's my point.

The Middle East may not have changed, but its importance to the rest of the world has. Nowadays, people care about what happens there. It's relevant to quite a few things, including what people pay to fill their cars' tank when they go to work. In 00, they don't, and it isn't.

The only thing changed is now they fill their cars with electricity or hydrogen. As such, they still care about having a steady reliable power source to keep their cars running. Talibia's attempt to take control of all Union electric power was thus given the appropriate response. The people in 00 merely diverted their attention from Middle East to the Pillars and pipes.

What matters isn't where the power is coming from, but that power is coming out.

[Itadakimasu!]

I think the idea is that CB's strategy represents "shock and awe" working effectively... Besides CB has no reason not to conduct quasi-terror acts in their intervention, such as laying waste to civilian infrastructure. This may not solve conflict outright...but everyone will want to lay low

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Itadakimasu!

I think the idea is that CB's strategy represents "shock and awe" working effectively... Besides CB has no reason not to conduct quasi-terror acts in their intervention, such as laying waste to civilian infrastructure. This may not solve conflict outright...but everyone will want to lay low

Especially since terrorists couldn't fight back against CB, as they don't know where the CB infrastructures are and also if there is any civilian population that directly connects with them politically. CB is effectively a terrorist's terrorists.

[Itadakimasu!]

Originally Posted by Calawain

I think you are mischaracterizing the nature of the conflict in Ireland. Celestial Being can send Gundams around and blow up mobile suits, tanks, bases, etc. The conflict in Ireland is not fought in such open means, it's terrorism/freedom fighting depending on how you want to categorize it. Four Gundams could do nothing to stop fighting in Ireland, so the idea that blowing up Sri Lanka or whatever could convince the IRA to sign a cease fire is preposterous.

Well... I'd have to disagree with you on that. It depends on what's being done. In ancient times, if you rebelled, not only would they kill your family but they'd raze your village as well. I'm not saying CB would or should do that... but if one of them landed in a major centre in NI and just started annihilating everything in site.... remember the old adage "my enemy's enemy is my friend?"

I think the whole purpose of Celestial Being is to polarize the world ... sort of like a counter weight that forces the rest of the world to put aside their differences (if only temporarily).

That said... it's probably a fundamentally flawed strategy that sounds like it'd probably devolve into some huge arms race.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The only thing changed is now they fill their cars with electricity or hydrogen. As such, they still care about having a steady reliable power source to keep their cars running. Talibia's attempt to take control of all Union electric power was thus given the appropriate response. The people in 00 merely diverted their attention from Middle East to the Pillars and pipes.

What matters isn't where the power is coming from, but that power is coming out.

So that's what you meant? You could have said.

And while I agree that people do care about getting their energy, I think the elevators' situation is somewhat different from today's Middle East's. For one
thing, the Big Three don't seem to have to step on eggs when protecting their interests. Their control over the relevant regions is much firmer.

Maybe it's because, while there are more than three oil wells in the world, if you lose an Elevator, you're pretty much done.