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Master Assassin · 2012-03-25, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by leukrota

@ Doc Astaroth - Indeed, a "common" Saint could have done the same thing.

Still, the "worf effect" was established by having Touma beat the volume's big boss, virtually winning the Natural Selector, only to be instantly trashed by the new character.

Though, having remembered that this is not the first time he got his arm off his torso... I can totally imagine him going "Not again... this sucks. It hurts like hell you know. Fukou da."

Village Idiot · 2012-03-25, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by leukrota

@ Doc Astaroth - Indeed, a "common" Saint could have done the same thing.

Still, the "worf effect" was established by having Touma beat the volume's big boss, virtually winning the Natural Selector, only to be instantly trashed by the new character.

The worf effect for this volume was for Ollerus and Fiamma, especially since the author deliberaltely let Fiamma gain his Holy Right back.

tsunade666 · 2012-03-25, 19:42

^ This time it hurts a lot more because the arm is crushed and not cut off.

leukrota · 2012-03-25, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

Not really. Touma's already been stomped to hell and back countless times, sometimes more than once in a single volume. And half the time, it's because of sheer surprise.

Hmm... It still could be from Maria's perspective. After hearing the Kamijou's Mythos, Touma arrived at the last moment to save the day with an epic fight against the Gremlin monster... Though this way it goes in favor of Othinus, Ollerus and Fiamma I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

It's like saying Acqua got Worf'd in Vol. 16 because he couldn't anticipate Touma's interference at the last second.

Ok, that makes no sense at all, and it's really different from what I'm saying.

Village Idiot · 2012-03-25, 19:55

The Worf Effect occurs when an established "strong" character gets god stompped by an opponent just to show to the audience how powerful they are.

Acqua being defeated in vol 16 wasn't an example of the worf effect, but Kanzaki VS Acqua was, because we knew how powerful Kanzaki is, but their fight showed the difference between a Saint, and a Saint that is also a member of Gods Right Seat.

Okashira · 2012-03-25, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Acqua being defeated in vol 16 wasn't an example of the worf effect, but Kanzaki VS Acqua

Kanzaki vs Acqua is not a good example because the fight actually lasted long. Furthermore Kanzaki in the end was technically "the winner" by being in the side that defeated Acqua, she wasn't "defeated" through out the fight (just badly pushed back before she realized that she had a team to watch her back).

Kanzaki vs Knight Leader is the perfect example of Worf Effect..... Then again, Stiyl is there.

leukrota · 2012-03-25, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Assassin

Though, having remembered that this is not the first time he got his arm off his torso... I can totally imagine him going "Not again... this sucks. It hurts like hell you know. Fukou da."

LOL, making count he has lost 3 arms already... and he keeps calling himself a "normal" high school student?

EDIT:
Thinking more about the "worg effect" for Othinus, it's definitely established also for the audience, if not by Touma's defeat, by the... "unknown creepy invisible thingy... whatever it is"'s defeat.

Breidaluk · 2012-03-25, 21:05

Now that I think about it, Touma still has his own power that he used to crush "that thing" and make a newright arm . We can conclude that his power is not Imagine Breaker. Imagine Breaker is a power that stays in his right hand, so his own power is something entirely distint. If we see back in vol 22 :

A different power appeared above that great power that had gathered around Kamijou’s shoulder. That other power seemed to open up a large mouth and swallowed up the first power. As if this giant mouth was chewing, the air around the shoulder shook looked like sugar water.

That great power was smashed in an instant.

Probably this is the power that Aleister was preventing everyone to know, to the point of going to Russia to dispose of Fiamma, the only one who saw that. And if Touma could do that his powers can probably be on a higher level than Othinus. That's probably the reason why Imagine Breaker still stick with him like glue.

Sumeragi · 2012-03-25, 21:16

I would need to read the scene (hell, I actually need to read the series), but basically, does that mean Touma has three powers: Imagine Breaker, the Great Power, and the Other Power?

Mr.Kyon · 2012-03-25, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

I would need to read the scene (hell, I actually need to read the series), but basically, does that mean Touma has three powers: Imagine Breaker, the Great Power, and the Other Power?

Yep.

Swiss Army Knife of World-Ending Powers indeed.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-03-25, 21:23

Erm Im pretty sure the name of that other power is called willpower

Acer · 2012-03-25, 21:24

Can you include pregonição half-assed as the fourth power?

Mr.Kyon · 2012-03-25, 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Erm Im pretty sure the name of that other power is called willpower

Then Touma is actually a descendant of Haruhi to have such instantaneous willpower

leukrota · 2012-03-25, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acer

Can you include pregonição half-assed as the fourth power?

I'm almost sure that the "precognition" is a learned feat derived directly from the Imagine Breaker.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-03-25, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Kyon

Then Touma is actually a descendant of Haruhi to have such instantaneous willpower

No, I mean the willpower to suppress whatever that thing was inside of him.

Kirito · 2012-03-25, 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

No, I mean the willpower to suppress whatever that thing was inside of him.

I think he did that during vol 22, after he was having an argument with the "thing" inside him.

~~I_am_Kami~~ · 2012-03-25, 22:04

So Fiamma was at planet busting level when fighting Othinus?

leukrota · 2012-03-25, 22:29

^ I wouldn't expect him to be able to reach that level anymore considering the conditions he needed for that.

The regular "pre-crisis" Holy Right was already strong enough... Somehow I don't think he intervened in the Othinus vs Ollerus fight, but perhaps he was there to make sure others weren't killed from those two going at it.

faiz blaster · 2012-03-25, 22:41

But, if I got it right, during the fight Fianma got back the "world-saving" powers that he attained in the Star of Bethlehem due Kamijou's right hand being cut off by Othinus.

tsunade666 · 2012-03-25, 23:14

^does that mean that the thing inside Touma is not friendly?

Because holy right only activates on something evil or bad. That's why Fiamma targeted the negative side of the world to power it.

2012-03-25, 19:42	Link #17823
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	^ This time it hurts a lot more because the arm is crushed and not cut off. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2012-03-25, 19:55	Link #17825
Village Idiot Fate/ Stay Night Join Date: Jun 2003	The Worf Effect occurs when an established "strong" character gets god stompped by an opponent just to show to the audience how powerful they are. Acqua being defeated in vol 16 wasn't an example of the worf effect, but Kanzaki VS Acqua was, because we knew how powerful Kanzaki is, but their fight showed the difference between a Saint, and a Saint that is also a member of Gods Right Seat. __________________ Sig removed by Mod (xris) because at 65,726 bytes it exceeds the limits as requested in the forum rules.

2012-03-25, 21:23	Link #17831
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Erm Im pretty sure the name of that other power is called willpower __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2012-03-25, 23:14	Link #17840
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	^does that mean that the thing inside Touma is not friendly? Because holy right only activates on something evil or bad. That's why Fiamma targeted the negative side of the world to power it. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2012-03-25, 21:05	Link #17828
Breidaluk Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010	Now that I think about it, Touma still has his own power that he used to crush "that thing" and make a newright arm . We can conclude that his power is not Imagine Breaker. Imagine Breaker is a power that stays in his right hand, so his own power is something entirely distint. If we see back in vol 22 : A different power appeared above that great power that had gathered around Kamijou’s shoulder. That other power seemed to open up a large mouth and swallowed up the first power. As if this giant mouth was chewing, the air around the shoulder shook looked like sugar water. That great power was smashed in an instant. Probably this is the power that Aleister was preventing everyone to know, to the point of going to Russia to dispose of Fiamma, the only one who saw that. And if Touma could do that his powers can probably be on a higher level than Othinus. That's probably the reason why Imagine Breaker still stick with him like glue.

2012-03-25, 21:16	Link #17829
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	I would need to read the scene (hell, I actually need to read the series), but basically, does that mean Touma has three powers: Imagine Breaker, the Great Power, and the Other Power?

2012-03-25, 21:24	Link #17832
Acer Death to the infidels! Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: in a world of pain!	Can you include pregonição half-assed as the fourth power?

2012-03-25, 22:04	Link #17837
~~I_am_Kami~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The 305 Age: 30	So Fiamma was at planet busting level when fighting Othinus?

2012-03-25, 22:29	Link #17838
leukrota Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011	^ I wouldn't expect him to be able to reach that level anymore considering the conditions he needed for that. The regular "pre-crisis" Holy Right was already strong enough... Somehow I don't think he intervened in the Othinus vs Ollerus fight, but perhaps he was there to make sure others weren't killed from those two going at it.

2012-03-25, 22:41	Link #17839
faiz blaster Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008	But, if I got it right, during the fight Fianma got back the "world-saving" powers that he attained in the Star of Bethlehem due Kamijou's right hand being cut off by Othinus.