US Elections 2012 Part II: The Conventions, Debates and Election results

[james0246]

I hope Joe Biden will find a way to nail Paul Ryan tonight just like when he nailed Sarah Palin 4 years ago.

To be fair, that was a debate both sides walked away from happy. Palin looked competent, and Biden looked...well, his strategy was always not to get her the sympathy vote and he succeeded.

Tonight's debate, though, should be less restrained. Hopefully Biden will be able to lay into Romney/Ryan while also presenting a strong front for Obama. To use a predecessor, Biden wants to sound (not look) like Cheney during the 2004 VP debates (where Cheney made Edwards look like a simpering fool, all the while defending Bush's many stupid decisions).

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by james0246

Tonight's debate, though, should be less restrained. Hopefully Biden will be able to lay into Romney/Ryan while also presenting a strong front for Obama. To use a predecessor, Biden wants to sound (not look) like Cheney during the 2004 VP debates (where Cheney made Edwards look like a simpering fool, all the while defending Bush's many stupid decisions).

Biden has no choice but try hitting a home run to tie the ballgame (baseball analogy at this time of the year ). But I have confidence considering how excellent he was at the DNC.; just hoping it won't be another bad day at the office

It's good that you brought the Cheney example about how to know most topics inside out and look very convincing with the decisions made/to be made. When looking back, Edwards looked foolish indeed and it restored the balance back in Bush's favor.

[Vexx]

I remember a couple of ultra-conservative relatives very upset with Biden because he treated her like an adult candidate with opposing views rather than a "woman".

Yes, it should make your head spin.

This is a lot of fun to watch: the Australian PM skewering her knuckle-dragging misogynist opposition:

http://samuel-warde.com/2012/10/aust...-his-misogyny/

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

but if some people were crazy enough to give George W. Bush a second term to see how it does before rightfully crucifying him

I'll just say that John Kerry was not really a good alternative back then. Sure, he was better than Romney, but I see the same problems being applied to Kerry.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

I remember that Bill Clinton was quite into deep crap before the 1996 election and that everyone called for his head because the 1993-96 term had its share of very bad moments (Waco, economy growing very slowly, Oklahoma City, World Trade Center bombing, UN failure in Somalia, a very criticized approach in Bosnia, etc.) and other elements making believe he was a very soft President. STILL, that didn't keep Bill from having probably the strongest term any US President ever had in recent memory between 1997 and 2000 DESPITE the Monica Lewinsky scandal in the midst of this.

I'm in no position to convince American members on Animesuki on who to vote, but if some people were crazy enough to give George W. Bush a second term to see how it does before rightfully crucifying him, I don't see why Obama wouldn't get this chance to redeem himself too. Anyway, I hope Joe Biden will find a way to nail Paul Ryan tonight just like when he nailed Sarah Palin 4 years ago. About Obama, he has to go for the jugular on next Tuesday; f*** the politeness already!

I have to give you some cookies on that. Alot of people forget that Clinton had to go through the same thing, and people was calling for his head. But not only he survive but he became one of the most respect president president in a long time. We can all agreed that Obama didnt do a great job but thinking about this, since he came into office, Unemployment rate went down, Jobless Claims is down, Dow Jones is up, S&P is up and other changes you see. I think Obama deserve a chance to finish this up for 4 more years.

[willx]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

I have to give you some cookies on that. Alot of people forget that Clinton had to go through the same thing, and people was calling for his head. But not only he survive but he became one of the most respect president president in a long time. We can all agreed that Obama didnt do a great job but thinking about this, since he came into office, Unemployment rate went down, Jobless Claims is down, Dow Jones is up, S&P is up and other changes you see. I think Obama deserve a chance to finish this up for 4 more years.

Again, I've got to come over here and throw poop on this -- I love Clinton, he's incredibly charismatic, but his amazing presidency includes what we now know is massive false growth and a giant economic bubble..

That, and despite how we all think of Bush Jr., there are actually quite a few Americans that see him as displaying, and I quote, "strong leadership post-911" -- I don't say I agree, but lots(?) of people think that.

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by willx

Again, I've got to come over here and throw poop on this -- I love Clinton, he's incredibly charismatic, but his amazing presidency includes what we now know is massive false growth and a giant economic bubble..

That, and despite how we all think of Bush Jr., there are actually quite a few Americans that see him as displaying, and I quote, "strong leadership post-911" -- I don't say I agree, but lots(?) of people think that.

, I know that but he isnt like the fail magnets that we had in the Oval Office.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by willx

That, and despite how we all think of Bush Jr., there are actually quite a few Americans that see him as displaying, and I quote, "strong leadership post-911" -- I don't say I agree, but lots(?) of people think that.

A lot of people apparently think PBS gets between 5% and 50% of the entire US budget too. Doesn't mean they're right.

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Biden has no choice but try hitting a home run to tie the ballgame (baseball analogy at this time of the year ). But I have confidence considering how excellent he was at the DNC.; just hoping it won't be another bad day at the office

It's good that you brought the Cheney example about how to know most topics inside out and look very convincing with the decisions made/to be made. When looking back, Edwards looked foolish indeed and it restored the balance back in Bush's favor.

It also didn't hurt Bush's chances that no sitting president who had gone for a second term during wartime had lost. And of course back then the heavy media coverage especially helped keep the Middle-east operations in the public's mind.

Doesn't do that so much anymore, with people growing tired of war and trying to keep it in the back of their minds, so Obama doesn't really have that advantage to the same extent as Bush. And if he loses, he'll end up being that first.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by willx

Again, I've got to come over here and throw poop on this -- I love Clinton, he's incredibly charismatic, but his amazing presidency includes what we now know is massive false growth and a giant economic bubble..

That, and despite how we all think of Bush Jr., there are actually quite a few Americans that see him as displaying, and I quote, "strong leadership post-911" -- I don't say I agree, but lots(?) of people think that.

Yes, charging ahead without the correct facts is wonderfully strong leadership. Stupid sheep are they

Clinton was our first modern "center right corporatist" president. The '90s is when banks & Wall Street got a good grip on both sides of the aisle -- it was this period when Main Street got kicked into the street, it was a few years before the bus rolled up over it.

There's a bumper sticker that says something like, "If you voted for Bush twice and think Obama is the worst president in history, you really need to stop talking now." ... because it pretty much just documents what a peasant tool of the aristocracy one is if they keep talking.

[Netto Azure]

Originally Posted by Vexx

My vote choice is being made for me by the social conservative extremists in the neo-GOP (of whom Ryan is a documented part of and Romney flutters when they say boo to him). I'm simply not going to watch the rights of half the population be twisted backwards a century. I'm not going to quietly let insane irrational zealots get their hands on the government buttons. If the Congress is going to stay GOP or split, I want a Dem in the White House. When it comes to selecting Supreme Court justices over the next four years, I don't want more constitutional train wreck corporate lackeys like Scalia or Thomas.

This is it pretty much. To quote another person who made somewhat the same point:

Viewing the election as a contest between two people named Obama and Romney is a simplistic approach at best, no matter how delightful Mitt's personality tics and one-percenter utterances may be. A vote for "Romney" is a vote for sad sack Bush-Cheney neocons seeking a new lease on life, a vote for the Heritage Foundation, a vote for more Scalias, Alitos, and Thomases. Romney's "character" -- if it can be said he has one -- has little to do with any of this; people should be talking instead about the cast of characters he'd bring to the White House.

Same goes for Obama: his extended network includes Planned Parenthood, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, more Sotomayors and Kagans, and countless invisible players behind the scenes. I'm not saying every last one of them is perfect, but when you look at the groups as a whole, the difference is stark. Harder to fit on a bumper sticker maybe, but these are the candidates you're really voting for.

So yes while most of us are truly tired of the "corporatist" influence in both parties, remember that whenever you vote, you are voting for who composes the rest of the bureaucracy and various government offices as well.

[james0246]

And Biden comes out swinging. Clear and consice differences between the President and Romney. A little heavy handed, but still simplistic (which is good for these types of debates) and sweet. Ryan's doing well, though and all in the first minutes.

[KiraYamatoFan]

I really hate that emotion bar on CNN

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

I really hate that emotion bar on CNN

CNN comes with a "mood ring"? O holy garbage .... I'm watching the PBS channel, less BS.

I think "values" is Ryan's favorite word. As if he were the only one with values - that's a nice bit of religious code word use. After all, non-christians don't have values.

Biden's advantage is simply several decades of classical oratory. Ryan, I'll give credit for, so far, he's avoiding direct confrontation at all with Biden.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Now, Ryan tries putting himself into the point of views of the ayatollahs... *facepalms*

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by Vexx

CNN comes with a "mood ring"? O holy garbage .... I'm watching the PBS channel, less BS.

I think "values" is Ryan's favorite word. As if he were the only one with values - that's a nice bit of religious code word use. After all, non-christians don't have values.

Yes, PBS is pretty much the only station I'll watch these things on, for the same reasons.

I thought it interesting that he talked about "standing up for our values" directly after being asked about the urinating on corpses. As if, those are our values?

[Netto Azure]

Loving Biden so far. Coming out swinging and saying that Iran isn't a threat yet. Tell it what it is.

Plus Martha Radditz is a great moderator. (b")b

[KiraYamatoFan]

Throw out the politeness out of the window! About time I see something as such from the Dems.

[james0246]

Yeah, Radditz is doing a good job.

I'm watching on MSNBC. The split screen is fun, but besides that there is no real spangles to the presentation.

Also, it's a lot of fun to watch the exchanges between Biden and Ryan.

[Netto Azure]

Oh hell yeah finally the 47% reference. I love you Biden!!!