AnimeSuki Forums

Ichi-Hane-Enjeru · 2004-01-21, 17:34

people say Im good at drawing and stuff like that. and i hate to brag but i am
better than the average person. there is a problem tho. i havent improved much
of my art skills. i was wondering if learning to draw with guidelines help make it
better.

Splur · 2004-01-21, 17:52

Quote:

Posted by Ichi-Hane-Enjeru
people say Im good at drawing and stuff like that. and i hate to brag but i am

Lol, thats what i read before going to the second line.
Guidelines...i guess they can help a bit, but its all practice and patience.

juri_miki · 2004-01-21, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichi-Hane-Enjeru

people say Im good at drawing and stuff like that. and i hate to brag but i am
better than the average person. there is a problem tho. i havent improved much
of my art skills. i was wondering if learning to draw with guidelines help make it
better.

hmm: Umm...ok.... Nice way to start off asking for help.

Anyways, the best suggestion I have is to just keep on drawing. Go to museums, look up your art history. Find an artist you like. Pick up related books on the subject. (Not "How To" books though.) Also draw your family and friends and yourself, your environment and what's around you. That's the only way you're going to actually get better.

Raxial · 2004-01-21, 18:05

if you mean guidlines, like stick figure-ish things, than it depends on you. I visualize things better in smaller steps rather than the big picture, so I do the "bones", then fill in the details starting with basic shapes and gradually get more detailed. But whatever works for you. I'd like to see your stuff, if you have a scanner or whatever. It doesnt really have to be anime (unless I'm wrong)

eabandit · 2004-01-21, 20:20

so, are you going to post any of your art??

Tzurial · 2004-01-21, 20:29

If you think youre at a dead end- draw from life, not 'how to' books. It never gets boring and youll definately become better at expressing your art. If youre already good (like you say) then guidelines arent gonna help much. Those things are usually for beginners

Now show us your stuff

megazone23 · 2004-01-21, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tzurial

If you think youre at a dead end- draw from life, not 'how to' books. It never gets boring and youll definately become better at expressing your art. If youre already good (like you say) then guidelines arent gonna help much. Those things are usually for beginners

Now show us your stuff

I would agree. Books would only give you ideas (well, and sometimes 'proper' techniques for the author of the book) but... I would suggest drawing lots and each time, aim for perfection. Like, perfection in the sense that whatever idea or thought or image you had in your mind, bring it out and put it on paper. In general, for most people, it takes a long time to be completely satisfied with what you actually wanted, but with time, it'll improve. And find out what 'style' you like also. Whether it be anime or creative art. Anime, find out what type of people or things you like to draw and focus on that. Also, get suggestions and ideas from the general public, like, what comments they have and take it into consideration. There will be some boasting of how good it is. There will also be flames. Sift through all the recommendations and comments and take into consideration the useful ones the next time. Iono... just my two cents.

zillford · 2004-01-21, 22:09

while I don't know his work very well, I love to quote him on this:

"in a perfect world, we could draw whatever we wanted to without ever using guides. but when it comes to something you haven't drawn before, you're gonna be glad you used them"

-Fred Perry

this is only a paraphrasing, but I think you can get the point.

Guides are a great thing to learn. they help flesh out composition (a big flaw in many up and coming artists) as well as let you draw something you've never drawn before easier (odd perspective, action scenes, etc.).

also, another aspect (and one that goes DOUBLE for anime influenced artists such as myself and most folks here I'd guess) is that knowing and employing guidelines help make your pictures feel more '3D'. it gives a deeper sense of shape and form.

but composition is the killer aspect. if you don't have SOME sort of guides, I can almost assure you that you won't be able to consistantly do complex layouts. if you needed 3 characters in a fight, all somehow interacting with eachother, and you start by drawing one of their heads, you are in serious trouble. you'll get unatural poses, bad placement on the page, and you'll lose the looseness that having a guide will free you up to use.

now, guides don't have to be the typical stick figure you always see in tutorials. that's just a good place for anyone to start. when you get comfortable, you can learn where you need guides and where you don't. i.e. I usually do the typical oval-thing for a characters head, but then, depending on what I need out of the picture, I may just draw some sketchy lines in...

I'll often draw circle placeholders for hands before even starting on the arm, and I rarely use guides for my legs.

it can be really beneficial to watch really amazing artists work from a sketch up. see how they layout a picture, and where they take shortcuts. try to find a nearby convention, and find some kindly artist who will let you watch while they sketch. I know this has done WONDERS for me.

and finally, NEVER NEVER NEVER say how good your stuff is without showing it! in fact, it's best to just show it and let others comment from there. the more humble you are, the more people will like you, in my experience.

Splur · 2004-01-21, 22:20

'how to' books and tutorials = very bad.
i thought you meant guidelines as in those kind of things.
if you meant like plan the drawing first with light blue pencil then draw over and stuff...wow, it makes a huge difference. proportionally and everything else.
zill showed me the art of light blue.

zillford · 2004-01-21, 22:23

oops, just wanted to add one more thought:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ichi-Hane-Enjeru

...i am
better than the average person...

because I feel that no one is BORN an artist, your only comparison to 'average' is your lust for the creation, reception, and learning of art.

I bring this up because I've seen too many people who can draw a few things REALLY good (say, a cute schoolgirl with a giant gun) but they just see all the praise that their 'gimmick' gets them, and they rest on their artistic laurels. I hate seeing well rounded artists get passed over because they didn't want to merely appeal to pop-culture. so my judgement of an artist is not on how their work looks, but on their passion for the creation. asking on forums is a good start, but you should also explore art on your own. experiment, push yourself. never be satisfied with what you have, and never give up.

I only warn against braggadocio because it can give way to an artistic torper. and when your fans leave, you'll have nothing to show for it.

keep in mind, this is MERELY my oppinion.

zillford · 2004-01-21, 22:30

heh, do note, Splur, that I prolly use MORE guides on a whiteboard pic than I do on paper. also, I never have the luxury of blue lead when working on paper. I just press alot lighter :P

P.S.
didn't notice it on my first time through, but if you couldn't tell from my extensive post, I DISagree with Tzu that, "Guides are mostly for beginners". all of my favorite artists use some form of guidework. from painters to pixellers, composition is nigh impossible to get right in your head, first try.

I WOULD agree that the better you get, the fewer/simpler guides you use, but you should ALWAYS do the layout step of a picture.

geh, sorry I've talked so much about this... once I get started on art I can't slow down... just don't ask for my take on color theory, I'll go for HOURS.

juri_miki · 2004-01-22, 00:34

Reference is also a neat and handy thing to have as well.

Tzurial · 2004-01-22, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splur

'how to' books and tutorials = very bad.
i thought you meant guidelines as in those kind of things.
if you meant like plan the drawing first with light blue pencil then draw over and stuff...wow, it makes a huge difference. proportionally and everything else.
zill showed me the art of light blue.

eh heh heh..ill admit this is what I thought too..guides as in books. Sorry about that. Now guides as in an outline before a drawing? I do those obsessively they help so much. Blue pencils, tracing paper, and light tables are -amazing- tools. My designs are crap with out them

Raxial · 2004-01-22, 09:54

One of the handiest tools I have is a mirror

I use it for face, shoulders, arm muscles (the only muscles I can see really well

) and proportions. Also for angles and stuff, because I can just move a small mirror around anywhere.

I don't have the link with me (im at school), but this one website (or I should say directory) someone posted a while ago has thousands upon thousands of insanely good (beyond comparison to any of my "crap") drawings. It is probably the most valuable URL I have as far as guides and stuff, because you couldnt find a bigger source of examples in your entire life... seriously. I'll update this with the link when I get home, unless someone else puts it up. If you havent seen it, check it out.

2004-01-21, 17:34	Link #1
Ichi-Hane-Enjeru Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 37	do guidelines help? people say Im good at drawing and stuff like that. and i hate to brag but i am better than the average person. there is a problem tho. i havent improved much of my art skills. i was wondering if learning to draw with guidelines help make it better.

2004-01-21, 22:20	Link #9
Splur Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Canada... Age: 36	'how to' books and tutorials = very bad. i thought you meant guidelines as in those kind of things. if you meant like plan the drawing first with light blue pencil then draw over and stuff...wow, it makes a huge difference. proportionally and everything else. zill showed me the art of light blue. __________________

2004-01-21, 18:05	Link #4
Raxial CG / Color Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Eastern United States Age: 35	if you mean guidlines, like stick figure-ish things, than it depends on you. I visualize things better in smaller steps rather than the big picture, so I do the "bones", then fill in the details starting with basic shapes and gradually get more detailed. But whatever works for you. I'd like to see your stuff, if you have a scanner or whatever. It doesnt really have to be anime (unless I'm wrong)

2004-01-21, 20:20	Link #5
eabandit Member Join Date: Nov 2003	so, are you going to post any of your art??

2004-01-21, 20:29	Link #6
Tzurial in silent opposition Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: oh...I've been there	If you think youre at a dead end- draw from life, not 'how to' books. It never gets boring and youll definately become better at expressing your art. If youre already good (like you say) then guidelines arent gonna help much. Those things are usually for beginners Now show us your stuff

2004-01-21, 22:09	Link #8
zillford Wandering/Rambling Artist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a state of denial... denial Minnesota	while I don't know his work very well, I love to quote him on this: "in a perfect world, we could draw whatever we wanted to without ever using guides. but when it comes to something you haven't drawn before, you're gonna be glad you used them" -Fred Perry this is only a paraphrasing, but I think you can get the point. Guides are a great thing to learn. they help flesh out composition (a big flaw in many up and coming artists) as well as let you draw something you've never drawn before easier (odd perspective, action scenes, etc.). also, another aspect (and one that goes DOUBLE for anime influenced artists such as myself and most folks here I'd guess) is that knowing and employing guidelines help make your pictures feel more '3D'. it gives a deeper sense of shape and form. but composition is the killer aspect. if you don't have SOME sort of guides, I can almost assure you that you won't be able to consistantly do complex layouts. if you needed 3 characters in a fight, all somehow interacting with eachother, and you start by drawing one of their heads, you are in serious trouble. you'll get unatural poses, bad placement on the page, and you'll lose the looseness that having a guide will free you up to use. now, guides don't have to be the typical stick figure you always see in tutorials. that's just a good place for anyone to start. when you get comfortable, you can learn where you need guides and where you don't. i.e. I usually do the typical oval-thing for a characters head, but then, depending on what I need out of the picture, I may just draw some sketchy lines in... I'll often draw circle placeholders for hands before even starting on the arm, and I rarely use guides for my legs. it can be really beneficial to watch really amazing artists work from a sketch up. see how they layout a picture, and where they take shortcuts. try to find a nearby convention, and find some kindly artist who will let you watch while they sketch. I know this has done WONDERS for me. and finally, NEVER NEVER NEVER say how good your stuff is without showing it! in fact, it's best to just show it and let others comment from there. the more humble you are, the more people will like you, in my experience.

2004-01-21, 22:30	Link #11
zillford Wandering/Rambling Artist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a state of denial... denial Minnesota	heh, do note, Splur, that I prolly use MORE guides on a whiteboard pic than I do on paper. also, I never have the luxury of blue lead when working on paper. I just press alot lighter :P P.S. didn't notice it on my first time through, but if you couldn't tell from my extensive post, I DISagree with Tzu that, "Guides are mostly for beginners". all of my favorite artists use some form of guidework. from painters to pixellers, composition is nigh impossible to get right in your head, first try. I WOULD agree that the better you get, the fewer/simpler guides you use, but you should ALWAYS do the layout step of a picture. geh, sorry I've talked so much about this... once I get started on art I can't slow down... just don't ask for my take on color theory, I'll go for HOURS.

2004-01-22, 00:34	Link #12
juri_miki Death Note Fanatic Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: NY	Reference is also a neat and handy thing to have as well.

2004-01-22, 09:54	Link #14
Raxial CG / Color Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Eastern United States Age: 35	One of the handiest tools I have is a mirror I use it for face, shoulders, arm muscles (the only muscles I can see really well ) and proportions. Also for angles and stuff, because I can just move a small mirror around anywhere. I don't have the link with me (im at school), but this one website (or I should say directory) someone posted a while ago has thousands upon thousands of insanely good (beyond comparison to any of my "crap") drawings. It is probably the most valuable URL I have as far as guides and stuff, because you couldnt find a bigger source of examples in your entire life... seriously. I'll update this with the link when I get home, unless someone else puts it up. If you havent seen it, check it out.