2012-11-28, 00:51 | Link #1741 | |||||||||||||||
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Really, the Tigers and Panthers were okay tanks, built with an emphasis for killing other tanks, but they all had major flaws. I wouldn't compare them directly for the most part because they were designed for different roles. Quote:
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If they had led with a single Pz. III, then it's the only unit risked, and their flag would have been safe. Quote:
I don't think anyone disputes that. However, Miho jumping into the river isn't the only thing that happened in that flashback.
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2012-11-28, 00:55 | Link #1742 | |
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People, the choice of movement along that path is not what the anime seems to be saying is in question. What's in contention is whether or not she should have chosen to lose the game in order to save her teamates' lives, and unless there is something very screwed up with the way you think, the answer is ABSOLUTELY. |
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2012-11-28, 00:56 | Link #1743 | ||
Meister
Join Date: Jul 2010
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10 consecutive wins or people's lives, seems like we have the same opinion that teammates' lives is more than winning the game. Next week, is what I will call, Boss time! Pravda vs Ooarai.... Wait a second... Isn't Pravda the one who defeated Black Forest last year?
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2012-11-28, 01:04 | Link #1744 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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You brought up real life issue first. I believe you are vastly exaggerating Panther's problem as there are so many people who argues for Panther being the best overall tank in World War 2, and they can back up that claim by all the kills Panther scored.
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2012-11-28, 01:07 | Link #1745 |
Banned
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Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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Cost is not really an issue within the context of Senshado.
@ Miho Issue: She did not do her duty, simple as that. Saying "get to cover" to her tank then jumping off would have done quite a bit, but in her panic or whatever she neglected that simple duty. There is no excuse for that. |
2012-11-28, 01:09 | Link #1746 | ||
El Psy Congroo
Join Date: Aug 2009
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For all we know there could had been foul play for that match... someone may have tipped off the Pravada for the possible routes to be taken by the Black Forest... it's possible that that route had been scouted earlier so Miho took it but because of leaked information then that accident occurred... well, it's just me having a conspiracy theory moments... Quote:
Well, as far as I'm concerned, Miho did a split-second decision to save her comrades... it'll take only seconds for the tank to sink to the bottom of the sea for crying out loud... Miho did the right thing...
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2012-11-28, 01:09 | Link #1747 |
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well to be fair , Miho obviously made her choice there and then. Saving the drowning tank crew is also a split second decision.It's not as if that tank in the water would wait for her to finish her commands to her crew before sinking. Besides I don't really see much difference with her on or off the tank at that moment, aside from morale issues. They are clearly, already in a disadvantaged position only thing left would be to fire back, which the other tank crews could have done by themselves. if it's a matter of firing direction, another could have covered the commander position (looking out the turret) like the radio operator. Aside from that the other tank was already moving to front to cover them, but it was too late.
as been said before this is not war, this is Senshado, Miho thought then the life of her team mates is more important than another win. I definitely agree with Yukarin she made the right choice. Abandoning the tank is probably the only fault Miho did there, but it is still the right choice IMO. IF this is WAR then it would be different since she has to take into account the other lives at stake, that of her tank crew and platoon crew if they got wiped out by her decision to leave the tank. This would be a court-martial offense. oops lots of posts... |
2012-11-28, 01:10 | Link #1748 | |
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Last edited by wontaek; 2012-11-28 at 01:22. |
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2012-11-28, 01:13 | Link #1749 | |
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I am glad I can never play a game with you, since you clearly consider losing a game to be a worse offense than letting people die. |
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2012-11-28, 01:25 | Link #1750 | |||
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Furthermore, as someone who has been in life-threatening situations several times, I might have less tolerance for people in a position of responsibility for not doing their duty while also doing the right thing. To me those two go hand in hand. |
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2012-11-28, 01:32 | Link #1751 | |||||
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Miho ceases to be a commander as soon as someone's life is in danger.
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2012-11-28, 01:33 | Link #1752 | |
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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I'm speaking in the context of non-war situations. Of which Senshadou is one
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2012-11-28, 01:35 | Link #1753 |
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The problem is that you're judging this duty to have much higher significance than it really does. This is not a military command. There are no lives at stake if she leaves her tank, no one will suffer, there is no actual harm done. In that situation saving lives overrides trivial matters like playing a game. As such, by leaving the tank to save those people, Miho WAS doing her duty. Dropping things that don't matter in order to save people is the duty of anyone in that situation. She did not fail her duty: she fulfilled it, the way everyone there should have. If anyone failed, if anyone deserves condemnation, it would be the ones who stayed in their tanks and played a game while people were dying nearby.
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2012-11-28, 01:45 | Link #1754 |
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Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
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I believe I'm sensing a great difference between myself and the majority of the posters here. I ultimately see no difference in Miho's duty to at least say "retreat" when she was in the position to be saying so and her duty in rescuing her kameradinen. Those two are NOT exclusive, and as someone who has been brought up in a military household, to think those are exclusive is the basic denial of what the Way is supposed to be. There are times when one cannot do their duty for the right thing, but those are exceptions to the standard, and Miho's situation was not where she had to forsake her duty for the right thing.
If we operate under the idea that Senshado is a martial art, then the idea that this is all just a game is in itself a corruption of what Senshado is. A true martial art puts duty on the same level as honor, and Miho not doing what she should be doing when she was able to do so was neglecting her duty. Shiho might have been extreme in her interpretation (or perhaps that is what the Nishizumi-ryu is like in general), but the basics of what she says is correct: One must advance, and this means one must do one's duty. |
2012-11-28, 01:45 | Link #1755 | |
El Psy Congroo
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Well said my friend... as had been pointed out many times before, this is Senshadou and this is not war... Miho had the clear mind when she made that decision... it's clear to her that this is just competition and people's lives weighs more... if that was real war then it's another story... @Sumeragi Then Kay's decision to take the same number of tanks to go after Oarai failed her as commander because she just toss away her overwhelming advantage in number and firepower and not to mention winning the battle... I'd say Kay just wants to play fair in the Senshadou...
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2012-11-28, 01:46 | Link #1756 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Not that it'd really change anything, but they were fish in a barrel anyway. Victory wasn't exactly on the table anymore. |
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2012-11-28, 01:50 | Link #1757 | |
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2012-11-28, 01:52 | Link #1758 |
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ok...ok...let's chill a bit....
how about if we switch to a lighter topic.... ehem.... among all ooarai girl, if you were given a chance to meet IRL to go and play or chat or whatever for a day (longer maybe) (3 choice) who would you pick...? for me...no.1 yukari (of course!!), no.2 miho and no.3 hana who do you pick...? |
2012-11-28, 01:53 | Link #1759 | ||
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2012-11-28, 01:53 | Link #1760 | ||
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(1) It takes long time to destroy 9 t-34s. If Panther broke down as fast as you suggest, no way such a stat could have been accumulated. (2) Now, what were the tanks Oorai fought against, and what tanks are they fighting next? Now, brushing aside what I still view as exaggeration of Panther's fault, would Oorai be better served with Tiger I compared to Panther? I would say yes, but not because of reliability issue. Oorai's mechanics were able to fix the tanks that were in ruins for many years in a day, so I would say the mechanics are top notch. These girls have won 2 rounds, thus you can't consider them inexperienced any more. As I kept saying, any problem due to wear and tear isn't a issue since they can refit the tank every day with new parts, which is likely best parts ever made for the tanks. The real reason I think Tiger I would help Oorai just a little more in most situation is because it is superior to Panther in 2 areas Oorai lacks the most : Armor and Fire power. With Tiger I, you can now use much more aggressive offensive tactics, where you would be thinking about how to charge into the battle instead of how to withdraw to new defensive position. Still, I think you have to consider the tactical style. Since I believe Panther's steering, transmission, and Final Drive will endure through one whole Senshado match, Panther would let you use your mobile defensive tactics much better than Tiger. If you care not about protecting your teammates, for Oorai, fighting a mobile engagements in short burst is much more preferable, since their tanks just can't last long once your opponent T-34s or Tigers ( Kuromori High ) starts shooting at you in group. Your best chance is to either isolate one or two tanks to achieve local superiority and run away when other tanks come to the scene, or somehow surprise them and get a few shots off at them and then run away before your opponent can focus their fire on one of your tanks. For these hit and run tactics, you need speed and Panther is faster and also have longer operational range compared to Tiger I.
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comedy, gup, original anime, slice of life, sports, tanks |
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