Why can't we keep commenting?

[Elepsis]

Lately in this forum, I've noticed a lot of threads getting closed with rather questionable reasons like "Enough has been said on this subject for now." Why? If the rules aren't being violated, why can't we keep discussing any given topic?

I, for one, wanted to see the replies to LordBrian's question of "Out of idle curiosity, how many episodes from any given group do you have to see before you can pass judgment on said group?" in the AJ website thread. It raised an interesting point, but before any discussion could take place the thread was locked. And this has been happening repeatedly on this forum.

If a fansub group officially closes, does that mean we must stop talking about it and the thread should be locked? I'm really failing to see the logic here.

[Iron Monkey]

I think it's a little different with AJ. For one reason or another, any thread which deals with AJ always eventually degenerates into a AJ bashing thread. I think most people just love to jump on the AJ bashing wagon for no reason other than to look good with their peers, and make themselves feel good. It seems to me like they think it's stylish to bash them till no end. Which is pretty sad, IMO.

[JOJOS'STAR]

Animesuki is "politicaly correct" while AJ are some kind of anime "Hackers" if I may(keep releasing some anime after they get liscenced) So.. Yes its sad cause both animesuki and AJ are doing it for the love of anime and Otakus .. but that just the way it is.

[SimplyEd]

Originally Posted by JOJOS'STAR

Animesuki is "politicaly correct" while AJ are some kind of anime "Hackers" if I may(keep releasing some anime after they get liscenced) So.. Yes its sad cause both animesuki and AJ are doing it for the love of anime and Otakus .. but that just the way it is.

If i remember correctly it was xris who came up with the statement that the line of arguments went in circles from there on out..and he was correct. You have to be aware of the fact that there are people out there in the forums that hate AJ around 100%. Then there are people that love AJ because they were fast,did a decent job ( later they were really good), and they had a total episode count of over 700. Then there are people who simply tolerate AJ and take an almost neutral position because they can see the truth on both extremes.
The problem is, that these are settled hardliner convictions, if they were given a chance a certain arguement would never find its end, it would go round and round until either side dies of old age^^

[Elepsis]

You people are missing my point. The AJ thread is just an example -- this has happened on several other threads recently, like the ^_^ thread for instance. And I don't really see why.

[DekaMaster]

Originally Posted by Elepsis

You people are missing my point. The AJ thread is just an example -- this has happened on several other threads recently, like the ^_^ thread for instance. And I don't really see why.

What it comes down to is very simple,these are their boards. They can close or open or delete any thread they chose with no reason. Some threads need to be closed like the ones like "Which groups is better" or "everyone use good fonts" but some could stay open.

[MercuryKnight]

Originally Posted by KingRanger

What it comes down to is very simple,these are their boards. They can close or open or delete any thread they chose with no reason. Some threads need to be closed like the ones like "Which groups is better" or "everyone use good fonts" but some could stay open.

I agree totally, but I have noticed that when they do close a thread they usually give a pretty good reason for doing so.
Someone has to bring sanity to the chaos .
PS. This thread's probably not long for this world either.

[xris]

Originally Posted by Elepsis

Lately in this forum, I've noticed a lot of threads getting closed with rather questionable reasons like "Enough has been said on this subject for now." Why? If the rules aren't being violated, why can't we keep discussing any given topic?

The reply SimplyEd gave sums it up I believe. We've had numerous threads centred around similar issues and they invariably lead to these sort of minor flame wars between the Pro-AJers and the Anti-AJers.

One of the problems with on-line forums is that some people believe that they have the right to freedom of speech. This is not true in most cases, the forums are in fact private and to join you have to agree to become a member and abide by their rules. Just because registration to the forum is free doesn't mean that you have total freedom over what you can and can't do. During registration to AnimeSuki you receive a message which includes the comment "The owners of AnimeSuki Forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason".

Now you may or may not like this but that's the way it works. We do not like flame wars starting and we prefer to close threads which look like no agreement is going to be reached when two sides start arguing.

Originally Posted by Elepsis

I, for one, wanted to see the replies to LordBrian's question of "Out of idle curiosity, how many episodes from any given group do you have to see before you can pass judgment on said group?" in the AJ website thread. It raised an interesting point, but before any discussion could take place the thread was locked. And this has been happening repeatedly on this forum.

That wasn't the reason the thread was closed and I think it was quite clear it wasn't the reason. Unfortunately the new question happened to be asked just before the thread was closed so obviously the issues it raised could no longer be discussed. BUT, if you feel it was worthy of discussion, then you could always start a new thread (you may want to check with a Mod first before starting a thread if you are not sure of the exact reasons why a thread was closed in the first place) and continue where it left off.

I would have no issues if a new thread was created and this question was asked again. As long as it doesn't lead to the same problems the original thread was closed for, then it would be fine. The only thing I would ask is that it was phrased in such a way as to not immediately attack the person who made the comment in the first place. But as long as it remains a discussion then the thread will more likely remain open.

Originally Posted by Elepsis

If a fansub group officially closes, does that mean we must stop talking about it and the thread should be locked? I'm really failing to see the logic here.

What makes you think that if a fansub group closes (or pauses for restructuring in AJ's case) that you are not allowed to talk about it? Where was it implied that a thread would be closed if anyone discussed this. The thread was closed for very different reasons so please don't make 1 + 1 = 3. If you wanted to find out why a thread was closed and you didn't understand the reason, then you could PM the Mod and ask. In the case in question, I didn't give an explanation, partly because it's happened so many times on AnimeSuki, and I get a bit tired of making the same comments over and over again.

[NeverRamza]

I'm sure anyone could throw a textbook's worth of reasoning at me for why this site is the way it is but I agree that threads should get locked a whole lot less. Forums are a lot more fun when they're not so heavily moderated.

[DrWho2002]

They're also a lot more out of control and full of unwanted flaming wars and insults/jabs/useless frivolity/rampant profanity when they're not.

[Iron Monkey]

Originally Posted by DrWho2002

They're also a lot more out of control and full of unwanted flaming wars and insults/jabs/useless frivolity/rampant profanity when they're not.

I'll say. For an example of that, remember when anime.mircx had those forums? They were unmoderated, and boy did it ever get out of hand in there. Each thread degenerated into nothing more than flamewars and spam posts. I think with a forum in general, you have to take the good with the bad. I think animesuki's forums are actually moderated quite well. Yes, sometimes mods can be strict, but I think this is the only way to stop some people from posting useless threads or spam. I mean, lets face it. There are people who's sole purpose it seems is to spam and annoy.

[Elepsis]

Having moderated a rather large number of forums in my lifetime, both for companies and as a fan, I have no illusions of any right to free speech on a private forum. I assumed that a thread of this type would either be tolerated, locked, or removed, depending on forum policy, so I went ahead and posted it.

While whether you give me the right to voice my opinion on your moderating decisions is solely up to you, forming that opinion (and commenting on it elsewhere if I wish) is a right I do have. I appreciate being able to do it here, where it's actually most likely to be useful, however.

That said, in my opinion it's a bit too trigger-happy to lock threads when they look like they "might" degenerate into flame wars. It's one thing to lock a thread when the personal insults start flying, and another to lock it because the topic tends to be controversial. Controversial topics also happen to be some of the most interesting ones much of the time -- I simply wish you'd take the chance that the discussion will be kept on a semi-mature level at least some of the time (not that I've seen it happen much with this forum's population...)

[scotty81]

there are many reasons I can understand why threads are closed. here are a few ( this is not exhaustive ).
When a thread is about ones opinion, everybody simply starts giving there own, sometimes without probably reading what was said before, that may be due to threads getting too long ( that's another problem ) .
Now when threads start having a clever argue ( not a monty python "Yes I did" "No you didn't" argue ), it's a good thing to try keeping it open but closing it is safety, especially if the forum admins can be held responsible for what is said on the forum ( I think that's the case in France ).
And , without willing to offend anyone, how can people from 10 years old to 50+ have a intelligent talk all together, it's a nearly impossible thing. maybe one day...

[LordBrian]

Are you suggesting that rather than close threads that could potentially become flame wars, the mods should ban everyone not from a certain age group? Because by your logic, as it stands, there is not one thread (well, nearly) on the forums that can lead to intelligent discussion -- an argument I don't agree with.

[complich8]

I think the idea elepsis is trying to purvey is .... right now it kind of seems like whenever a thread looks like it might degenerate into an endless argument or a flame war or anything, the thread gets locked. Rather than giving the thread a chance to go its own way first, they are snuffed out before they could potentially go bad.

It's the difference between aphorisms like franklin's "a stitch in time..." and the famous "better to remain silent and be thought a fool..." and a certain level of necessary but usually unwarranted faith in humankind.

In other words, the argument is whether to give people the benefit of the doubt or not, and elepsis's statement is that the wholehearted answer here seems to be "no".

I am not sure where I stand on evaluating animesuki's forum moderation in general, but I can agree on a philosophical level with the point being made ... I'd rather err on the side of letting conversations go, but either way to go is pretty easy to justify.

I'd rather personally see consistently bad posters (flamers,trolls) banned and flame/troll/etc posts deleted than see discussion itself prevented. But it's easier to stop 'dangerous' threads than stop the posters in them -- a new ip and a new userid and the poster's ready to go again, and even difficult or impossible to link to the old banned poster.

[scotty81]

Originally Posted by LordBrian

Are you suggesting that rather than close threads that could potentially become flame wars, the mods should ban everyone not from a certain age group? Because by your logic, as it stands, there is not one thread (well, nearly) on the forums that can lead to intelligent discussion -- an argument I don't agree with.

I'm not saying everybody should be banned, just that you can't expect everybody to have the same attitude towards a thread or another. It's not with the age, it's a fact some people enjoy flaming, some enjoy spamming, some enjoy saying nothing...
and you can't stop them from coming. so you have to find a way to keep the forum in order for the most people. and I guess closing a thread is the easiest way to keep order in a forum. ( You have to admit people tend to disbehave more on the net than in the "real" life )

[LordBrian]

Originally Posted by scotty81

I'm not saying everybody should be banned, just that you can't expect everybody to have the same attitude towards a thread or another.

Correct. That's what makes the controversial subjects the more interesting ones. If everyone agreed, the whole forum would be full of "me too" posts, which obviously isn't very interesting.

Originally Posted by scotty81

It's not with the age, it's a fact some people enjoy flaming, some enjoy spamming

Again, correct. Which is why I believe it is these people who should be punished, not the people who want to continue an interesting discussion.

To go off on a related tangent (and no offense meant with the following), I think that moderators should take the title "moderator" more literally, and actually moderate the subjects that need it. That goes well beyond closing a thread that looks iffy, or deleting/editing a post that obviously breaks the forum rules. They could direct the flow of the conversation in ways that would allow discussion to continue, while steering clear of subjects that would normally get a thread locked. Rename the thread if necessary, it doesn't matter. Despite what some people would have you believe, long threads are not a bad thing -- they are indicative of a strong and interesting discussion, one that people have felt the need to contribute to time and again.

Yes, this will of course be more difficult than just locking a thread and saying "make a new one if you wanna continue" and washing your hands of it. But in the long run, I think discussions will benefit from something like this, and the frustration people get from seeing so many needlessly locked threads will drop dramatically.

And now I wait for this thread to be locked. ;)

[Fate]

Although I hate to say this, but closing threads are important, and are essentually important for the well-being of the forum and of the members.

This is especially true with threads that become a bashing contest. At one point, the the arguments of bashers begin to degenerate and goes about in circles; hence, the thread becomes filled with useless posts. Statistically, there are more bashers then defenders in any forum (unless the defenders are also bashers, complicating things), while the neutral rarely comments, take both positions, post off topic, etc.

There seems to be many people finding a way to take out their stress, and to avoid this negative directment of energy, threads must be closed. This is not a gesture to cool off members, but rather to simply "shutdown" the battle, particularly if it involves anyone from the anime community heavily contributing(whether by money, bandwidth, uploads, yielding more anime fans, etc.), yet being the most hurt from all this "fun" talks.

[LBW]

Even bad publicity is publicity.


There are a lot of people constantly talking bad about AJ, but they were one of the most popular groups just because people kept going on about them. Just let them rest in peace. x)

[OutPhase]

I'm 100% sure that this is the wrong forum for this question. Take it to the complaints part of the web board.