[Manga] Who is Tobi?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

My personal favourite for Tobi's role is either Uchiha Izuna (and i have already wrote in other posts how the most facts in the manga so far supporting this), or it could be an Uzumaki or Senju since everybody expects Tobi to be an Uchiha. Tobi being Izuna would be the most logical and also we could finally see his character (also there would be someone related to the real Madara in the current world where there really isn't anyone closely related to Madara). Tobi not being an Uchiha would be the most interesting, since almost everybody expects him to be an Uchiha.

believe it or not i totally agree with this. i think having izuna in the story would be very cool. there are a couple things that need to make more sense though like tobi's words resonating with kakashi so strongly. that makes me think that there is at least a little more obito in there than just his eye. would kakashi react so strongly if it was izuna using obito's eye? maybe, but tobi's words were pretty nail on the head for kakashi's psyche. and i just dont see izuna caring about kakashi like this.

also, madara himself says izuna is dead and essentially meaningless aside from his eyes. that could just be a minor plothole since he had no reason to lie to the kages.

and tobi told konan he was madara with no reason to lie which again could just be a minor plothole.

so yea, i could see tobi being part obito part izuna just like i think he is part obito part madara

him being a senju would be interesting as well. maybe a senju actually named tobi? to me right now, the only other reason for tobi's name aside from obito switching his name, would be a character actually named tobi. any other reason would be silly to me, like naming himself after the eye he took? why would he do that?

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

I guess we all have our preference of which character we would like to see in the story, and then we try to gather all evidence that supports that and forget all that is against it.

what evidence about other characters am i ignoring exactly? if you mean kagami, then there really isn't anything worthwhile there

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

what evidence about other characters am i ignoring exactly? if you mean kagami, then there really isn't anything worthwhile there

I meant that whatever character we want Tobi to be there will be at least one fact that contradicts our theory
Even if Izuna has the most facts to be true but it has at least one against.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

and tobi told konan he was madara with no reason to lie which again could just be a minor plothole.

That's the one thing that just doesn't ring true. Why would he NOT have a reason to lie? The name "Madara" holds power. Besides, he basically took his identity after the real one died, so I think, for all intents and purposes, he considered himself to be Madara.

How's that for "no reason to lie"?

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

him being a senju would be interesting as well. maybe a senju actually named tobi? to me right now, the only other reason for tobi's name aside from obito switching his name, would be a character actually named tobi. any other reason would be silly to me, like naming himself after the eye he took? why would he do that?

Does his name really need to have any significance? Tobi is what he named himself when he was masquerading as Zetsu's subordinate. That name quickly disappeared after his identity as Madara was revealed, and after it was DISrevealed, he simply became "The masked guy".

[Mateus]

Originally Posted by Dengar

That's the one thing that just doesn't ring true. Why would he NOT have a reason to lie? The name "Madara" holds power. Besides, he basically took his identity after the real one died, so I think, for all intents and purposes, he considered himself to be Madara.

How's that for "no reason to lie"?




Does his name really need to have any significance? Tobi is what he named himself when he was masquerading as Zetsu's subordinate.

I always assumed this line was meant like a title, like how every ruling Mandalorian in Star Wars becomes "Mandalore" when the previous one is killed. Plus I don't think Konan and Nagato had any definitive proof that Tobi wasn't/ the real Madara wasn't dead so there was no reason to not believe him.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Dengar

That's the one thing that just doesn't ring true. Why would he NOT have a reason to lie? The name "Madara" holds power. Besides, he basically took his identity after the real one died, so I think, for all intents and purposes, he considered himself to be Madara.

How's that for "no reason to lie"?

Because he doesn't consider himself to be Madara, he thinks that his real identity is irrelevant, that he is no one. Blabling about being Madara to Konan whom he intended to murder 60 seconds later was completely useless but it's not the worst example of that : he also said to Kabuto that the Rinnegan were his eyes to begin with and that he stole DNA from Hashirama after Kabuto summoned Edo-Madara when they both knew he wasn't who he claimed to be.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

he also said to Kabuto that the Rinnegan were his eyes to begin with and that he stole DNA from Hashirama after Kabuto summoned Edo-Madara when they both knew he wasn't who he claimed to be.

It makes sense if he was once known as Izuna, those eyes were originally not Madara's Then the part of stoling DNA, who knows maybe he and Madara worked together on that.

[Hunter]

Yes I know but then his latest rant against Kakashi makes no sense because Izuna has no reason whatsoever to know, comment and care about his life.
Look, I'd rather see that Naruto's Rasengan completely disfigure Tobi and that he died remaining no one than him being Obito but let's not kid ourselves.
Kishimoto always goes for the obvious, he just doesn't throw curveball, and the obvious is sadly Tobito.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Yes I know but then his latest rant against Kakashi makes no sense because Izuna has no reason whatsoever to know, comment and care about his life.
Look, I'd rather see that Naruto's Rasengan completely disfigure Tobi and that he died remaining no one than him being Obito but let's not kid ourselves.
Kishimoto always goes for the obvious, he just doesn't throw curveball, and the obvious is sadly Tobito.

It seems he's been watching Konoha's development from the shadows. After all, Tobi knows facts about Kakashi from after Obito died. So what he knows about Kakashi has no bearing on whether or not he is Obito.

[Hunter]

That's circular logic Dengar, remove the "fact" that Obito died and then of course it has bearing to who he truly is because there is no other character with vested interest in Kakashi's life, promise and grief.
I mean other than wild and crazy theories about Tobi being the mix of personalities of dead ninjas or even the incarnation of hate from past Uchiha but let's be honest those may be entertaining but they have virtually no chance to turn out to be correct.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Kishimoto always goes for the obvious, he just doesn't throw curveball, and the obvious is sadly Tobito.

Well this doesn't sound promising, since it comes from someone who knows every detail about the manga.

Fortunately i don't remember if all of Kishimoto's choices were so obvious until now, so until it's revealed i can still hope

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Hunter

That's circular logic Dengar, remove the "fact" that Obito died and then of course it has bearing to who he truly is because there is no other character with vested interest in Kakashi's life, promise and grief.

I lol'd.


That WAS a joke, right?

[Hunter]

You're welcome, I am always happy to spread joy and laughter all around me.
Once you've managed to catch your breath would you mind to provide us the list of this multitude of characters so deeply invested in Kakashi's past?

[Dengar]

You're saying only one person has known Kakashi ever? My, such a lonely life he must have lived.

[milan kyuubi]

Tobi has all kinda info. Considering he knows so much. I wouldn't be surprised if he found out about Kakashi as well. Seeing how Kakashi's past wasn't some big secret.

[Ero-Senn1n]

But why would Tobi be more connected to Kakashi than Naruto or Sasuke? Why is kakashi so much in the spotlight that even the main evil boss is connected to him and not the main characters? Tobi being Obito the Kakashi Gaiden would suddenly become one of the most important parts of the story instead of just explaining how Kakashi got his eye and his view of the world. Sure Kakashi is an important character, but should he be such a central character? I think this is the question, and the answer might be yes if we think of Tobi's ideology to be the opposite of Kakashi's. That would make Sasuke Tobi's sensei and Kakashi Naruto's, so that when Sasuke and Naruto clash we have opposite views of the world clashing. Kakashi even if not a main character, but being the one who had the most influence on Naruto, so then Tobi being connected to Kakashi in such a way would make sense.

But my main concern is that it would be repetitive having a good guy who had such a strong influence on the hero turned bad. We had Nagato, the one who inspired Jiraiya and in turn Naruto. Now we would have the young Obito who inspired Kakashi to become a hero but he himself turned bad. Also a young guy being influenced by an evil old guy's ideology: Tobi->Nagato and now it would be Madara->Obito. This is why i don't like the idea of Obito being another Nagato. But maybe somone can explain how this can be different than that.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Dengar

You're saying only one person has known Kakashi ever? My, such a lonely life he must have lived.

that is clearly not what he is saying. you're just dodging since you can't offer another suggestion aside from perhaps rin which is problematic on many other levels

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Tobi has all kinda info. Considering he knows so much. I wouldn't be surprised if he found out about Kakashi as well. Seeing how Kakashi's past wasn't some big secret.

the point isn't that anyone could have that knowledge of kakashi, the point is that tobi cares about it and is touching on deep emotional connections to kakashi. someone of izuna's stature wouldn't care enough to do that. he wouldn't be able to say such meaningful things. kakashi would simply be beneath him and not worth talking to

edit: @Ero-Senn1n: pain was once the main villain and he was mostly connected to jiraiya who is a lesser MC than kakashi. now we have progressed to tobi who is still not the main villain, but the main villain now, and he is connected to kakashi (who is btw a main character of naruto, he's just been forgotten for a long time. obviously nobody is bigger than naruto and sasuke, but kakashi is on that next teir if you were to rank them). so it all follows a pattern actually. and then orochimaru and sasuke will be the next main villains with ties to basically everyone, but mostly naruto.

once kakashi randomly arrived at this fight, the connection between him and tobi was sealed

[milan kyuubi]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

the point is that tobi cares about it and is touching on deep emotional connections to kakashi.

Or he could just be using psychological attack on Kakashi. Tobi has shown to be very smart, manipulating and very skilled at deceptions. I wouldn't put it against him, if he is using his knowledge of Kakashi past to neutralize him in this fight. It would be much easier for Tobi to capture Naruto, if Kakashi wasn't there.

That's just my opinion.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Dengar

You're saying only one person has known Kakashi ever? My, such a lonely life he must have lived.

I have asked you a simple question which you prove unable to answer so let me make this even easier for you : give me a single name which fit the points I mentioned.

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

Tobi has all kinda info. Considering he knows so much. I wouldn't be surprised if he found out about Kakashi as well. Seeing how Kakashi's past wasn't some big secret.

Knowledge isn't the issue, the fact that he cares enough to mention and be pissed about it however very much is.

Look let's not be coy and pretend I expect Dengar to answer anything but a one liner supposed to be witty to avoid answering a question he has no answer to. There have been over the years many characters people thought might be Tobi : Obito and its countless variations (even his dad!), Madara, Danzou, Yamato, Zetsu clone, Oro clone, Izuna, Kagami, Rikudou and both his sons, Shisui, Setsuna, the Juubi, Sasuke and evil Naruto from the future/another dimension, Rin, the rock nin who "killed" Obito, some random unknown Uchiha/Senju/Uzumaki, the ramen guy, etc.

Who among them -no scratch that. Who among all the characters ever introduced in this show has any reason to make an angry rant at Kakashi about his failed promise that make him a failure of a hero?
I'm all hears really, it's not as if I like the Obito theory : I find it stupid and boring and I'd rather have almost anything else including not ever knowing who Tobi truly was. But I'm also not in denial and I can read the writting on the wall, particularly when it's written in huge all caps neon signs.

[milan kyuubi]

I am not trying to be witty or anything Hunter. Personally I have no idea who Tobi can be. All I am saying is as I said in my post above. That Tobi is maybe simple using his knowledge. Which he can express trough anger just to mess with Kakashi up. He has shown to be very manipulating and deceptive.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by milan kyuubi

He has shown to be very manipulating and deceptive.

That's definitely true, we saw him in action when he manipulated Sasuke, he did the same with Kisame who even died for Tobi's war. Itachi who was very smart and usually manipulated others was also his victim, he played the role of Madara very well. We don't know how he dealt with Nagato but he succeeded. And recently we learned that he doesn't follow Madara's orders, it seems he tricked Madara too. So i wouldn't be surprised if he manipulated Kakashi to think he is Obito. So even if in the next chapter we see his face is Obito's i still would suspect that he just morphed the Zetsu-goo into an Obito face. Also that would be Kishimoto's Greatest Trolling