AnimeSuki Forums

brightman · 2004-01-22, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keitarou20

I usually check animenfo.com for how many episodes a series im watching has but the # of episodes info wasn't available for this particular series.

It's been here: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...me.php?id=2655 ever since I submitted it to that site in October...

Keitaro · 2004-01-22, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightman

It's been here: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...me.php?id=2655 ever since I submitted it to that site in October...

Oh well, kind of too late now.

Ori · 2004-01-22, 12:19

Did Layla just died at the end? With that special cross with her necklace on it?

Breogan · 2004-01-22, 17:49

Nah, she just threw it away. If you notice, she's holding it in her hand in the previous scene.

vio5555 · 2004-01-22, 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breogan

Nah, she just threw it away. If you notice, she's holding it in her hand in the previous scene.

At the very end ya, she just walks off having left the chain on the cross.

BTW, the ending really was horrible, so inconclusive.

mirichan · 2004-01-22, 18:12

And is it just me, or not only did the ending sucked to high heaven, did not answer ANY questions and Layla also has the weirdest laugh you've ever heard? It sounded insane, to tell you the truth!

Oh well... that was quite a waste of my time, watching that show! I should have stuck to my first impression (and second and third) and flush that show after the first few episodes...

SilverLeafTree · 2004-01-22, 18:16

Err... SPOILERS but that's already marked in the topic heading...

I liked that last episode personally on a technical basis except for on a few points... For some reason when Volg's headgear was cracked the depiction of his face was kind of inconsistent. Also, they sure did reuse the cells of Nei lying down and breathing a lot. Besides that, I can finally get a translation of those Avenger songs ^_^, I thought the music was well done as well as the fighting scene's action. Now onto the explanation...

Volg is the protector of Mars; yet the same time he is protecting Mars from disorder with his iron rule, he is unable to move forward and bring better days for the people of Mars. We can see this as Layla lays the first real blow to Volg's body, water begins springing out of the ground(water is necessary for life, the people on Mars have been doing very badly without water [e.g. the cultivation of plants would be near-impossible as seen by Cross' attempts]). The more Volg is beat, the more life-giving water comes out of the ground. Volg soon realizes that he is the cause of the misfortune of the people of Mars and jumps over the cliff into the water. Westa-sama seems to understand this as well as she says "I'm sure the planet will accept our [Volg's in particular] corpses in order to create a better world for the people of Mars."

It is also this water that washes away Volg's looming skyscraper down along with some broken dolls. Note how nothing else is really destroyed by the water except for Volg's city; the other city on the mesa as well as the battleground is untouched by these benevolent tides.

On a different, more scientific level, the last episode has meaning as well. We can infer that the water's spouting came from the red moon's gravitational pull upon Mars, causing the water to come out. The phrase "this wasn't how it was planned" implies that the people on Mars had some kind of plan to avoid the impending disaster from a possible collission. They also tried alter the moon's course by detonating bombs on it (they had to be very big since you could see them even from mars). Perhaps this was all in vain; maybe the red moon's original purpose was to pull water from the ground and its course would not be altered.

Layla Ashley's main motive was to protect Nei, not kill Volg or save Mars (When Volg asks her "why?" she can only respond with "Nei"). This is supported by the song played which implies Layla is like a mother. Her laughing bout near the end was in order to release all of her energy from finally completing her life's goal (she laughs strangely because she hasn't laughed for so many years).

Layla is really no kind of person to lead a people, which is why she consistently refuses to accept the position of mayor of a city(She lacks sympathy, not very talkative or social, quick to anger, not the kind of person one could imagine doing paperwork). These character traits would make it very hard for her to work in any kind of society; she was raised for one purpose only: to kill Volg. With no more true purpose (Volg is dead, Nei has finally matured and is also in good hands with Westa-sama and Speedy), she has to find a new purpose for living.

The last episode of Avenger IMO did a good job of concluding an excellent anime.

Breogan · 2004-01-22, 18:44

Actually I thought the stuff in the moon's surface were cities, and Volk was going to throw the bombs at it despite being full of people, like he did with the spaceship that came from earth, where Layla lived.

I think the "This is not how it was planned" came from the sun showing up. From what I recall, it never showed up even once, as it was covered by the moon, but maybe the moon got attracted by Mars' gravity into an orbit, and that's why the sun could be seen.

SilverLeafTree · 2004-01-22, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breogan

Actually I thought the stuff in the moon's surface were cities, and Volk was going to throw the bombs at it despite being full of people, like he did with the spaceship that came from earth, where Layla lived.

I think the "This is not how it was planned" came from the sun showing up. From what I recall, it never showed up even once, as it was covered by the moon, but maybe the moon got attracted by Mars' gravity into an orbit, and that's why the sun could be seen.

Good note on the sun appearing, but having actual people living on the red moon might be off a little, since the implications of that would be very deep and the anime didn't mention it at all? Please tell me if they did, but I think that all the lines on the planet are fractures on its tectonic plates with molten rock and lava causing all the light.

FlyByNite · 2004-01-22, 19:33

Hey so was that the moon as in Lunar "Earth's Moon" or was it one of Mar's moons? Cuz if it was I never understood why they never called it Demos or Phobos since Mars has two moons you'd think they'd differentiate it with it.

But if it was a new moon, perhaps somehow our Moon launched towards Mars with the destruction of the Earth in an attempt to terraform Mars then it would make some sense of the show to me

Ori · 2004-01-22, 20:12

I don't mind the ending. I think I expected an ending like this.

A person like Layla will never be able to live happily ever after. She is too emotionless and lonely to ever live happily.

It's not just becasue of her past, it's her personality. She is just so distant and stuff she can't stand to live with a lot of people all the time. She can't live in the city for long.

Nei needs education, education that Layla cannot give her. She deserves an easier life, she can only get that in a city.

Layla just decided to go find the real meaning to her life, I think it is quite conclusive an ending.

wsheit · 2004-01-23, 03:45

Hey, thanks SilverLeafTree! I just watched the final ep of Avenger but I was unclear on a few things. Your explanation was very helpful. Your analysis of the characters seems to be right on.

I still think the issue of whether the planets were going to collide was unresolved. It is hinted to in the last few eps and then we never know what the living characters do about it.

Everything else fits together quite nicely. I thoroughly enjoyed this anime- especially the last 3 episodes. It seems like 2/3 of the OST was written for the last 3 episodes.

Ratix · 2004-01-24, 08:39

Ah heck. I've watched only until episode 6... Ah! Spoilers!
LOL. Anyway, I chose to see spoilers and don't mind spoilers.

BTW, your Spoilers is spelled wrongly.

Keitaro · 2004-01-24, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratix

BTW, your Spoilers is spelled wrongly.

Its fixed now

LiQuid|J · 2004-01-25, 00:32

I'm glad I skipped this one and just waited for the spoiler info. I watched four episodes of this and nearly died of boredom. I would feel really shafted right now had I decided to keep up with this.

SilverLeafTree · 2004-01-25, 00:52

wsheit: You're very welcome, I'm very glad that I could help you understand. I personally enjoyed this anime a lot (same Director/Music/Opening theme artist as Noir my favorite anime) and I hope that all of you who did not understand it the first time try to rewatch or rethink it through.

Ratix · 2004-01-28, 06:39

Well, I've watched until Episode 12, and is still downloading the last episode.
About episode 10, I dont understand somethings...

1) Is Cross(AKA Ares) Layla's REAL father?
2) Since Cross is one of the original Dozen, how does he get on the ship to save Layla?
3) Why does he keep saying hes Volk? Is that some sort of psychological effect to stimulate Layla?

Anlushac11 · 2004-01-28, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratix

Well, I've watched until Episode 12, and is still downloading the last episode.
About episode 10, I dont understand somethings...

1) Is Cross(AKA Ares) Layla's REAL father?
2) Since Cross is one of the original Dozen, how does he get on the ship to save Layla?
3) Why does he keep saying hes Volk? Is that some sort of psychological effect to stimulate Layla?

Spoilers

Spoiler:

Ratix · 2004-01-28, 08:28

Ooh thanks XD

BTW, I just watched the last episode.

Ummm whats the name of the insert songs in the episodes(If i'm not wrong, there are 4 insert song).

Spoiler:

How bout the other 3?

Thanks ^_^

Ratix · 2004-01-29, 03:47

Ummm hello anyone?

2004-01-24, 08:39	Link #73
Ratix Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Age: 35	Ouch. Ah heck. I've watched only until episode 6... Ah! Spoilers! LOL. Anyway, I chose to see spoilers and don't mind spoilers. BTW, your Spoilers is spelled wrongly.

2004-01-28, 06:39	Link #77
Ratix Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Age: 35	Question about Avenger... (SPOILERS) Well, I've watched until Episode 12, and is still downloading the last episode. About episode 10, I dont understand somethings... 1) Is Cross(AKA Ares) Layla's REAL father? 2) Since Cross is one of the original Dozen, how does he get on the ship to save Layla? 3) Why does he keep saying hes Volk? Is that some sort of psychological effect to stimulate Layla?

2004-01-28, 08:28	Link #79
Ratix Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Age: 35	Ooh thanks XD BTW, I just watched the last episode. Ummm whats the name of the insert songs in the episodes(If i'm not wrong, there are 4 insert song). Spoiler: One of them is in Episode 3... Another 2 in the episode where they met that guy in venus city(I forgot the episode) And the last one is in the last episode... I know the name of the last one which is jigoku no Kisetsu... How bout the other 3? Thanks ^_^

2004-01-29, 03:47	Link #80
Ratix Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Age: 35	Hello? Ummm hello anyone?

2004-01-22, 12:19	Link #63
Ori Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003	Did Layla just died at the end? With that special cross with her necklace on it?

2004-01-22, 17:49	Link #64
Breogan Umeboshi Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Spain Age: 44	Nah, she just threw it away. If you notice, she's holding it in her hand in the previous scene.

2004-01-22, 18:12	Link #66
mirichan Senior member Join Date: Jul 2003	And is it just me, or not only did the ending sucked to high heaven, did not answer ANY questions and Layla also has the weirdest laugh you've ever heard? It sounded insane, to tell you the truth! Oh well... that was quite a waste of my time, watching that show! I should have stuck to my first impression (and second and third) and flush that show after the first few episodes...

2004-01-22, 18:16	Link #67
SilverLeafTree UnLeet Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 36	Err... SPOILERS but that's already marked in the topic heading... I liked that last episode personally on a technical basis except for on a few points... For some reason when Volg's headgear was cracked the depiction of his face was kind of inconsistent. Also, they sure did reuse the cells of Nei lying down and breathing a lot. Besides that, I can finally get a translation of those Avenger songs ^_^, I thought the music was well done as well as the fighting scene's action. Now onto the explanation... Volg is the protector of Mars; yet the same time he is protecting Mars from disorder with his iron rule, he is unable to move forward and bring better days for the people of Mars. We can see this as Layla lays the first real blow to Volg's body, water begins springing out of the ground(water is necessary for life, the people on Mars have been doing very badly without water [e.g. the cultivation of plants would be near-impossible as seen by Cross' attempts]). The more Volg is beat, the more life-giving water comes out of the ground. Volg soon realizes that he is the cause of the misfortune of the people of Mars and jumps over the cliff into the water. Westa-sama seems to understand this as well as she says "I'm sure the planet will accept our [Volg's in particular] corpses in order to create a better world for the people of Mars." It is also this water that washes away Volg's looming skyscraper down along with some broken dolls. Note how nothing else is really destroyed by the water except for Volg's city; the other city on the mesa as well as the battleground is untouched by these benevolent tides. On a different, more scientific level, the last episode has meaning as well. We can infer that the water's spouting came from the red moon's gravitational pull upon Mars, causing the water to come out. The phrase "this wasn't how it was planned" implies that the people on Mars had some kind of plan to avoid the impending disaster from a possible collission. They also tried alter the moon's course by detonating bombs on it (they had to be very big since you could see them even from mars). Perhaps this was all in vain; maybe the red moon's original purpose was to pull water from the ground and its course would not be altered. Layla Ashley's main motive was to protect Nei, not kill Volg or save Mars (When Volg asks her "why?" she can only respond with "Nei"). This is supported by the song played which implies Layla is like a mother. Her laughing bout near the end was in order to release all of her energy from finally completing her life's goal (she laughs strangely because she hasn't laughed for so many years). Layla is really no kind of person to lead a people, which is why she consistently refuses to accept the position of mayor of a city(She lacks sympathy, not very talkative or social, quick to anger, not the kind of person one could imagine doing paperwork). These character traits would make it very hard for her to work in any kind of society; she was raised for one purpose only: to kill Volg. With no more true purpose (Volg is dead, Nei has finally matured and is also in good hands with Westa-sama and Speedy), she has to find a new purpose for living. The last episode of Avenger IMO did a good job of concluding an excellent anime.

2004-01-22, 18:44	Link #68
Breogan Umeboshi Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Spain Age: 44	Actually I thought the stuff in the moon's surface were cities, and Volk was going to throw the bombs at it despite being full of people, like he did with the spaceship that came from earth, where Layla lived. I think the "This is not how it was planned" came from the sun showing up. From what I recall, it never showed up even once, as it was covered by the moon, but maybe the moon got attracted by Mars' gravity into an orbit, and that's why the sun could be seen.

2004-01-22, 19:33	Link #70
FlyByNite Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2003	Hey so was that the moon as in Lunar "Earth's Moon" or was it one of Mar's moons? Cuz if it was I never understood why they never called it Demos or Phobos since Mars has two moons you'd think they'd differentiate it with it. But if it was a new moon, perhaps somehow our Moon launched towards Mars with the destruction of the Earth in an attempt to terraform Mars then it would make some sense of the show to me

2004-01-22, 20:12	Link #71
Ori Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003	I don't mind the ending. I think I expected an ending like this. A person like Layla will never be able to live happily ever after. She is too emotionless and lonely to ever live happily. It's not just becasue of her past, it's her personality. She is just so distant and stuff she can't stand to live with a lot of people all the time. She can't live in the city for long. Nei needs education, education that Layla cannot give her. She deserves an easier life, she can only get that in a city. Layla just decided to go find the real meaning to her life, I think it is quite conclusive an ending.

2004-01-23, 03:45	Link #72
wsheit Combating Spoiler Scum Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 40	Hey, thanks SilverLeafTree! I just watched the final ep of Avenger but I was unclear on a few things. Your explanation was very helpful. Your analysis of the characters seems to be right on. I still think the issue of whether the planets were going to collide was unresolved. It is hinted to in the last few eps and then we never know what the living characters do about it. Everything else fits together quite nicely. I thoroughly enjoyed this anime- especially the last 3 episodes. It seems like 2/3 of the OST was written for the last 3 episodes.

2004-01-25, 00:32	Link #75
LiQuid\|J Pantsu Faito! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: GTO = Best anime. Ever. Thanks. Age: 43	I'm glad I skipped this one and just waited for the spoiler info. I watched four episodes of this and nearly died of boredom. I would feel really shafted right now had I decided to keep up with this.

2004-01-25, 00:52	Link #76
SilverLeafTree UnLeet Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 36	wsheit: You're very welcome, I'm very glad that I could help you understand. I personally enjoyed this anime a lot (same Director/Music/Opening theme artist as Noir my favorite anime) and I hope that all of you who did not understand it the first time try to rewatch or rethink it through.