2006-06-03, 01:51 | Link #42 | |||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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Quite honestly I'm asking for more than you can possibly give..I just want to see how you deal with it...The more you rollerskate tells me there isn't enuff evidence to support Lacus' plausibility as a great leader especially in a comparison of real societal leaders...If you can't provide any young leaders whose successes are as plausible as Lacus', how can Lacus be plausible?? And answer these questions even if it just serves to entertain me please...Either you have an answer or you dont...
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2006-06-03, 02:42 | Link #43 | ||||||
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2006-06-03, 02:51 | Link #44 |
神
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chi-town
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err. 4Tran, I didn't watch Alexander nor did take any classes in World History so I don't know
Also, good question, what did Lacus accomplish in the first place? I already stated that she didn't accede into any political power after Seed infact, she did the opposite, she went into seclusion. It's called the CLYNE FACTION not LACUS FACTION. For all we know, her father did everything ahead and just made sure that Lacus was the catalyst (she already had the criteria: fiancee of the son of the chairman, popular songstress). Let's not forget her talented personel consisting of Waltfeld, Dacosta and ofcourse, the entire FACTION. She may seem perfect but how much of it was made by her personal actions and how much of it was given to her by her father and ofcourse her personel. Im going in circles. |
2006-06-03, 03:04 | Link #45 | |
r0x0rz j00r b0x0rz
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Lacus: "Ima go shopping for some clothes in the mall, but I'm pretty safe that Athrun will Syphon-filter everyone who dares assassinate me! (Kira, you can pose with your water gun for photo ops) |
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2006-06-03, 09:23 | Link #47 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Philip of Macedon builds a large army in the interest of conquering his immediate neighbors. He dies before he gets much of a chance to use it. His son, Alexander, becomes the king of Macedon at the age of 20 and proceeds with his father's plans. Alexander ends up conquering just about all of the known world, and builds an empire stretching from Greece to India. Along the way, he fought in many major battles, often facing vastly superior numbers. Alexander still ended up winning all of his battles. And so on... If you substitute "Philip" with "Sigel" and "conquer the world" with "end a ruinous war", and you should get the gist of what I'm getting at. Quote:
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2006-06-03, 10:01 | Link #48 |
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Want a great young leader? Alex the great. He conquered THE ENTIRE [known] WORLD by 20. Or how about Temujin aka Genghis Khan? As soon as he was old enough to lead, he went and crushed the nearest enemy tribes and united his people. And then of course conquered just about the entire known world. Lacus's achievements historically aren't that implausible, even winning with a far lesser army (see: MONGOLS).
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2006-06-03, 12:43 | Link #49 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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But I agree that Lacus is too reckless with her life, and that Eternal is a tender that should stay well behind the lines, once its MS and the meteors are launched. For that matter, instead of using it as her flag, she could stay aboard the AA, which is much better armed and armored. (But then, Yzak wouldn't have an excuse to protect her...) Other Lacus mistakes: until the assassination attempt and Meer, she was totally buying Dully's nice guy act. She was also blindsided by Break the World and all related matters - so much for her so-called omniscience. |
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2006-06-03, 20:14 | Link #50 | ||
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Er, Hi. Long time lurker, first time poster, I just wanted to through in my two cents.
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Not to say that he wasn't a genius, and a fabulous leader, but not every thing worked out as he wanted, and he made some pretty big missteps. He assumed that his men were loyal to the death. Instead, they were loyal to a point. Quote:
Lets say, that in the next Gundam SEED Series, a new character is introduced. She is Kira's previously unknown second sister, is another ultimate coordiator, SEED factor positive, and a Newtype. She has her own Gundam, Majesty lets call it, that can defeat every other moble suit in the Cosmic Era, without damage. She's a better pilot than Kira, Athrun, Shinn, Mwu/Neo/whatever, and Lunamaria combined. Athrun, Shinn, and Mwu/Neo/whatever, by the way, fall completely in love with her at first sight and spend most of the series fighting over her. She leads her own private millitary force independant from the Clyne Faction, ZAFT, Orb, and the EA. Everyone in said faction is unbendingly loyal to her. She is a better singer than Lacus, wears a shorter skirt than Lunamaria, and is the heir to the Kingdom of Faroffshinyplace, a land where there is no conflict between Naturals and coordinators, and everyone lives in peace. Whenever Lacus is in the same scene as she is, she (Lacus) begins acting stuck up and concieted, and becomes oddly incompitant, allowing the new character to run rings around her. Eventually, the new character and her faction defeat, well, everyone since Lacus was planning to build a new GENESIS, and she brings eternal peace to the earth forevermore. Sound like a character you could like? Such characters are commonly called "Mary Sues" by the fanfiction community. A Mary Sue is a character who is given either no flaws or only simpathetic flaws (she cares about everyone too much). A Mary Sue is not allowed to fail or be hurt, even if she does something incredibly dangerous, because she's either skilled enough to get out of it, or has justified perfect trust in those who protect her. She can do everything, and usually does. Any one who the Mary Sue does not like, or who does not like the Mary Sue, ends up failing. This is why many of us do not like Lacus. She never has hardship, except when convient for her(The death of her father put her in control of the Clyne faction, for example). If she does make a bad decision, it never hurts her, because either she or someone else fixes it before it does. She never truely suffers, and always remains a shining ideal. The story of SEED and Destiny revolves around her more than it does Kira, Athrun, and Shinn, at times. Take what happens after Strike is destroyed, for example. Why does Reverend Malchio send Kira to Lacus? There must have been somewhere closer and more convient for Kira to go to recouperate, not to mention more private. The answer is simple as long as you understand that Kira was sent there so that he could develop his relationship with Lacus, and so that she could be the one who gave him Freedom. Why did Shinn always turn crazy and psycotic when he fought the Clyne faction, when he was skilled enough to beat five Destroys at once when she wasn't around? Because Lacus, Kira, and the Clyne faction needed to triumph over a powerful, evil enemy. As I once aptly heard it put: "A character exists to serve the story. A Mary Sue exists to have the story serve them." |
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2006-06-03, 20:24 | Link #51 |
r0x0rz j00r b0x0rz
Join Date: Jan 2006
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wow, well said O_O
I generally dont have a problem with Kids running the world since a. As people pointed out, there have been great young leaders in real history and b. there have been great young leaders in gundam. So 18yr old gals ruling the world isnt a prob for me at all. But the fact that Lacus can do no wrong >.> thats the problem. Putting herself in supposed danger (ep.13, 39, 46) wasn't even a real mistake at all---her thug(s) always comes in to serve the opponents' asses. Did I mention she never gets angry? |
2006-06-03, 20:36 | Link #54 | |
神
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chi-town
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Also EAF and ZAFT wouldn't take care of the injured Kira. The EAF would prosecute him for being a coordinator and ZAFt likewise would have him killed. Orb was in the brink of invasion and I dont think the other sovereign nations are gonna handle Kira, heck those countries might hand him to the EAF/ZAFT. In Lacus's defense, what did she not achieved? Didn't she preached of peace? And what happened? GSD happened. yeah. So much for that. She's hurt, everytime some war happens, she's in despair. And that episode where Meer died, Kira and Athrun were prepared for any sort of attacks hence that's why they made Kira's bird fly. Sure she has perfect trust in his friends but that doesn't make her invulnerable, hence the heavy preparations. Last edited by tritoch; 2006-06-03 at 20:46. |
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2006-06-03, 20:51 | Link #56 | |
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P.S. Welcome to the forums. |
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2006-06-03, 21:17 | Link #58 | ||
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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At least the plots of the various Astray manga were sufficently complex and detailed, that they never needed to retcon anything. (I am looking at you, Fukuda.) Quote:
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2006-06-03, 21:30 | Link #59 | ||
Count of Monte Dorifto
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The following statements by me may have not much relevance to the actual arguement at hand, but I just feel like getting some stuff out of my mind.
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At least Kira and Athrun had issues in SEED, which they eventually overcame and tore down the house and were awesome characters. But in Destiny, whom Shinn was meant to be the protagonist, instead they butchered Athrun again making him sink into the helpless, confused guy for the first half of the series only so we can focus on him again, and then they brought back Kira, who had almost nothing to develop - we already know how powerful he is, we already know what he's all about and what he intends to do, etc. etc. nothing much changed. As for Lacus - she seems to be the same as she was ever since we were first introduced to her in SEED. Pure, kind, sweet, sugar-coated and omnipotent. It was a little useful in SEED, but as an audience, I kinda got over it in Destiny. I wanted to see Shinn, being the sad, resentful kid that he was try to get over his past and mature and develop as a character, but things didn't quite go my way, lol. |
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2006-06-03, 21:34 | Link #60 | ||
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