2013-12-29, 20:54 | Link #1 |
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isn't it already established that its an alternate world? even Roderick from Roderick firm said it. Its like people watching log hora aren't even watching and they aren't like Isaac which is just being tsundere on stuff.
THIS IS NOT SAO They aren't inside a game or playing a virtual game. Its getting irritating with its being mentioned again and again but people still keep on saying it. Moderators Note:----- Ground Rules to participate in this thread: - Absolutely no spoilers or hints will be allowed in the thread. I understand it poses a certain challenge for the novel/manga readers, but I think those guys will be able to cope with the no-spoiler rule better than the people who are learning about the world slowly by watching the anime only. So the theories and speculations about the world will be more diverse and more interesting. The discussion will be fun that way. Any agreement, dispute or disagreement about any theories must be based on the information provided in the anime. Every other tid-bits of information that hasn't been covered by the anime will be dismissed, deleted, burned in stake and etc.. - Let's also take care to not to throw flames at each other over these theories. Such posts will be deleted and dismissed with equal disdain as any spoiler in this thread. Have fun and enjoy the discussion!
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Last edited by monir; 2013-12-30 at 09:11. |
2013-12-29, 21:15 | Link #2 | |
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2013-12-29, 21:29 | Link #3 | |
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2013-12-29, 22:09 | Link #4 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
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If you transported a regular person from say, the 1950's, into the world of Log Horizon, he'd find the automatic assumption by modern day Adventurers that the People of the land were not *real* to be literally incomprehensible. Without familiarity with the concept of how NPC's in RPG's function, the assumption that the People of the Land weren't real wouldn't make sense. And given how radically different this Elder Scrolls is from the actual game (especially with the People of the Land), citing familiarity with the original game isn't a very authoritative argument. Quote:
Of course now we're just talking about Solipsim here. And the basic tenants of the philosophy apply just as much in our world as they do in the world of Elder Scrolls. And navel gazing philosophies about how everything and everyone might actually be fake aren't necessarily the best basis to determine practical laws/codes of conduct for running an orderly society should work.
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2013-12-29, 22:32 | Link #5 | |
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2013-12-29, 23:19 | Link #6 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
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2013-12-29, 23:57 | Link #7 | |
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2013-12-30, 00:04 | Link #8 | |
whatever
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if u read SAO light novel until the last arc, this elder tale still being a virtual game IS possible
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2013-12-30, 01:25 | Link #10 |
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It never has been since they have no way to prove any of their theories regarding the nature of the reality they're in. What is established is that the Round Table and Akiba are treating it like an alternate reality and going forward on the assumption that their theory is correct because to do otherwise will likely lead to crap like Susekino. Their working relationship with reality and the actual nature of reality are not the same thing; frankly it's the most sensible answer because there is no downside to believing so even if they are wrong and plenty of issues if they do otherwise and are wrong.
Within the context of the world, the characters don't question whether the world is real or not at this point because there's really no point for them to do so. Let's assume they believe it all to be a game, then what? Well the answer is what we saw; the start of the series and the decline of Akiba and Susekino with a few guilds finding purpose in playing the game but the majority falling into apathy due to lack of purpose. What if they assume it's all real and the Landers are people? Well you have what they're doing now; trying to find their way because this is reality and they have no choice but to deal with it. Taking what the Adventurers are doing in order to stay sane as canonical fact on a mystery which they don't understand or know anything about is folly; they don't know and in most instances they aren't thinking about it because it's secondary to restoring some sense of normalcy and purpose to their existence. This is what the Round Table Conference was about. Imagine you questioned your own existence. Imagine you can't tell if you're real or fake. Imagine that you can't tell if what you see is real or isn't. What do you do? It seems to me there's really only three choices: you become paralyzed with indecision, you assume it's all a lie and do whatever you want, or you assume it's all real and act accordingly. Which do you pick? In the end it doesn't matter what the "truth" is, what matters is what you do about it. Shiroe's points about treating the People of the Land as fellow sentients are dressed up in tangible cost-benefit issues (war, hardship, and so forth), however the scene with the random farmers they stayed with on the trip back from Susekino is designed to highlight the fact that to Shiroe the Landers are indistinguishable from "normal" humans. Insisting Akiba treat them like people has little to do with potential harm the Landers can inflict to the Adventurers and everything to do with what is ethically/morally right. Furthermore I suspect that Shiroe saw the link between abusing the Landers and the situation in Susekino, namely that if you convince yourself that something that is, in nearly every single way, indistinguishable from a person is an object which you can do whatever you want with, how long before you start doing the same to people you know are "real?" If Demikas and Brigandia are any indication the answer is "not very long." TL;DR: The nature of the Log Horizon universe has not been established but the Adventurers gain nothing from believing it is anything except real. |
2013-12-30, 02:33 | Link #11 |
cho~ kakkoii
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Thank you for this articulated and well thought out response. And I agree with you completely. At least you didn't right out dismiss the in-your-face correlation about how the setting of this world is a virtual-copy of the online MMORPG. Based on what we've learned up to episode 13, it is still not clear whether these guys are stuck in virtual world or in an alternate universe. So outright dismissing (or showing irritation p) the notion that they still might be stuck in a virtual program would be a bit of a premature assertion.
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2013-12-30, 02:39 | Link #12 | |
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You could walk around believing black people are goblins, indians are orcs, and east asians are alien invaders because your mama told you so, despite the behaviors suggesting otherwise.
But I would think that's gonna do more harm than good while living in the real world. Quote:
Keep in mind they were NOT playing a VRMMO like SAO. This was a regular game, just like we play in the real world. Imagine some massive world-wide entity deciding to suddenly kidnap everyone logged on to World of Warcraft on the exact same time around the globe, strapping them to a virtual machine somehow created to simulate the world of Azeroth perfectly. This ridiculous notion was actually dismissed by Shiroe in the very first volume, but his monologues have been all but cut in the anime since that would be a boring first episode. For this to be even conceived as an man-made virtual world, it would have to involve aliens or supernatural deities. Or time travelers and/or Matrix backdrop. And at that point, it's kinda moot to even consider this not being an actual magical world, no? It's Haruhi level of madness.
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2013-12-30, 02:44 | Link #13 | |
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I'd really recommend reading it since it isn't written in high academia and his sentence structure tends to be less convoluted and meandering than mine! I don't know if you'll be able to draw direct parallels to Log Horizon from it though I can definitely see how it influenced Mamare's work. It also isn't terribly long since each section probably isn't more than a novel page or two in length; most of that length is taken up explaining things. |
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2013-12-30, 03:09 | Link #14 | |
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Its not been stressed out on the first episode or not been shown out at all. But in the manga. there was a small event before the clock ticks 12:00 or rather before the whole update and log in on ET.
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But the part where Shiroe was investigating the settings, his surroundings and the feeling of his surrounding. Its happening when he arrive in elder tales and up to meeting with naotsugu and concluding it after they met that "its real" and even after the episode ended. In the preview of the next episode. Shiroe always say that "this is our reality" heck, I think he also said that in episode 1. Aside from body disappearance and body becoming real plus following the pre-made character in ET. Can you even suggest that as something like sci-fi genre? plus it happen world wide. It didn't just happen like in one part of the country with only 10000 people. it happen in millions around the world. I think even a world class terrorist group won't be able to hide their bodies around for a long time without being find. Unless you go "fantasy" setting on explaining their disappearance. Quote:
Plus next episode would actually explain the "whole body in the game/world" is important. That makes a huge difference on what's happening.
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2013-12-30, 03:11 | Link #15 | |
cho~ kakkoii
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2013-12-30, 03:16 | Link #16 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Doesn't prove the theory, but currently the evidence we have leans in favor of the alternate universe theory. |
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2013-12-30, 03:22 | Link #17 | |
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I think this discussion though needs to make a distinction between what the Adventurers think of the situation and what we, the viewers, think of it. To the Adventurers the issue is moot because they can do absolutely nothing about it so it isn't something they spend much time caring about; to them it's just another world. To us, the viewer, it does matter on the meta level because it informs how we view the actions of the characters and the world. In that sense I think Log Horizon should have stressed a little harder what we're talking about now. |
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2013-12-30, 03:38 | Link #18 | |
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I would say the laws of physics still come first, then the MMO rules come into play. However as we learned from the cooking and other things, the MMO rules are getting a bit flimsy...
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2013-12-30, 06:09 | Link #19 |
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And WTH is noopsphere ? As far i know , every major update (expansion) in MMORPG , ussualy they will have a major quest . So i think if shiroe want to solve the mystery of ET world. He must find out what is noopsphere first ( novasphere ) sphere = is like an orb glowing thing right ? and what is the major quest of this expansion/update
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2013-12-30, 06:15 | Link #20 | |
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By virtual world, if you mean by actual modern day human hands with no supernatural involved, then every evidence suggest otherwise. My point is, whatever the explanation is, it must be supernatural (or extremely advanced technology beyond the setting of the story) involved - whether it be collective consciousness of men through the internet (noosphere theory) or Haruhi-like reality warping deity, or extra-terrestrial technology. SAO explanation simply is unfeasible, and this is confirmed by characters in-story.
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