[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Translation Project

[Kishin]

While I only really skim these forums, I feel like the comments are something like this,
10% complaining and bitching
20% witch hunt news
30% defenders of witch-hunt
30% general comments of thanks
20% misc questions or corrections
Disclaimer: These percentages have no actual value and are completely made up by me, use only as a rough estimate of how I myself see this thread

At least to me who skims the forums, there are at least 3 times the amount of people who go into walls of text defending witch-hunt from flamers and impatience while the rest are nothing but positive or constructive. Almost every post I read here holds WH in nothing but respect
now to finish with the trademarked

[chronotrig]

Well, there is a small bright side, at least for the short term. The rough translation has just passed a few particularly difficult chapters (mostly difficult because Ryuukishi is now putting an average of 3 meanings into a line).

One more large chapter and we'll reach the incredibly massive series finale that takes up half the patch. For the next week or so, you can expect regular updates to our percentage. While we're at it, let me say that I'm committed to finishing the rough by Christmas, probably of this year.

I apologize for the near-constant delays, but the ball has started slowly rolling again. Hopefully it doesn't get caught in the muck again. I've already been burned by Lion's autocorrect, which changes "Mariage Sorciere" into "Marriage Sorrier" half the time, and catbox into hatbox (not that catbox is a word).

[goldenlove27]

I know I haven't posted here in a long while but I have been keeping track of what's going on and I just want to say that I am glad that you guys are working on the project. I haven't complained nor will I start complaining about the process of the game for the simple fact that you guys have the skills required to translate something as complicated as Umineko as well as translating period.

Even if you were to stop I wouldn't complain as I know how it was for ya'll to come this far. I wish I knew how to read Japanese so I could help even a little but unfortunately I only understand English. The very least I can do is say thank you for your hard work and be patient and wait until you guys are finished translating.

I never would have gotten into VN if it wasn't for ya'll so I'm glad that you guys have opened me up to new experiences. I just wanted to say that b/c since an incident happened the last time I was here happened, I felt the need to show appreciation for everything that happens and not take things for granted.
Whether or not you read this allow me to say Thank You all so very much and I wish you luck on everything you do.

[Yirba]

Ooh, that does sound kinda tough… I know you're all doing your best, so keep the good work up!

Hmmm… doesn't Lion allow you to turn off autocorrect? I much prefer red underlines instead of it automatically 'correcting' me…

[bigemperor]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

Well, there is a small bright side, at least for the short term. The rough translation has just passed a few particularly difficult chapters (mostly difficult because Ryuukishi is now putting an average of 3 meanings into a line).

One more large chapter and we'll reach the incredibly massive series finale that takes up half the patch. For the next week or so, you can expect regular updates to our percentage. While we're at it, let me say that I'm committed to finishing the rough by Christmas, probably of this year.

REALLY REALLY THANKS i am dying to play the ending but i can's believe people are complaining, i will never read a patch made by another group.

Keep up the good work and is nice to have regular updates it will be awesome to have the patch like a Christmas gift =)

[Oblivion]

Haven't even started complaining yet but this is really great news. And really? Hatbox? That's kinda funny lol.

[maximilianjenus]

I can't help it but laugh at the schrodinger's hat thought experiment.

[Madman6510]

Not to mention the fact that Ryukishi is using it completely wrong.

It's a physics "experiment", not a philosophical one.

[Revelation]

In what other sense is it applied incorrectly though? If it takes the "many-worlds" interpretation, I can't really understand why people call this paradox completely inappropriate in the usage.

[Madman6510]

I'm just going to wrap this whole thing in spoiler tags. It should be pretty safe for anyone past Episode 2 anyways, but just to be sure:

Spoiler for catbox lol:

This is just my understanding, so I could be an idiot and misunderstand it myself. What I *think* the characters are trying to say in the series is that "as long as the box is closed (the cat having a 50% chance of being dead, with an equal probability of being alive), you can make up all kinds of crayzee stories about what happened to the cat, and as long as the box is never opened (as is the case with the island), then all of them are equally probable. However, if the box is opened ("checking the Braun tubes"), then the one truth will be revealed. This is the understanding I'm getting from the characters' explanations.

Of course, if you wanted to apply the concept to the reason the Kakera exist for the island, with the island being a "closed box" with many possible universes, even if the "truth" is revealed, all other possibilities still remain valid (as long as they are physically possible, this doesn't allow room for magic to exist), just not in this universe. This is a perfectly valid explanation, but this particular train of thought isn't brought up by any of the characters at all.

Of course, I don't have a degree in theoretical physics (I'm not Gordon Freeman). I'm not even that good at math. I could be completely wrong, although I have heard somewhere that Ryukishi's use is wrong.

[AuraTwilight]

Madman basically has it. Ryukishi just misappropriated the concept in order to make his point, and it's a fully VALID point; it's not like he's discussing cosmology.

[VDZ]

Originally Posted by Madman6510

Not to mention the fact that Ryukishi is using it completely wrong.

It's a physics "experiment", not a philosophical one.

It's not a physics experiment, it's a thought experiment, just one that was thought up to show how stupid part of quantum theory was, and later adapted to explain said aspect of quantum physics. Arguments from one part of science can be used in a different way in another science; if physics were to say mixtures with iron in them can't boil, then biology could use that information to conclude blood cannot boil just fine. Just because something is discovered in science A doesn't mean science B can't use it. (Whether philosophy is a science or not is a different matter altogether, but thought experiments from one can also be used for the other, and some are even more philosophical than they are scientific.)

Originally Posted by Madman6510

I'm just going to wrap this whole thing in spoiler tags. It should be pretty safe for anyone past Episode 2 anyways, but just to be sure:

Spoiler for catbox lol:

This is just my understanding, so I could be an idiot and misunderstand it myself. What I *think* the characters are trying to say in the series is that "as long as the box is closed (the cat having a 50% chance of being dead, with an equal probability of being alive), you can make up all kinds of crayzee stories about what happened to the cat, and as long as the box is never opened (as is the case with the island), then all of them are equally probable. However, if the box is opened ("checking the Braun tubes"), then the one truth will be revealed. This is the understanding I'm getting from the characters' explanations.

Of course, if you wanted to apply the concept to the reason the Kakera exist for the island, with the island being a "closed box" with many possible universes, even if the "truth" is revealed, all other possibilities still remain valid (as long as they are physically possible, this doesn't allow room for magic to exist), just not in this universe. This is a perfectly valid explanation, but this particular train of thought isn't brought up by any of the characters at all.

Of course, I don't have a degree in theoretical physics (I'm not Gordon Freeman). I'm not even that good at math. I could be completely wrong, although I have heard somewhere that Ryukishi's use is wrong.

Congrats, you don't get the point of the thought experiment. It's not 'alive or dead', it's 'alive AND dead'. The two possibilities are both true at the same time, until someone observes the result and concludes only one of the two is true (at which point the other option is no longer true).

Spoiler for Cat box in Umineko:

As none of the stories have been disproven, they all exist simultaneously in different kakera.

even if the "truth" is revealed, all other possibilities still remain valid (as long as they are physically possible, this doesn't allow room for magic to exist), just not in this universe.

How are you so sure of this? Umineko (especially episode 8) very strongly implies this is not the case. Remember that all "non-true" kakera are made of magic (they're game boards made by witches), and that magic can only exist in unobserved places and situations. When the truth of the Rokkenjima incident is revealed, all of that magic is disproven and disappears, leaving only the true kakera and its natural variations. In all of those variations, the publicly known details are the same. Remember how in Higurashi

Spoiler for Major Higurashi spoilers:

Tomitake was always the first victim, Miyo was always the culprit, and Hinamizawa was always completely destroyed because of the "Great Hinamizawa Disaster"? Those are all information known by outside sources, and therefore unchangeable facts. Every single kakera had those elements. Only the events people could only guess at were different between the kakera. The only exception to this is the final kakera, which was created through a miracle.

Known facts do not differ even between the kakera. For that reason, once the truth is revealed about the Rokkenjima accident, it is very likely all other kakera not compatible with it just vanish.

Or, the simpler answer, courtesy of Steins;Gate:

[Madman6510]

Yeah, told you I wasn't an expert and was basically guessing based on what I read on Wikipedia :P

I did understand the bit about it being both alive and dead until "determined" by the observer originally (although the cat can still exist in the opposite state once observed as-per the many-worlds interpretation, but the observer would never be aware of this), I just wrote it wrong the first time.

The point I was trying to make is that Ryukishi was trying to use a physics thought experiment (I was aware it wasn't a real experiment, as such I put "experiment" in quotes) and re-appropriate it as a philosophical thought experiment. Or rather, why what was originally used to explain quantum physics became an explanation for why you can make stuff up as long as nobody knows the difference.

[AuraTwilight]

How are you so sure of this?

He's not, he's talking specifically about kakera theory. Stop being so confrontational, friend.

[Lotaphi]

Spoiler for episode 2:

Really? people had trouble getting the catbox thing? It's actually really simple. Unless you can somehow open the "lid" on the answer of what happend that weekend, then there is no single right answer. All answer's that could exist are true at the same time.

It is in no way used wrong.

I guess another example would be a lottery scratch off. before you scratch it, you can go around and tell everyone you won 1,000,000$ with it. Someone else can say "I'm pretty sure you won 5000$ with it.

neither of them are wrong (thus making them both correct) since you can't disprove either of them unless they removed the "lid" on it and scratched the scratch off.

Originally Posted by Madman6510

Yeah, told you I wasn't an expert and was basically guessing based on what I read on Wikipedia :P

I did understand the bit about it being both alive and dead until "determined" by the observer originally (although the cat can still exist in the opposite state once observed as-per the many-worlds interpretation, but the observer would never be aware of this), I just wrote it wrong the first time.

The point I was trying to make is that Ryukishi was trying to use a physics thought experiment (I was aware it wasn't a real experiment, as such I put "experiment" in quotes) and re-appropriate it as a philosophical thought experiment. Or rather, why what was originally used to explain quantum physics became an explanation for why you can make stuff up as long as nobody knows the difference.

so you take information you read on Wikipedia to completely mock someones work?

[Madman6510]

I was in no way mocking it. Where did I say that the modified usage was bad? I just said that it was incorrect usage of the actual thought experiment. People started talking about how they lol'd at the catbox thing (which, actually, I misread from the post above mine), and I added something saying that the usage in the story had been modified a ton from what it actually was. Someone asked for clarification, so I clarified from what I knew.

The explanation you gave fits the explanation used in the story, but not the original thought experiment, which is about two conflicting states existing at the same time, even after (in some interpretations) one state was determined by the observer. This DOES fit with a part of the story, but not the parts explained when the "catbox" is brought up in the story (but it does fit the "alternate" explanation, but not the original point of the thought experiment).

Let's stop this now. This is just starting to get stupid.

[Leo_Otaku]

I would also like to thank witch hunt and expressive amount of thanks. I can not even imagine who has to go through all of that text!! I swear there is more than most visual novels. Thank you so much for all your continued hard word and dedication!

[gtr06]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOYyCHGWJq4

I like this simple Shrodinger explanation.

[Yirba]

Originally Posted by Leo_Otaku

I would also like to thank witch hunt and expressive amount of thanks. I can not even imagine who has to go through all of that text!! I swear there is more than most visual novels. Thank you so much for all your continued hard word and dedication!

Yup, Umineko is one of the longest visual novels ever. Heck, it's arguably even one of the longest novels ever written (although I'd rather not bring up that discussion again )!

[Witch of Uncertainty]

Longer than higurashi?