2011-12-19, 02:30 | Link #5021 | |
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I didn't say it was the only thing, but it did make Force stand out from the rest of the franchise from its conception.
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2011-12-19, 03:51 | Link #5022 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Tell the truth, great reason people hate Force is cause the main character is male. The story sure can be improved, but it is not that bad. There are worse anyway.
A little off topic, I wonder what will it be like if Gen gets to write Nanoha. Maybe Fate will get beheaded like Mami? That guy doesn't give a damn about what fandom says and follow his script unlike some gundam show so I guess it might be great. |
2011-12-19, 04:05 | Link #5023 |
Carbon
Join Date: Nov 2003
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No, I think the reason why the main character alienates some readers is because he's well.. alien
he could be a main character to an unrelated story and it wouldn't matter They failed to build up bridge between the new character and the old one. Compare this to Subaru's debut. Considerable difference. But, yes.. there are different rules for male character because your typical reader nowadays is so easily threatened and insecure. Touma has several no-nos: --He is not a student --He does not have a Japanese name --He does not have noticeable troubles with woman How is the viewer suppose to relate to that?
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2011-12-19, 04:26 | Link #5024 | ||
I'm here for the reason..
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And looks like, that question has been answered. Quote:
And the worst again is: too many Villain Sue is seen. Most villains often steal Thoma's appearance portion
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2011-12-19, 06:17 | Link #5025 | |||||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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And really, I don't really see this dislike "on the internet as a whole" sure, there are some people who don't like it on every site. But for every person that doesn't, I can easily spot another who does. For me, I'm not big on the whole mecha genre, so saying "Gundam with cute girls" is changing the one thing I didn't like (mecha's) into something I do like (cute girls). So it's pretty much a compliment to me. |
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2011-12-19, 06:58 | Link #5026 | |||||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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People hates change, not when they're comfortable with the way things are. And pretty sure the Hucks are all smug and happy right now. Quote:
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Like A's, but with more jobbers! Like A's, but with the weapons being even more ineffective! like A's, but with the fights more lop-sided! Like you point out yourself, the main difference? The main character has a rod and tackle now! What a TWEEEST!
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Last edited by Tiresias; 2011-12-19 at 07:27. Reason: V, not B |
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2011-12-19, 09:18 | Link #5027 | |||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Instant change, I agree would be impossible. If Thoma walked in going "hi guys, you be good now, k?" he'd be laughed out of the room. Quote:
So, Vita should change her entire combat style then? Funny, because when Erio did that, people complained. Quote:
True. Originality is something Force is lacking. It's just A's with more grit and a male lead. But it does make me scratch my head at all the "they changed it, now it sucks" style comments. |
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2011-12-19, 10:41 | Link #5028 | |||
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Yeah, that's another attitude I encounter often. People just don't dig giant robots Just look at the lack of them in western culture: outside of Transformers you don't see any big American mecha shows. Quote:
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2011-12-19, 10:43 | Link #5029 |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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Nope, not just that. It deconstructed a whole system in a "what if that fluffy thing was not that well-intentionned?" with a Faustian twist. It did it good, and it still managed to come back to its roots, the magical genre, in the end. I am deeply sorry if some guys around here are so butthurt about this show making a lasting impression on people like Anno, or a sociologist. But saying "No! Madoka is not this and that, you guys are all idiots for going "I liked that show cool story bro!!"" is not going to make it magically suck. It must really suck to be them.
Now if you want a story that was all light-hearted, took a darker turn and still have the hero emerging as a better man and BE GOOD AT THIS, you have Trigun. How could you guys forget about Trigun? Something like what happened to Vash is something I WANT to see happen to Nanoha or/and Fate, just to see what they are made of. Good old Kurt and his assessment, "Be a Sadist. No matter how sweet and innocent your leading characters, make awful things happen to them—in order that the reader may see what they are made of."
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2011-12-19, 14:35 | Link #5030 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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2011-12-19, 18:27 | Link #5033 | ||||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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If the anti-magic really have no effect, then there should be a scene of those circles intercepting Fate's attack, like what was the case at chapter 7, only these time the dispel circles do nothing. For those who can understand the unscanlated chapters, has there been any in-story after-action evaluation on the effectiveness of each weapon? Details on their strength and weaknesses? Because those pics are to vague for solid confirmation, so I don't buy it. Actually those are shallow changes, superficial additions slapped into an existing template, showing that Tsuzuki didn't even bother trying, so thank you for admitting that
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2011-12-19, 18:47 | Link #5034 |
Writer, Jester, MtG nerd
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Bebop failed in japan fyi (eps 2-12 aired iirc), the lead in sousei no aquarion is a better choice. kenshin and simon are not usual types either.
Essentially, to make money with anime you either make a 'proxy for themselves' or 'wife shopping catalog' or both. The rest takes some gall.
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Last edited by itanshi1; 2011-12-19 at 18:58. |
2011-12-19, 19:06 | Link #5035 | |
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Take the lazy upgrades in A's: Bardiche and Raising Heart get one new part, Nanoha and Fate use them perfectly on the first try despite not knowing the changes and without any sort of prior training. In Force it goes a lot more indepth, with weapons needing to be tested both in the lab and on the field. Field tests show flaws in designs, designs go back into development to fix these flaws, etc etc. You can say the concept is the same, but Force does a lot more with it. But I guess Force is exactly like A's as you said. That's why there's a wheelchair bound orphaned girl who just wants a peaceful life and her servants who break their vow of loyalty and collect magic from others to keep the girl alive. Oh wait, that doesn't happen.
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2011-12-19, 19:18 | Link #5036 | |
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I'll grant you that it did something a bit different to the magical girl genre in the form of Kyubei... but such things have been done before in anime, where you have an innocent who is not such an innocent after all. Madoka arguably did it worse, since you knew very early on that Kyubei wasn't all forthcoming. But it just makes it worse for the characters since we knew it and could easily tell, and they were incredibly blind to it (and Homura was even more stupid about the whole thing). And it makes it worse that he copied all his main ideas from another show and still couldn't pull it off as well as the other one. Even now, I have to chuckle at all the deconstructing of the show that happened, with everyone looking at every single clue like the black cat and the poems and words and stuff, wondering what kind of foreshadowing it heralded, and yet in the end, none of it meant anything and was just there to troll the audience. So, I suppose as a troll, Gen gets high marks (and hey, I fell for it, too!). But Madoka had moe girls in a grimdark setting and had them run around like the dumb blonde in a horror movie. Constantly making stupid choices and never thinking things through. I suppose, in the end, it was the only way to make the plot work. If any of them had stopped and had a single spark of intelligence, the show would have been over by episode 3 or 4. So I'm disappointed it didn't live up to its (hyped) potential. In Nanoha, however, there is an actual struggle and no deus ex or god mode to save them, which makes the struggle more meaningful. it doesn't need to drop the intelligence level of its protagonists into the gutter in order for the plot to work. Yes, I'll grant Madoka's greatest contribution to the magical girl genre was a magical mascot that wasn't all he seemed (even though we all knew that by episode 2). I just happen to prefer the greater changes Nanoha brought; removal of stock footage attacks from magical girl anime in exchange for actual battles, growing girls up into women and following their lives, and introducing an actual universe that showcases just what it's like for magical people to form a society. Not to mention not limiting it to just girls (even though it focuses on them). Madoka never gave a reason why the Kyubei's didn't recruit boys, or even older men or women. Which is why I like Force, because I like seeing the continued developments of this world. I want to see what happens to the Bureau and society when anti-magic becomes a strong enough force that magic can't solve everything anymore, and thus what will happen to the underpinnings that the Bureau bases its philosophy on. Even if the Eclipse infection is brought under control, AMF technology is spreading. Nanoha doesn't limit its protagonists to young moe girls (even though Vivid is catering to that). I suppose, though, that's a reason why Nanoha isn't as popular. With Moe being the new fanservice, it turns off those who want to see cute little girls. That's okay, though. To each their own. I like seeing older Nanoha, Fate, and Hayate. |
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2011-12-19, 20:11 | Link #5037 | |
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2011-12-19, 20:19 | Link #5038 | ||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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"Hmm, how should expand the formula that was successful before? Oh I know, just add more! Increase the numbers of jobbers. Make more new toys (merchandise!)! Increase the number of soldiers!" ...y'know what, the more I think about it the more I think that Force has some StrikerS elements in it, as in the "ADD MOAR" aspect - more number of heroes, more number of villains, more number of redshirts and mooks. Which is bad since one of the main fault in StrikerS is that the character list is so bloated many of them had little to no focus. Not to mention that StrikerS shows Tsuzuki doesn't know how to handle big battle sequences. Oh, and the original post for this argument? Quote:
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2011-12-20, 00:09 | Link #5040 |
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When did I ever claim to be unbiased? I'm human and therefore biased by default.
1 is still different from 2. And Hayate's family dynamic and the Wolkenritter's motives weren't a large part of A's? Plot points? You mean the heroes losing to the new antagonists? Oh yeah, cuz that's totally unique to A's, right? It totally didn't happen in season 1, or StrikerS, or Vivid. Or every other action title ever. Next you'll tell me "Force has protagonists and antagonists... A's has protagonists and antagonists... OMG TOTALLY COPYING!!!"
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manga, nanoha force |
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