Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[henzaeroz]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

Anyway...eventhough maya and Miya experience in the past is bad, they still guilty of what they did to tatsuya

actualy the experiment was conducted so tatsuya can live as one of the Yotsuba

“But, we the Yotsuba are magicians who stand amongst the Ten Master Houses, and therefore one who cannot use magic cannot be a Yotsuba. That child, unable to use magic, could not live as one of the Yotsuba. So Maya and I, seven years ago, performed a certain operation on him. Although truth be told, the motivation behind that experiment wasn’t that alone……”

and probably with another motivation

[Shiyumi]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

Basically like when we are reading a book we can differentiate ourself from the character in the book even if it is emotionally engaging since we have the awareness that the character and us is different but experiences is not, since it is us who is the character...what she is doing is basically changing that POV, from first person to third person (observer) thus only "information"

Anyway...eventhough maya and Miya experience in the past is bad, they still guilty of what they did to tatsuya

Most Yotsuba magician gone through that, but Tatsuya is the only one rebellious. That why he being hate by the entire clan especially the servants(they really loyalty).

[holybell84]

Originally Posted by henzaeroz

example

you kill a cat using a chainsaw >>>>>> Experience

You watch a movie that explains how to use a chainsaw to kill a cat >>>> information




miya using her magic to reconstruct 'the experiential memories' into 'informational memories'."

Still, watching herself getting raped is still highly disturbing....

[henzaeroz]

Originally Posted by Shiyumi

Most Yotsuba magician gone through that, but Tatsuya is the only one rebellious. That why he being hate by the entire clan especially the servants(they really loyalty).

really ? so all their emotions being altered by Miya ?

Originally Posted by holybell84

Still, watching herself getting raped is still highly disturbing....

yes, but it's still different between you're the victim or watching the victim

[Shiyumi]

Originally Posted by henzaeroz

really ? so all their emotions being altered by Miya ?

Their emotions are intact but they didn't hold a grudge and still loyalty.

[henzaeroz]

Originally Posted by Shiyumi

Their emotions are intact but they didn't hold a grudge and still loyalty.

then why only Tatsuya that loses all his emotions but sisterly love

[yuzen003]

Originally Posted by Shiyumi

Most Yotsuba magician gone through that, but Tatsuya is the only one rebellious. That why he being hate by the entire clan especially the servants(they really loyalty).

Where are you getting that most Yotsuba magicians went through what Tatsuya did? The predecessors to the Yotsuba probably went through a lot of what Tatsuya did, but as stated in Untouchable "We, ourselves, are the masters of the laboratory that produced us". Sounds like they chose to endure the experiments in order to become stronger, Tatsuya wasn't really in a position to make that choice given he was a minor.

[belatkuro]

It's even in the same volume, mentioned by Miya herself in the flashback.
Tatsuya was forced in that experiment because the nature of the magic he's born with isn't "true" magic according to the Yotsubas. Whether or not he has a say to it doesn't matter as he's the eldest son of Miya and they needed a successor who can do "true" magic.
He ended up as a failure and thus delegated as a Guardian for Miyuki. That's why most of the clan doesn't like him.

[whitecloud]

And given the context, the other motivation is most likely to test the chip...That is being implanted into tatsuya

[henzaeroz]

Originally Posted by belatkuro

He ended up as a failure and thus delegated as a Guardian for Miyuki. That's why most of the clan doesn't like him.

maybe at first they did not doesn't like him. they just think he is nothing and they do not need to respect him like his sister miyuki.

and may in fact Tatsuya was a bit Haughty

Originally Posted by whitecloud

And given the context, the other motivation is most likely to test the chip...That is being implanted into tatsuya

if they succeed, they could create a true magician

[DarkDooM]

"Nee-san, I.... have been raped"

Doujins when?

[belatkuro]

Rule 34 huh.
We need some for Mayumi, Erika and the rest first. We only have 2 so far and they're both Miyuki. So yeah.

[alviam099]

Originally Posted by DarkDooM

"Nee-san, I.... have been raped"

Doujins when?

You sure are evil.

I don't think that the operation was what you'd really call a failure, though even if it had succeeded Tatsuya's position I presume wouldn't have changed that much if it did.

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by whitecloud

Basically like when we are reading a book we can differentiate ourself from the character in the book even if it is emotionally engaging since we have the awareness that the character and us is different but experiences is not, since it is us who is the character...what she is doing is basically changing that POV, from first person to third person (observer) thus only "information"

Anyway...eventhough maya and Miya experience in the past is bad, they still guilty of what they did to tatsuya

Not "they." Maya doesn't feel squat and we can only infer at best that Miya felt guilty.

Originally Posted by mike211

Thank for the update, I sort of know why Miya and Maya is so twisted now.

I feel bad for Maya, In a way she sort of like Tatsuya, both became broken in a young age.

They are unusually similar. Both of them went through inhumane experiments and had their minds messed with in such a way they lost their humanity in a sense.

Originally Posted by holybell84

Still, watching herself getting raped is still highly disturbing....

She wasn't watching herself get raped. It was her memories, remember? So she was looking at it from her own point of view.

Looking back on "Untouchable," it's strange how neatly everything worked out. I am 100% confident that the Yotsuba then was a lot more closely-knitted than the present Yotsuba. When Genzou went on his mission of revenge, he took all the clan members who had the humanity to volunteer to help. This left a soulless Maya to take charge of the Yotsuba and no one to really stop her. BTW, wasn't this chapter supposed to explain Maya magic?

[cyberdemon]

Things will likely return to what they were like at that time when Miyuki takes charge. Shell never let things continue on as they currently are.

After reading the chapter. I am almost sure that biologically Tatsuya is Maya's son but was likely an experiment they recovered from remnants of the group that did that to Maya, or from the Great Asian Alliance who assimilated them. Miya probably took him in and raised him as a penance to her sister like what she did to her own body since Maya's position would likely never allow her to raise an "fake magician". Personally I like the current status quo between Tatsuya and Miyuki as siblings rather than lovers. I'd rather see him recover his emotions and show interest in the others.

[mike211]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

They are unusually similar. Both of them went through inhumane experiments and had their minds messed with in such a way they lost their humanity in a sense.

It seem like Maya lost the ability to experience emotions and no love one support with lead to her twisted life she have now, and if Tatsuya have lost all emotions and never receive support from Miyuki, I think he would be the same as Maya.

It make you wonder what if the incident to Maya never happen, Maya and Miya would be completely different, Tatsuya would probably be normal and would be treated with love from Maya and Miya.

In the end, the root cause which lead to MC to what he is now is all due to incident of "The Nightmare of 2062".

[Okashira]

Originally Posted by mike211

It seem like Maya lost the ability to experience emotions and no love one support with lead to her twisted life she have now, and if Tatsuya have lost all emotions and never receive support from Miyuki, I think he would be the same as Maya.

For Maya, she had her emotions detached from her memories, but if we take that too literally, then that doesn't mean that her future memories would also be detached from emotional experiences as well; in other words is pretty different from what Tatsuya had to go through, where emotions where completely removed regardless of past or future.

Is as Maya herself said, she can "go on" but from that point on she is going to be a different person (the previous one "died"). Maya has a "bigger ground" to become twisted, as she still has her feelings; Tatsuya might have "a right" to become twisted considering what he has gone through, but he probably can't muster enough feelings to do so.

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by mike211

It seem like Maya lost the ability to experience emotions and no love one support with lead to her twisted life she have now, and if Tatsuya have lost all emotions and never receive support from Miyuki, I think he would be the same as Maya.

It make you wonder what if the incident to Maya never happen, Maya and Miya would be completely different, Tatsuya would probably be normal and would be treated with love from Maya and Miya.

In the end, the root cause which lead to MC to what he is now is all due to incident of "The Nightmare of 2062".

Maya can feel emotions now. Its just that all her experiences up until Miya worked her magic were turned into information. So she could still feel emotions afterwards.

[whitecloud]

Sometimes I wonder, is tatsuya maya or Miya's son?

[yuzen003]

Originally Posted by belatkuro

It's even in the same volume, mentioned by Miya herself in the flashback.
Tatsuya was forced in that experiment because the nature of the magic he's born with isn't "true" magic according to the Yotsubas. Whether or not he has a say to it doesn't matter as he's the eldest son of Miya and they needed a successor who can do "true" magic.

Was this in response to my question of "Where are you getting that most Yotsuba magicians went through what Tatsuya did"? I only saw mention that "the ground facilities are still used in order to test a magician’s performance, and the martial arts gym especially sees much use". The original subjects for the Fourth Institute were experimented on and had their magic calculation area modified, but once the Yotsuba were created why would they need to continue with those experiments when they had already succeeded? If this was in reference could you give a chapter as I missed that detail.