(L) UN-GO (noitaminA, BONES)

[miketyson]

From episode 0: do we know if Bettenou's power works on Inga or not?

[-Sho-]

I always wondered who is the guy in the ED next to Shinjuurou. Maybe he's the one who's controlling Bettenou?

[arson88]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

I always wondered who is the guy in the ED next to Shinjuurou. Maybe he's the one who's controlling Bettenou?

I thought that "Shinjuurou" is the guy in the ED next to the current Shinjuurou. Maybe that is how Shinjuruurou looks like in the past or in the future?

[amasposu]

Just watched episode 10.

My only thought when I finished was, "Wtf?" I still think that Hayami is the one who is using Bettennou. For it to make sense, this whole episode has to be some kind of red herring. In other words, there is red herring on top of red herring, on top of even more red herring. >_>;;

Episode 11 better explain everything. It will be difficult because there is so much to explain. Please don't troll us with a Blood-C-esque ending.

[miketyson]

Whelp, they did it. Not a perfect ending but a very, very strong ending; it certainly doesn't feel like one of those all-too-common "terrible" endings. I am quite pleased that it ends in a way that definitely leaves room for more seasons, however unlikely such extra seasons actually are. A very satisfying ending.

The final arc's mystery is wrapped up cleanly, and in a way that's a shout-out to classic detective stories. I definitely seems like the final arc could've been stretched out over another episode or two, though; everything's explained, but there's literally no fat this week.

[fertygo]

So anyone can give me summary what happened in last eps?

I'm a bit lost watching the eps myself

[Sides]

Really good final, and wraps up things nicely together.
As a whole package I think Un-Go is probably the best anime I have seen the last few years. It is really tough now to watch any other series, after watching this series.

[Kanon]

They wrapped this arc up pretty neatly indeed. The series as a whole, however, feels incomplete; as if it's missing a beginning and a conclusion. Episode 0 should solve half of that problem, so the conclusion is my only issue. It's not that the ending was bad per se, it's just that it was... well, inconclusive. It leaves me craving for more which usually wouldn't be a bad thing, but let's face it: there is about zero chance UN-GO will get a sequel. Thus, I am saddened and slightly frustrated. Aaah, if only this series had gotten 2 cours instead of Guilty Crown...

Another minor complaint I have about this episode is that it was too easy to see through Kaishou's disguise (I recognized him the second he appeared) so it lessened the impact of the big reveal. Oh, and Inga and Bettenou's fight was a bit... unexpected (DO NOT WANT Inga's true form)

Originally Posted by fertygo

So anyone can give me summary what happened in last eps?

I'm a bit lost watching the eps myself

I thought the final episode did a good job explaining everything right down to the smallest detail. What is still confusing you exactly?

[Dop]

That was a good finale, I thought. A real good old fashioned "I have called you all here tonight..." big reveal, possibly the best one of those since Mouryou no Hako.

I have to agree with Kanon, above, in wishing this had been the two cour series instead of Guilty Crown. Certainly, I think of this season's two Noitamina shows, UN-GO has been by far the most... 'Noitamina-ish'.

To quote Shinjurou, "I'm looking forward to what comes next". Because I'd love to see the further adventures of Shinjurou, Inga and Kazamori in their search for truth. I really would. But I very much fear I shall be adding this to the list of "Noitamina shows in need of a sequel which never get one", alongside shows like Mononoke, Moyashimon, Kuragehime and Hourou Musuko to name but four.

[ars89]

Nice way to wrap it up. Really glad Inga was able to take out Bettenou and return to Shinjurou. Agree that Kaishou's disguise was too easy to pick up. So it was indeed Hayami, but didn't think he would do it over her liking Kaishou and not him. Wish there was more, really liked the series. Well just have to wait to watch ep 0 to get the whole picture.

[DezoPenguin]

Spoiler for Ep. 11:

This was definitely an excellent finale. I was of course not surprised that Kaishou was still alive or that he wasn't the ultimate villain of what was going on (though I'd managed to forget just what the heck Full Circle actually was...) What I think I like the best is that Kaishou and Shinjurou basically went through the whole series and both men remained true to who they were, ending with strong statements of their personal ideals which, in turn, are both valid philosophical arguments--in a series like this one, to have firmly taken a stance that "Shinjurou's way is right" by having him defeat Kaishou, would have cheapened the entire journey. Likewise, while normally I despise "open-ended" series, this one doesn't feel like a rip-off the way they usually do, because the two of them will go on, being who they are, usually as rivals and sometimes as allies. Too, Shinjurou definitely didn't seem as tormented as he was for the preceding few episodes; defeating Bettenou for once and for all seemed to help him put a "Fin" stamp on that part of the past for him.

I love how it seemed as if Inga, who'd been basically run over by Bettenou for the past three episodes, was suddenly given the power to defeat her because Shinjurou basically used a trick of language to redefine her...it seemed cheap for a half-second or so, until I realized that Bettenou is a creature who uses the words of another to redefine reality. Basically, all Shinjurou did was to use Bettenou's own schtick against her.

I totally failed most of the deductions, but at least I can pat myself on the back for realizing as soon as Hayama shot Kazamori that Kazamori wasn't, well, "in" the toy and that Shinjurou had in fact set the doll prominently on the table as bait for Hayama. (I also loved Hayama's motive--as I'd observed before, for him to seize Bettenou's power and fling himself into the soup of evil conspiracies seemed OOC for him, and that's the one reason why I wasn't completely convinced it was he who had her, but his real motive...now that's something I can believe! )

Ultimately, I really enjoyed watching this series, both in the "standalone" episodes and the mythology arc, and I'm on board for buying Sentai's DVD release...especially, of course, if they're able to secure Ep. 0 as well!

[fertygo]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I thought the final episode did a good job explaining everything right down to the smallest detail. What is still confusing you exactly?

Maybe I need to rewatch it again, but last 5 minute or so is confusing as hell to me.

Did Kaishou really kill someone then? (That guy in the car that explode) and other trivial stuff that I hard to point.

Well its seems only me that having problem though.

[Quarkboy]

Shinjurou's speech in the final episode and indeed many of the episodes before was taken quite a lot from "Yo wa benmei su" -> "I apologize/Let me Explain/I confess" by Ango Sakaguchi.

This is not a work of fiction by him but an essay:

http://www.aozora.gr.jp/cards/001095...849_34346.html

Let me quote the portion near the end:

Originally Posted by Ango Sakaguchi

失礼しました。私はまつたくダメです。なぜなら、私は教師ではない。私は生徒です。そのくせ、一場のお説教 に及んだ度胸はあさましい。
　私は、たゞ一個の不安定だ。私はたゞ探してゐる。女でも、真理でも、なんでも、よろしい。御想像にお任せ する。私はただ、たしかに探してゐるのだ。
　然し、真理といふものは実在しない。即ち真理は、常にたゞ探されるものです。人は永遠に真理を探すが、真 理は永遠に実在しない。探されることによつて実在するけれども、実在することによつて実在することのない代 物です。真理が地上に実在し、真理が地上に行はれる時には、人間はすでに人間ではないですよ。人間は人間の 形をした豚ですよ。真理が人間にエサをやり、人間はそれを食べる単なる豚です。
　私は日本伝統の精神をヤッツケ、もののあはれ、さび幽玄の精神などを否定した。然し、私の言つてゐること は、真理でも何でもない。たゞ時代的な意味があるだけだ。ヤッツケた私は、ヤッツケた言葉のために、偽瞞を 見破られ、論破される。私の否定の上に於て、再び、もののあはれは成り立つものです。ベンショウホウなどと 言ふ必要はない。たゞ、あたりまへの話だ。人は死ぬ。物はこはれる。方丈記の先生の仰有る通り、こはれない 物はない。
　もとより、私は、こはれる。私は、たゞ、探してゐるだけ。汝、なぜ、探すか。探さずにゐられるほど、偉く ないからだよ。面倒くさいと云つて飯も食はずに永眠するほど偉くないです。
　私は探す。そして、ともかく、つくるのだ。自分の精いつぱいの物を。然し、必ず、こはれるものを。然し、 私だけは、私の力ではこはし得ないギリ／＼の物を。それより外に仕方がない。
　それが世のジュンプウ良俗に反するカドによつて裁かれるなら、私はジュンプウ良俗に裁かれることを意とし ない。私が、私自身に裁かれさへしなければ。たぶん、「人間」も私を裁くことはないだらう。

Let me translate this (or attempt to, this is not easy stuff):

"Pardon me. I am completely hopeless. Why? Because I am no teacher. I am a student. And yet I dare to lecture.
I am but a single ball of unease. I am just searching. Be it women, the truth, whatever. I leave it to your imagination. I am just, definitely, searching.
However, that thing known as truth does not exist. Namely, truth has always been that thing which is searched for. People search endlessly for the truth, but the truth will never exist. It is a thing whose existence comes from that it is being searched for, and whose existence therefore implies its none existence. If there comes a time when truth comes into existence in our mortal realm, when truth's existence is here before us, then humans will have ceased being human. Humans will be nothing but pigs in the form of humans. The truth will be fed to humans, and the humans will eat it, no different than pigs.
I did away with traditional Japanese thinking, and denied the concept of the impermanence of things (mono no aware) and the thinking of the occult. However, what I say is not the truth, or anything close. It simply has some meaning of the era. I, defeated, for the sake of the defeated words, the lies are seen through, the arguments are won. Putting my denial aside, I once again hold true the impermanence of things. There is no need for something like a dialectic. What I am talking about is obvious. People die. Things break. Just like the Hojoki states, there is nothing which does not break.
I have been broken from the beginning. All I am doing is searching. "You. Why do you search?" Because I am not so grand as to not be searching. I am not so grand as to say "This is a pain" and sleep for eternity without eating.
I search. And, along the way, I create. I create things with all my might. But, these things will all surely break. But, for just me, with my effort, they just barely stay intact. But beyond that I can do nothing.
If that is to be judged by the corner that runs counter to the public order and morals of the world, then I have no intention of being judged by the public order and morals.
I must be judged only by myself. Probably, I am also no longer a judge of "humans".
"

Perhaps this fleshes out a lot of the philosophy...

[shmaster]

There is one thing in this episode that confuses me. What does Bettenou meant by "live, fall". And why Ingo's reaction to that is to save Hayami?

Could it be that Bettenou has deemed Hayami useless a expects him to be disposed off fairly soon? And Ingo, who does not want what Bettenou said to come true, saved Hayami?

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by shmaster

There is one thing in this episode that confuses me. What does Bettenou meant by "live, fall". And why Ingo's reaction to that is to save Hayami?

Could it be that Bettenou has deemed Hayami useless a expects him to be disposed off fairly soon? And Ingo, who does not want what Bettenou said to come true, saved Hayami?

See Shinjurou's line in episode 1 and the final episode:

"People fall."

It's not what you think at all. It's to say that to live is to fall. That humans are flawed and weak and cruel and at the same time search for beauty (truth) that doesn't exist.

Bettenou wishes for Hayami to live, and continue to fall like every other human.

[shmaster]

I considered this, but the question would be, why would Inga bothered to say Hayami if that's the case?

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by fertygo

Maybe I need to rewatch it again, but last 5 minute or so is confusing as hell to me.

Did Kaishou really kill someone then? (That guy in the car that explode) and other trivial stuff that I hard to point.

Well its seems only me that having problem though.

He did kill Mizuno because he had gotten some kind of dirt on him (what it was exactly is unclear since Rie cut Shinjurou off in the middle of his explanation). Kaishou killed two brids with one stone with the car explosion: he faked his own death to fool the one after him and he covered up Mizuno's murder at the same time.

[fertygo]

Originally Posted by Kanon

He did kill Mizuno because he had gotten some kind of dirt on him (what it was exactly is unclear since Rie cut Shinjurou off in the middle of his explanation). Kaishou killed two brids with one stone with the car explosion: he faked his own death to fool the one after him and he covered up Mizuno's murder at the same time.

So how come police not caught him and everybody is like "umm.. ok"?
Comes to think about it, maybe I'm not missing something, but more like their act make me dumbfounded. Still satisfying conclusion though.

[arson88]

I love the ending!!

[-Sho-]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Another minor complaint I have about this episode is that it was too easy to see through Kaishou's disguise (I recognized him the second he appeared) so it lessened the impact of the big reveal. Oh, and Inga and Bettenou's fight was a bit... unexpected (DO NOT WANT Inga's true form)

Yeah that was obvious. Inga vs Bettenou fight was wtf their true form

My other complaint is the ending they muted Shinjurou , damn , there were some developments !


Anyway , great show , too bad no 2nd season...