Madan no Ou to Vanadis [Light Novel]

[Apoptosis]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

We are talking about a monarchy here,not a republic.You can change a president every four years,you can't with a king.Besides,quite often,presidents do have executive experience before becoming president.

No one would choose Tigre as king if he isn't particularly talented or so weak-willed that he'd be easily dominated by a powerful noble that supports him.He lacks legitimacy,that means he needs to distinguish himself above candidates with an actual claim to the throne.By virtual of being a good commander isn't all there is to being a king.You are completely wrong if you think so.You need to be able to deal with the economy,societal problems,the law,education,diplomacy and politics.

This. But people keep arguing otherwise that connections is all he needs.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Steal-Man

... for real ?

.................. this is why this discusion is pointless , most of the more important people in history have charm enought to move and reign over people, ofc for that they have the will to do so, just see the example of another actor Arnold Schwarzeneger who just make use of this to take a place in politics(and now we use our brain to think about this and don't blind follow any idiot, and still he just took advantage of his actor status ...).

Every Emperor and worthy leader who have a sense of this just make use of the correct people to do their will and attain stability and teach their children of make use of this, since that is the really more useful skill that a leader need, the charm to make sure people will follow by they own will (u can just see the examples of every tyrant in the world).

Ofc there are another methods but the leaders of any army needs this as a most in their personality to claim themself leaders and ofc to make a country follow them too.

Most of people of more poorly origins got only they charm to make the things worth for them, ofc raw charm is not all you need , you need a bit of knowledge in another ways but commonly this is why most of this people study in order to attain the power throught this method, and history itself told us this every time and repeat much times the same thing.

Still doubts ? the example of how an terrible man could rise and take control of a country just to satisfy his needs is the 2WW, hitler was just a common bastard who awakes his talent to charm people after the first WW and use this talent to take over all europe and nearly domain it.

And how do you know who is good?Many rulers are just,even stupid old Louis XVI could be called a just king.The problem is that many of them,like Tigre,are too gullible to recognize who is a capable,good and loyal individual.A person's quality isn't written over his face you know?

As for Hitler,you do realize that he wasn't elected as Fuhrer or as Chancellor for that matter right?He got the position of Chancellor through thuggery and backroom politics with von Hindenburg(the so called Wooden Titan).

Originally Posted by Apoptosis

This. But people keep arguing otherwise that connections is all he needs.

People needs to realize that with only connections and no personal ability,Tigre is going to be an incompetent ruler no better than Ulysses S Grant.Ulysses S Grant was a brilliant general that's both honest and just;he was elected to the presidency of the US due to his fame and popularity in winning the American civil war.Main problem about him however,was that he was essentially a drunk who lacks the ability to find good subordinates,not much different than Tigre who prefers to sleep and hunt.He was too gullible to realize that the people he trusts are corrupt and incompetent.Similarly,we all know that the one thing nearly everyone comments upon is that Tigre is way too gullible.He generally accepts things without questioning them.He's a great general,but unless he develops other skills,he should stay a general.Replacing the ruling dynasty is going to bring significant turbulence to the country(civil wars etc). Unless he is exceptionally talented,he shouldn't bother taking the throne because the cons of civil wars would far outweigh whatever minor benefits his subpar skills would bring.

[SeaDam]

Originally Posted by Steal-Man

... for real ?

.................. this is why this discusion is pointless , most of the more important people in history have charm enought to move and reign over people, ofc for that they have the will to do so, just see the example of another actor Arnold Schwarzeneger who just make use of this to take a place in politics(and now we use our brain to think about this and don't blind follow any idiot, and still he just took advantage of his actor status ...).

Every Emperor and worthy leader who have a sense of this just make use of the correct people to do their will and attain stability and teach their children of make use of this, since that is the really more useful skill that a leader need, the charm to make sure people will follow by they own will (u can just see the examples of every tyrant in the world).

Ofc there are another methods but the leaders of any army needs this as a most in their personality to claim themself leaders and ofc to make a country follow them too.

Most of people of more poorly origins got only they charm to make the things worth for them, ofc raw charm is not all you need , you need a bit of knowledge in another ways but commonly this is why most of this people study in order to attain the power throught this method, and history itself told us this every time and repeat much times the same thing.

Still doubts ? the example of how an terrible man could rise and take control of a country just to satisfy his needs is the 2WW, hitler was just a common bastard who awakes his talent to charm people after the first WW and use this talent to take over all europe and nearly domain it.

I determined the discussion was pointless some time ago.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by SeaDam

I determined the discussion was pointless some time ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[chad001]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

So what you're saying is, in order to be come king, Tigre's going to need a strong following, some sort of crisis in the country, internal dispute, and a common enemy right?

EDIT: Oh and a really strong propaganda campaign.

Originally Posted by SeaDam

I determined the discussion was pointless some time ago.

Meh, more discussion is never quite pointless. In my eyes, watching people express their views, and have debates is the point of forums. I can't speak for anyone else but watching these diametrically opposed views has been relatively entertaining for me, at least. If it's bothering you though, you may wish to just ask them directly to stop.

[Apoptosis]

So Steal-Man was the straw that broke the camel's back, and finally we have a comparison to Hitler, hahaha!

[Steal-Man]

it was about time isn't it ?? xD

anyway i just want to end this nonsense and seems work perfectly

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by Steal-Man

it was about time isn't it ?? xD

anyway i just want to end this nonsense and seems work perfectly

You call the discourse going on a nonsense? So rather than intelligent arguments, you prefer what? shipping wars, nerds turned into overpowered, harem king and such?

I personally find it refreshing and quite interesting. I visit and participate in other high volume threads and they are probably more to your liking if you call what's going on here nonsense. If you are not already, visit a couple of the Web novel threads.

_________

By the way, I just re-read all the translated volumes again and can agree that Tigre really is useless on his own, for the most part. He is getting better lately though and has been applying lessons he learned from others as well as on his own. Like I said in my previous post, he is one lucky son of a gun by his encounter and gaining the trust and support of 5 of the 7 Vanadis' + Lim. Without them, he probably would have been dead some time ago.

As far as being King, although he might not be completely ready, I really believe that he will be forced into it by circumstances beyond his control. He has accumulated some important and relevant experiences recently and I think he will begin to grow more as trouble, big ones, catches him again. Let's see, some of the items in his resume:

1. Ruler of his own territory as an Earl for over 2 years.
2. Leader and General of the allied forces who defeated Thenardier and drove back Mouzinel.
3. Envoy (secret) to Asvarre for the King of Zchted. Negotiated a peace treaty between Asvarre and Zchted (with Sophia).
4. Leader and General of Tallard's forces who captured an enemy stronghold and held the main forces of the enemy at bay until reinforcement arrived. Plus a bunch of other deeds.
5. Arbiter who settled the feud of two villages who had been at odds for years in the Dukedom of Lebus.
6. His ability to come up with solutions to problems which even amazes those around him with more experience.

This list I think is evidence of his growing experience and maturing process which will be of great help to him in his future endeavors. I guess what I am trying to say is that he is now a far cry from the Tigre from the beginning of the story who was quite lazy and somewhat unreliable.

[Avrorrange]

I agree Tigre is getting better,but he still needs to kill his naivety and develop skills at reading another person.

About the diplomatic mission to Asvarre,I always regard it as somewhat of a failure.They basically put someone far more capable and devious on the throne of Asvarre.I think a wiser choice would have been to support both sides of the war and prolong it--wrecking Asvarre as a result of the civil war.

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

I agree Tigre is getting better,but he still needs to kill his naivety and develop skills at reading another person.

About the diplomatic mission to Asvarre,I always regard it as somewhat of a failure.They basically put someone far more capable and devious on the throne of Asvarre.I think a wiser choice would have been to support both sides of the war and prolong it--wrecking Asvarre as a result of the civil war.

Well Tigre didn't know about everything outside Zhcted yet and volume 11 could be Tigre's first debut to defend the attack from Sachstein if he really was asked to be deployed on western border.

Well i guess it can't be denied for Tigre to keep learning, he will be perfect soon enough because he will always go down to the battlefield.

[Apoptosis]

BTW, since the volume has Mila on it, can we expect more of her?

[Steal-Man]

Originally Posted by Armando99

You call the discourse going on a nonsense? So rather than intelligent arguments, you prefer what? shipping wars, nerds turned into overpowered, harem king and such?

i call this a nonsense since the author is not giving tigre any "king" status yet and soo discuss about tigre being a king is pointless since the author himself think tigre is yet not ready for the job,and many people around are just fighting for something that isn't exist yet.

About him been capable of the job , as i say he got all the minimun abilities and even excel in some of them; so he is capable for it and even if there are things he can´t manage is not like he need do all by himself, about him being naive... well is not like he is a super idiot who thinks the world must be a paradise and even him was said has purge (with his father) some places in order to overcome a sick, so he knows that there are thinks that can't been avoided even if he wants(there have been guys in history with even less skills and yet they did a good job in the place).

he is just overconfident of the good will of the other guys(clasic hero defect), but is also his strong point since that can make an enemy become an ally and it has been far long proved in the novel(the musolin guy in the latest chapter, mila,ellen ... and many many others sidecharacters in the novel), and is not like he is blind good with enemies to let them be if he is aware of them.

well that said we can change the subject of the discuss ?? is tiresome talk long of this matter since no one come with an understanding of the talk with the others...

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by Steal-Man

i call this a nonsense since the author is not giving tigre any "king" status yet and soo discuss about tigre being a king is pointless since the author himself think tigre is yet not ready for the job,and many people around are just fighting for something that isn't exist yet.

About him been capable of the job , as i say he got all the minimun abilities and even excel in some of them; so he is capable for it and even if there are things he can´t manage is not like he need do all by himself, about him being naive... well is not like he is a super idiot who thinks the world must be a paradise and even him was said has purge (with his father) some places in order to overcome a sick, so he knows that there are thinks that can't been avoided even if he wants(there have been guys in history with even less skills and yet they did a good job in the place).

he is just overconfident of the good will of the other guys(clasic hero defect), but is also his strong point since that can make an enemy become an ally and it has been far long proved in the novel(the musolin guy in the latest chapter, mila,ellen ... and many many others sidecharacters in the novel), and is not like he is blind good with enemies to let them be if he is aware of them.

well that said we can change the subject of the discuss ?? is tiresome talk long of this matter since no one come with an understanding of the talk with the others...

I'm gonna point this out before translations appear about 95% of what we discuss is gonna be exactly what this is speculation thoughts on what may happen and what we want. Plus there's something that comes with the fact they gave him that name back when they brought Reign to him. He may not be given King status but most things are implied at this point.

[Ramero]

I think it's time for the pictures of volume 11 to be released before the release of volume 11..

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

I agree Tigre is getting better,but he still needs to kill his naivety and develop skills at reading another person.

About the diplomatic mission to Asvarre,I always regard it as somewhat of a failure.They basically put someone far more capable and devious on the throne of Asvarre.I think a wiser choice would have been to support both sides of the war and prolong it--wrecking Asvarre as a result of the civil war.

You are a cold one but also a very calculated and devious strategist. Maybe you should be one of Tigre's advisors.

[nooneagain]

okay so, this novel is tagged as romance in several sites....is there actually romance? just wanna know. And up to what volume did the anime has covered? I was surprised when roland died that fast.

[ikramit]

Originally Posted by nooneagain

okay so, this novel is tagged as romance in several sites....is there actually romance? just wanna know. And up to what volume did the anime has covered? I was surprised when roland died that fast.

I would recommend starting from volume one as the anime was a terrible adaptation as for romance yes its an aspect but it is not a focus, I should also mention that this is very much a harem series were multiple female characters are attracted to the MC thankfully these relationships are developed over time and rather naturally . If your going into this wanting a large aspect of the books to center around romance however them your most likely going to be disappointed as their isn't a large romance component when compared with the other aspects of the book but what is their is for the most part rather well done especially for a harem series.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Armando99

You are a cold one but also a very calculated and devious strategist. Maybe you should be one of Tigre's advisors.

It's called pragmatism.If you don't want Asvarre to ally with an enemy to fight you,the best way to do it would be to wreck it completely.The Asvarrans can do it for you themselves.Placing Tallard on the throne is definitely a stupid move.

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

It's called pragmatism.If you don't want Asvarre to ally with an enemy to fight you,the best way to do it would be to wreck it completely.The Asvarrans can do it for you themselves.Placing Tallard on the throne is definitely a stupid move.

If Tallard make a wrong move against Tigre, the drawback will be a very fatal and even putting Asvarre into destruction itself. He is not quite proficient on the warfare throughout the story i read, on the other side Tigre's ability as a General was keep rising because of keep learning every battlefield even he inherit many tactics from his teachers such as Lim and Ludmila.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Ramero

If Tallard make a wrong move against Tigre, the drawback will be a very fatal and even putting Asvarre into destruction itself. He is not quite proficient on the warfare throughout the story i read, on the other side Tigre's ability as a General was keep rising because of keep learning every battlefield even he inherit many tactics from his teachers such as Lim and Ludmila.

To my understanding,Tallard is actually a highly talented commander.It's the reason why he managed to rise from being a mere peasant to a general in the first place.For a peasant to rise to the rank of general is a thousand times more difficult than an obscure count rising to the same position.

At any rate,he'd be a pretty serious threat in the future.I believe that taking him down would require a lot of sacrifices.Tallard's a smart man.After seeing the power of Tigre's bow,as well as the strength of the Vanadis,I'd assume he would try and gather supernatural powers of his own.