Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[mir]

Pheles running out of gas is like a hentai waiting to happen >.>

The episode itself was well done, perhaps the best of the series so far. The plot is moving along nicely and new twists are just around the corner. I am STILL waiting on Hecate to go back to normal, put on her white mage outfit and kick everyone's ass. Until then Pheles would do I guess...

[Rhyel]

This episode was a Flame Haze arena, Very cool. Best episode of this season.

[Ashlotte]

Originally Posted by S_K

Its about time! an episode worth the wait
Tanaka's eyes finallly opened!

Yea that was one of the best moments for the episode to me...For all the attention they've lobbed on yuji and his harem i'd say tanaka and ogi's little side relationship that only occasionally gets the spotlight has a helluva lot more emotional substance to it.

Frankly lately I just wish yoshida would go away and hecate would go back to her former self and let yujixshana develop more...Oh well atleast the season has finally heated up and become enjoyable.

[Kristen]

So, I got the action I wanted. But, it wasn't surprising that the action had absolutely no point to it. Fine, I understand the point of the fight, but it was like, why are they continuing to show this?
Tanaka's speech was just idiotic, Satou made no sense, Yuji was just the idiot he has been all season, and Margery was just too strange.

I waited three weeks to see a season 1 kind of storyline, and considering that everything was fixed in half an episode, I am heavily disappointed.

I won't stop watching this series since I started it, but for the first time since the start, I want the time I spent watching this series back.

3, because I felt this episode was that bad. All this waiting and build up for nothing.

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by cnnydz

no they can't. in the beginning a tomogara doesn't exist in the human world, so they need POE to exist. but because they are the equivalent of humans in the guze world, they can only use POE which is from the humans of the human world. so they can only eat humans.

ps: city devouring is feared because it can converts everything, including trees' and stones' POE into POE the tomogara can use. it can give the user unimaginable powers.

So they can't resort to cannibalism either?

By the way, anyone notice that Eita and Tanaka didn't have those halos around them while in the Fuzetsu?

[Aquifina]

I think my expectations were too high, and although the episode was okay, I felt vaguely disappointed. And although Yuji was able to deflect Pheles' first attempt at him--I actually think he did more than just cast a fuzetsu, but also somehow repelled her while doing that--he seemed more panicked than usual. Perhaps the shock of Pheles' appearance right after Shana's strange behavior in her short-circuited confession made him off balance. Margery's beserker mode and her rebuke by her underlings was actually well done, I thought, but things did seem resolved a bit too quickly.

[cnnydz]

Originally Posted by Aquifina

I thought, but things did seem resolved a bit too quickly.

yeah, but more is yet to come

Originally Posted by DX HBK

So they can't resort to cannibalism either?

they can, but tomogaras are rare and it is far easier if the food can't fight. when they fight they use their POE, it is likely they will get less than they spend

i hope the next eps will show a bit of johan/pheles and Wilhelmina's story, if not then
i wish to see pheles get pwned.

[holyman282]

I absolutely loved this ep and I don't see what so many people have against it. The action was awesome and brilliantly choreographed, the story has now started to get interesting and that little ending teaser with Konoe whispering something as well as pheles was just so well done.

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

So, I got the action I wanted. But, it wasn't surprising that the action had absolutely no point to it. Fine, I understand the point of the fight, but it was like, why are they continuing to show this?

Umm there was a point to that fight, let me explain:
-Pheles wants to reclaim Johan so she's going to erase Yuji
-Shana fights Pheles because she doesn't want Yuji to be erased.
-Margery is trying to kill Yuji because she saw his silver flame
-Wilheminna is trying to stop pheles from fighting while protecting Yuji because he's special to shana. She's also protecting Pheles because they were friends, hence she tries to stop Margery.

I don't know about you but there was a point to the fighting..

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

Tanaka's speech was just idiotic, Satou made no sense, Yuji was just the idiot he has been all season, and Margery was just too strange.

No it wasn't. They've built up that speech pretty well. I mean in ep 12 they've alread foreshadowed Margery's sympathy for her little henchmens and merely built upon that in this ep with Tanaka's speech to Margery. Certainly it wasn't articulated properly, but that adds to the reality of the situation. Certainly i hope you weren't expecting Tanaka to produce an award winning speech while his friends are "dying" around him.

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

I waited three weeks to see a season 1 kind of storyline, and considering that everything was fixed in half an episode, I am heavily disappointed.

If you are referring to the fighting scenes (which took half an ep) then yes it did finish in half an ep. What, did you expect this ep to be just one continuous battle? Then I would truly agree with you when you said that it had no point.

If you weren't talking about the fight scene, then I don't see how you can label things being fixed. I mean at the end of this ep, there were still more problems to be resolved then there were answers. So no it wasn't all fixed in half an episode.

I won't stop watching this series since I started it, but for the first time since the start, I want the time I spent watching this series back.

Fuzetsu!

[KaneDragon]

Great episode, couldn't resist giving it a 10 after all we've had to sit through.

Handwaving away the TORNADO and SHATTERING ALL WINDOWS IN THE SCHOOL was totally bizarre, though. For goodness' sake, you can't just say "gust of wind lol" and move on, even if they did fix all the environmental damage after the fact. Whatever.

Pheles is love.

[cnnydz]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

Pheles is love.

she is a lover isn't she hehe

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by holyman282

I absolutely loved this ep and I don't see what so many people have against it. The action was awesome and brilliantly choreographed, the story has now started to get interesting and that little ending teaser with Konoe whispering something as well as pheles was just so well done.

Put it this way: before this episode, Pheles was trumped up as some kind of extremely powerful Tomogara and the possibility of her appearance greatly distressed even Wilhelmina. And then, at the end of episode 12, her entrance was much more dramatic than most of the villains shown in the series so far. Winds blowing, people screaming, all that jazz.

See where I'm going with this?

Now, let's get back to episode 13, which continues the theme. Wilhelmina's shocked (note the repetive "get a grip!" by her whateveryoucallit), Pheles made Shana fly with her deadly punch and speed. It seems that she's just as dangerous as she's trumped to be after all. Action at last, Shana got the beating she's been lacking since episode 1, great and all, right? Well, suddenly, Madame I-created-the-best-Hougo-in-the-world weakens rapidly, and just as suddenly, Shana and Wilhelmina took her down in one *single* combo move. One. Even the idiot twins from the first season took much longer to kill.

That's why I'm a little disappointed really. Not as much as ChrissieXD, since I still think it's pretty fun, but I'd be lying if I go with the rest of you and say I think it's perfect and all.

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Put it this way: before this episode, Pheles was trumped up as some kind of extremely powerful Tomogara and the possibility of her appearance greatly distressed even Wilhelmina. And then, at the end of episode 12, her entrance was much more dramatic than most of the villains shown in the series so far. Winds blowing, people screaming, all that jazz.

See where I'm going with this?

Now, let's get back to episode 13, which continues the theme. Wilhelmina's shocked (note the repetive "get a grip!" by her whateveryoucallit), Pheles made Shana fly with her deadly punch and speed. It seems that she's just as dangerous as she's trumped to be after all. Action at last, Shana got the beating she's been lacking since episode 1, great and all, right? Well, suddenly, Madame I-created-the-best-Hougo-in-the-world weakens rapidly, and just as suddenly, Shana and Wilhelmina took her down in one *single* combo move. One. Even the idiot twins from the first season took much longer to kill.

That's why I'm a little disappointed really. Not as much as ChrissieXD, since I still think it's pretty fun, but I'd be lying if I go with the rest of you and say I think it's perfect and all.

Yeah, that's how I felt. Of course, if we move immediately into further complications, as opposed to Pheles and Wilhemina being best pals, it'll make things better. But things did seem to wrap up too quickly.

[KaneDragon]

Pie is SERIOUS F***ING BUSINESS!


So precious. ;_;

[blewin]

I'm a bit skeptical that Shana and Wilhelmina can defeat Majery and Pheles in just a few minutes. Furthermore, if Pheles has searched for Reji Maigo for so long, it's doubtful that she'd agree to halt her killing urge without even making a struggle for it (while she's bound by Wilhelmina). With these two less than perfect plot holes, I settle with a score of 8/10 for this episode.


*sure, the action is what we've all been waiting for, but to step back and think about it more, it's not as believable and great an episode as it seems*

[Neki Ecko]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Put it this way: before this episode, Pheles was trumped up as some kind of extremely powerful Tomogara and the possibility of her appearance greatly distressed even Wilhelmina. And then, at the end of episode 12, her entrance was much more dramatic than most of the villains shown in the series so far. Winds blowing, people screaming, all that jazz.

See where I'm going with this?

Now, let's get back to episode 13, which continues the theme. Wilhelmina's shocked (note the repetive "get a grip!" by her whateveryoucallit), Pheles made Shana fly with her deadly punch and speed. It seems that she's just as dangerous as she's trumped to be after all. Action at last, Shana got the beating she's been lacking since episode 1, great and all, right? Well, suddenly, Madame I-created-the-best-Hougo-in-the-world weakens rapidly, and just as suddenly, Shana and Wilhelmina took her down in one *single* combo move. One. Even the idiot twins from the first season took much longer to kill.

That's why I'm a little disappointed really. Not as much as ChrissieXD, since I still think it's pretty fun, but I'd be lying if I go with the rest of you and say I think it's perfect and all.

I am not disappointed about this episode, I think that alot of people is taken Pheles' power weakens out of context. I know that many people in here look at Yu Yu Hakusho(sp?) and what happen in the last Arc of it, if not I will give yall a spoiler.

Spoiler for Yu Yu Spoiler:

In the Saga of the Three Kings, Raizen was the strongest of three kings, and Yusuke's Ansector. He use to eat humans to maintain his strength but when he fell in Love with a Human women, he decide to never eat a human again, since then he was weaken more and more then he die and pass on his legacy to Yusuke.

Pheles and Raizen are the same in the way, they were two very powerful people, and when they were full power, nobody could even hold a candle to them and when you mention their name, alot of people will be scared because of what they use to be but because they fell in love with somebody who is human and they decide not to feed on humans/POE to honor them or to look for their lost love, so you can see why that they both got weak. Even know that Pheles was a powerful in the past but since she didnt feed on any POE for a very long time, you can see why she got weak. If she was at full power, then Shana and Wilhelmia wont even get a hit on her.

[gugumomu]

putting aside the lack of action in this season, compared to season 1, i think that this one is heavier on the story. in season 1 we learn about Torches/Tomogara/KingofGuze/ReijiMaigo and so on, realize that this is not a simple world that is shown to us, but the confruntations there are generally random. in this season, all those characters problems from season 1 have now built up in what seams to be getting to a general clash, everyone of those characters having solid motives for their actions. it's a somewhat deeper story than season 1, even if we were slightly bored so far

[Master Chibi]

Finally, this show is worth watching again.

I know people have been bickering back and forth as to what type of show Shana is (where's the action, it isn't action, it's light high school romance, etc), but thus far it's been absolutely nothing but dull, contrived, boring, and close to the point of not even worth watching. You could create a simple page of cliff notes to highlight the important occurences that happened up to episode 13 and be completely fine.

Because I mean if the show was meant to be romantic in any way, shape, or form, it's already failed horribly in that department. Yuji is absolutely oblivious to everything, Konoe turning things into a love rectangular was stupid, Shana reseting what she had in the first episode alone made me want to strangle her to death, and Yoshida is and will always be boring. I mean I got wayyyyyyyyyy more out of Tanaka showing some real, honest to god emotions towards Oga chan in this episode then the entire crap slinging fest we've been giving with Yoshida, Shana, and Konoe.

And the action thus far has been acceptable, but outside of Margary's flashback (which was quite good) there's been no excitement. Thankfully though, this episode has done away with that as it was very exciting and full of energy. Action should feel epic somehow, and this episode certainly had that air about it.

I mean that's what you should get with coupley shows that root themselves in another genre other then romance. You need a contrast to offset the romance, and vice versa. The guy has to protect his girl, or the girl for the guy, or the two of them will love each another no matter what comes along in hopes of stopping them, etc etc. This garbage with Yoshida and Shana pressing their face into windows and watching Yuji, or that disgusting attempt to be given advice by Yuji's parents (go out there and reach it or some nonsense) just wasn't worth wasting so many episodes on.

Bah. It's good to see Konoe is actually something other then a complete retard, so she'll have more importance in the story (which I'm sure we all saw coming miles away anyway).

And to reiterate, I'm so happy for Tanka x Oga.

Let's hope they keep it up for another bloody 13 episodes.

^_^

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Neki Ecko

Pheles and Raizen are the same in the way, they were two very powerful people, and when they were full power, nobody could even hold a candle to them and when you mention their name, alot of people will be scared because of what they use to be but because they fell in love with somebody who is human and they decide not to feed on humans/POE to honor them or to look for their lost love, so you can see why that they both got weak. Even know that Pheles was a powerful in the past but since she didnt feed on any POE for a very long time, you can see why she got weak. If she was at full power, then Shana and Wilhelmia wont even get a hit on her.

That's what I got from it too. Nonetheless, it was the execution of that plot point that really left me relatively disappointed (though I did give it a 7/10 rating).

For one, Wilhelmina apparently knows already that Pheles is weak from too much dieting (), yet she's scared out of her mind at the latter's appearance. Why? I never liked the maid much, but apparently not only is she boring, she's also not as coherent as she appears to be!?

For another, the show itself -- the characters' reactions, the background music, the choreography, the foreshadowing -- all point towards Pheles being the baddest badass Tomogara in the series yet. Now, there are many shows that give out deceptive impressions, and there are cases where they work excellently (Ghost Hound's first impressions of the Toudai psychologist character would be a good example), but this is not one of them. If they make me expect full-scale carnage, desperate heroes being pounded into dust, and all the fun that action series can bring in their full glory, then they better deliver it. Not everybody read the novels and know everything about Shakugan no Shana's plot points beforehand -- including probably a sizable part of the anime's fans.

Or, at least, make them look a little surprised. Let Yuuji be the smart guy he used to be and say something like "Why is she tiring so quickly?" Or extend the aftermath a bit. Really, they just talk for a minute and an eon's worth of questing is given up just like that. It's like Rammy saying, "bah, I don't need all that power anymore" after some random face said to him that he's better off, I don't know, doing something else.

But I digress, and I think I'm coming out as more disappointed than I actually am, so I'll stop now and hope for an equally good or better episode 14.

[Master Chibi]

I think you people are pushing waaaaaaaaaaay too hard on your dislike for this episode.

I mean this GIANT YELLOW TORNADO just popped up in the middle of the school festival, Yuji was about to bite the big one with two people gunning for him (am I going to die now, can I stop her, oh god oh god), Margary absolutely loses it (finally I found the silver, now I've got him, die die die), the entire school is in ruins (students become bloody ragged dolls being tossed about, Tanaka OPENS HIS FREAKING EYES once he sees what happens to Oga), Carmel has to keep Marg from killing Yuji (can she do it, how is she going to handle of this, is she still capable of kicking butt) I mean there's alot of crap going on.

I mean you said it yourself:

Not everybody read the novels and know everything about Shakugan no Shana's plot points beforehand -- including probably a sizable part of the anime's fans.

Instead of throwing a negative trait to Pheles suddenly becoming weaker, shouldn't you be offering up points of discussion as to why? Maybe she needs to be one with Reji or she'll die? Perhaps that tornado took alot out of her? There's countless things to consider.

Besides which, when was the last time you heard Yuji screech in horror like that? Wow that was fantastic. I know it sounds sadistic, but when a show doesn't cut back in scenes like that (the actual direction they went with on how Oga's body become a bloody bruised up mess being tossed aside by Marg's flame was superb) says alot.

You guys need to relax. Now we can finally dig deeper into this show. If Pheles was the end all of all things well then this would have been the last episode and everyone would have DIED, that's not exactly a smart way to go about things.

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

For one, Wilhelmina apparently knows already that Pheles is weak from too much dieting (), yet she's scared out of her mind at the latter's appearance. Why? I never liked the maid much, but apparently not only is she boring, she's also not as coherent as she appears to be!?

Wilhelmina doesn't want to fight Pheles. Not because she's powerful, but because she cares for her. That should be obvious from this episode.