[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 6 Dawn of the golden witch

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by the_rogue

And just as much as it can't be animated it NEEDS to be animated...somehow. EP6 was ridiculously epic.

You can't spell NEED without DEEN.

But you don't need DEEN to make an Umineko anime.

Unless no one else wants to.

With all honestly, I don't care how it would turn out because I'd still have the sound novels to turn to. I'd watch it nonetheless.

[aidmoon]

can somebody tell me about the duel between shanon and kanon please?
thank you.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by aidmoon

can somebody tell me about the duel between shanon and kanon please?
thank you.

It was an Ol' West duel. Each of them had a gun, with only one bullet. They walked some steps and they shot. However, only Kanon shot and Shannon dodged. Then Kanon went "Oh, you le didn't" jumped at Shannon and had her gun fly away landing near his. Each other them quickly grabbed a gun, but neither of them know which one had the bullet; so, they decided to just shoot. Shannon's gun had the bullet, and Kanon died.

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by aidmoon

can somebody tell me about the duel between shanon and kanon please?
thank you.

It would have been half as heartbreaking as it is if not for the fond memories they have flashing through their heads.

[ameskitty]

Originally Posted by immblueversion

It would have been half as heartbreaking as it is if not for the fond memories they have flashing through their heads.

Not to mention Moebeato's earlier audience-expy-style pleadings of "Why? Why? Why do they have to do this? Why can't love alone work?" that were ALSO flashing through my head as I saw those T_T.

[Used Can]

I found funny some of the explanations they told her:

- A married man cannot love another woman.
- A person cannot fall in love with his mother.
- You cannot love underages.

[ameskitty]

Funny in how completely ridiculous and cruel the comparisons were, yes :/. (although I admit even I laughed a bit at the last two - poor little innocent Moebeato)

[immblueversion]

I have questions about

Spoiler for this:

The trial for George, Jessica, Shannon, and Kanon regarding the first twilight.

1.) Who orchestrated it: Zepar and Furfur, Moetrice and Beatroll, both pairs, one of the four, Battler, or someone else entirely?
2.) Is it known why they were sent to kill the specific people they did, particularly all four aunts?
3.) Why was Moetrice pit against Natsuhi, or anyone for that matter? Was she being tested too, or was this of her own accord?
4.) What were the victims talking about before their killers engaged them?
5.) What form of resistance did the victims put up, if any?
6.) Specifically how were each of the victims killed as depicted in the trials?

This excludes Battler, who I know (or at least heard) was being controlled by his Game Master self to commit suicide.

By the way, these are general questions. I am already familiar with a handful of details presented in one or two of the questions, but nonetheless crave more.

[ameskitty]

Originally Posted by immblueversion

I have questions about

Spoiler for this:

The trial for George, Jessica, Shannon, and Kanon regarding the first twilight.

1.) Who orchestrated it: Zepar and Furfur, Moetrice and Beatroll, both pairs, one of the four, or someone else entirely?
2.) Is it known why they were sent to kill the specific people they did?
3.) Why was Moetrice pit against Natsuhi, or anyone for that matter? Was she being tested too?
4.) What form of resistance did the victims put up?
5.) Specifically how were each of the victims killed as depicted in the trials?

By the way, these are general questions. I am already familiar with a handful of details presented in one or two of the questions, but nonetheless crave more.

Spoiler for that:

1) Zepar and Furfur orchestrated a trial where they were to go to the gameboard and select one person to kill. If both people in a pairing successfully killed somebody, they moved on to the next trial. Moetrice and Battler were also included because Moetrice really wanted to become one with Beatroll again so she and Battler could fall in love again so she joined up.
2) They could kill whomever they wanted to. George killed his mother because she was in the way of his marriage. Jessica killed Kyrie, the first person she saw, because she was kinda wary about the whole thing. Kanon killed Rosa because he thought she was pitiful. Shannon killed Maria (who came raging back after her mom got killed) in defense of Kanon. Moetrice killed Natsuhi because Battler proposed in the last game that he might've been the baby thrown off the cliff, and if this was so then Natsuhi was Battler's enemy. Battler...well.
3) See previous two.
4) Eva turned into Eva-Beato and kept testing George on the things she did for him, but he stuck it through and killed her. Leviathan came to help Kyrie (and in fact stabbed Jessica in the head, but she lived through it through the power of LOVE and erm demons), then Kyrie hid herself in a locked room (but demon-Jessica constructed a locked room murder scenario and killed her). Kanon simply talked to Rosa, who explained her living "hell" of a situation, and gave he gave her an instant, painless death with his LAZER. Shannon used her shield to press a crying Maria against the wall because Sakutaro as a diplomat made her unattackable by attack magic. Natsuhi used her spirit mirror. Battler...well, again .
5) I think I've kind of explained that in 4.

[Raneh]

Originally Posted by immblueversion

I would love to see Chiaki Kon TRY.

But with all due seriousness, I still desire an anime. I don't care what studio makes it, just so long as they keep the seiyuu because I like them.

But I digress.

I'd love to have Chiru animated just to see Yukari Tamura as Bernkastel, it should seriously be funny. On the other hand Chiru has so much more theory and details than Episodes 1-4 that an anime would probably fail miserably at presenting it all.

Spoiler for ep6 thoughts:

Just finished Ep6 yesterday and I have to say that it was interesting from the beginning to the very end, unlike Ep5 which had kind of a boring start. I felt compassion towards this new 'chick' Beato and for the first time actually missed troll Beato. And whoa, how incompetent can Battler get, getting trolled over and over again.

Also, 'Lambda-chan fanclub' I'd definitely join.

[yuugi99]

My rank of eps 6 is kinda in a middle among the series maybe cause there is too much love in this game. With love, I can only see a biased story. What I want is ANSWER.................

Spoiler:

Which is why I am getting excited when Bern is going to become G.M at the end. Cause she will show a game without love. Without love, without bias, without illusion, only mystery, only truth.

If she show that, she will be one of my fav char.

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by the_rogue

Spoiler for that:

Eva turned into Eva-Beato and kept testing George on the things she did for him, but he stuck it through and killed her.

Spoiler for Another thing that is that:

Still kind of curious as to how George actually managed that physically. Did he pull another body-smashing move or something as what should have been demonstrated on Gaap in EP4?

Speaking of which, under what circumstances did George pair up with Gaap this time (and Jessica with Ronove, for that matter)? I imagine it's to move his mother's corpse, but still, was it arranged in the trial?

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by Raneh

I'd love to have Chiru animated just to see Yukari Tamura as Bernkastel, it should seriously be funny. On the other hand Chiru has so much more theory and details than Episodes 1-4 that an anime would probably fail miserably at presenting it all.

And since Erika is Bern's double, I imagine hearing Yukari as her as well and sounding something like loli-Rika on crack. Or maybe just regular Bern on twice as much crack. Or something.

I also want it to be animated to see all the seiyuu return because they are too awesome. Sure, there are still drama CDs and such, but I want to see the characters as in the anime again.

Originally Posted by Raneh

Spoiler for ep6 thoughts:

And whoa, how incompetent can Battler get, getting trolled over and over again.

It's only natural. Obsessing over bringing back a lost love can really mess up one's judgment.

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I agree that the latest episodes hint at some massive geographical alterations in the island, however I won't conclude that it's an explosion just yet because we don't have any information on the nature of the physical alterations just yet. Natural and man-made movements are very different, and whatever clues will be found will clearly distinguish between the two.

Well, the fact that Erika's

Spoiler:

death card actually says that there was a 六件島爆発事故 or in English Rokkenjima Explosion Accident more or less heavily implies that there was an explosion of some sorts, if it actually altered ANYTHING on the island except reducing much of the family to pieces of flesh and ashes is not revealed...

We only know that all evidence hinting towards Furudo Erika ever being on the island were gone, which leads me to believe she was never there and we have a typical detective fiction plot where the murder poses as the detective...only this time actually even taking on the appearence of said detective.

Now that I think about it, the lines Ashes to Ashes were said surprisingly often this Episode XD

[Klashikari]

I personally can't take completely seriously Erika's tips.
It is interesting and ties with several clues with Episode 1 notably, but remember that the characters TIPS and ending scroll also include fantasy elements, like "sent to hell, devoured by demons" and the like.

I'm not trying to act completely paranoid, but with the utter lack of epilogue and the like, I'm not even sure if the whole stuff regarding that explosion isn't an interpretation itself by the occult maniac, or another red herring crafted by Bern or something of that kind.

And there is one reason for that: it means Erika's red in Episode 6 cannot be applied at all, which is a nonsense for the red truth (seals and what she has done to the 5 dead, and Battler's room).

Except... perhaps it is a tips regarding what happened to Erika in Episode 1-4.

[MeoTwister5]

First summaries for today:

Spoiler for Ep6 summaries:

- The Beatos discuss how the brooches are only effective if you believe in them. Shannon demonstratd this. The toxin removes the magical properties. Beato1 finds this ironic.
- Beato2 says it will work again if the toxin is eliminated. Beato1 wonders about true magic if it doesn't work on non-believers. She also thinks about how magic can still work as long as the chances aren't zero.
- Beato1 says the power to believe makes magic, and Beato2 says that the person who made this belief possible was the witch. They liken it to a magician who makes a rabbit appear from the hat, to convince them that it is really magic.
- They try out Maria's magic. Beato2 closes her eyes as Beato1 says an incantation on the cup and table. A gold butterfly sprinkles gold on the cup and disappears. They open it and find a gold petal. Beato1 says in gold that magic created the gold petal inside the cup. It is wonderful magic.
- Side Scene to Ange. She remembers that without love, it cannot be seen. Featherine says it can depend on the person's toxin. Ange says the question of whether the golden brooch does itself allow love to blossom is true isn't answered. She asks why are furniture considered incapable of love, and why is the brooch magic required?
- Ange thinks the hints to the answers are both in Featherine's and Beato's stories. Ange contends that previously it was assumed that Shannon returned the brooch in another game (?), and here for Kanon (?) his bond was deepened with Jessica without the brooch. (However, if ShKanon is true, then the physical body would have the brooch when Kanon was with Jessica, which maintains the idea of the brooch's power). Why is the power needed again?
- Ange wants Featherine's opinion. She says Ange should continue reading because if she gives her opinion, she might accept it and stop thinking.
- There is some talk on Shintoism and Buddhism I can't translate. This is all however rooted on the concept of how much a person/furniture can change.
- Unlike the charm, the brooch is for a specific purpose for the servants. The two hope that the brooch gives true magic to grant their desires. Ange wonders what kind of magic is to be truly expected.

Rokkenjima 1986
- Jessica asks about the gold brooch. Kanon explains the brooch's supposed power. He shows her the brooch and how it supposedly allowed the chance of love between George and Shannon. He says that by having it, the effect is the same for both of them now.
- Jessica apparently doesn't really believe. Kanon considers it a miracle of the witch. He says the brooch has no power when divided into 2, but together they will grant the power to love (apparently they each had one? This is still rather suggestive of ShKanon).
- I think he tells the story of how they got the brooch by having Shannon destroy the mirror at the shrine?
- The golden glow shines and Jessica is surprised.

MetaWorld
- Kumasawa and Beato1 are talking as she eats. She bakes butterfly cookies.
- Beato2 apparently senes the love for Battler from Beato1.
- Battler enters suddenly with Genji. He asks why they're inside his study. Kumasawa says that she taught Beato1 how to bake so she can make cookies for Battler.
- Battler takes some time with the cookies. Genji I think is wondering why Battler isn't thanking her out of courtesy.
- After a moment, Battler says thank you, however he says he doesn't like sweets. He coldly again tells Beato1 to go back to her chambers. Kumasawa says she did it for him, Battler acknowledges this, but says a crucial game is going on. He prefers that Beato1 not try and imitate the Brato that he wants.
- Beato1 is sad. Battler tells Kumasawa to fix up but Beato1 says she'll do it herself. Kumasawa is angry and says Battler needs to be more appreciative and not step all over a woman's feelings. Battler is apparently suspicious of poisons and such.
- Beato excuses herself. Battler again says that she doesn't want her calling him Honorable Father. Kumasawa slams the door when they leave.

Yep. First Gold Truth of Ep6.

Spoiler for Gold Truth:

- Beato1: Magic created the golden petal inside the cup. It is wonderful magic.

[fish eric]

Originally Posted by Nabiki Asakura

*snip*
here's a screen saying that the police performed an inspection in the screne of crime, so that would mean that the mansion is intact, as for the corpses?

I understand what you are saying. But if you think about it this way: If an arsonist burns down a house and the authorities investigate the burned down house they are investigating a crime scene a place where a crime was committed.

Even if the mansion was exploded there is still evidence there. A bomb may break everything and spread things around, but the whole area is still the "crime scene" IMO

Originally Posted by Used Can

It was an Ol' West duel. Each of them had a gun, with only one bullet. They walked some steps and they shot. However, only Kanon shot and Shannon dodged. Then Kanon went "Oh, you le didn't" jumped at Shannon and had her gun fly away landing near his. Each other them quickly grabbed a gun, but neither of them know which one had the bullet; so, they decided to just shoot. Shannon's gun had the bullet, and Kanon died.

Wow, that really really really sounds like a metaphore for ShKanon. I havn't read the stories, just watched anime & reading manga, but the Shannon=Kanon theory sounded pretty unlikely until I just read that spoiler.

It seems like there is alot of evidence this episode pointing to the fact that only one couple can exists. Shkanon has to choose either to be with george or kanon.

Ew! What if that theory was right and Kanon didnt reveal himself to George until their wedding night. And then was all like "you told me you loved me forever and that you loved me no matter what."


Although there is so much circumstantial evidence this ep pointing towards Shkanon that it is probably a R7 red herring.

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I personally can't take completely seriously Erika's tips.
It is interesting and ties with several clues with Episode 1 notably, but remember that the characters TIPS and ending scroll also include fantasy elements, like "sent to hell, devoured by demons" and the like.

I'm not trying to act completely paranoid, but with the utter lack of epilogue and the like, I'm not even sure if the whole stuff regarding that explosion isn't an interpretation itself by the occult maniac, or another red herring crafted by Bern or something of that kind.

And there is one reason for that: it means Erika's red in Episode 6 cannot be applied at all, which is a nonsense for the red truth (seals and what she has done to the 5 dead, and Battler's room).

Except... perhaps it is a tips regarding what happened to Erika in Episode 1-4.

I thought of that, too.
But I found the Tips of Episode 6 to be a bit different, because they actually mention the ficticious world created by the mystery-authors.
In the end it is an equally 'hidden truth' as the fate of the 4th Siesta, you can't actually kill anybody 'new' except Erika, but her's holds real information.
There's no real reason for it to be a lie I think...would be a bad move to make this inconsistent to the storyline, because many people don't even try their way through all the Tips.

I think the person which is assuming the personality of Furudo Erika right now,
the mysterious guest, 18th/17th person, whatever, is probably not even killed along the others...actually if it is as hideous as they describe, anybody could have snuck out.
Adding to that is the fact that many people in several Episode's seem to know that it is best to distance themself from the mansion (Rosa in 2 and Eva in 3)...and we had the wave of golden butterflies in Episode 2, which could as well be burning ash flying around...
Also Shannon and Kanon (even if they were more or less meta-versions of themselves) knew that nobody was to survive the last night...the question is only why they knew that, because I still don't buy it that they all get to keep their memories.

It would also explain Erika's hatred and frustration if something destrcutive as an explosion actually ocurred.
It said in her profile, that there was no evidence found that she ever existed on the island, yet her body wasn't found anywhere else either...so she serves as a completely free roleX for another culprit.
Who knows, maybe the real Furudo Erika (whose soul is now traped in the Gisho-Kakera by Bernkastel) is always killed by her boyfriend and thrown into the ocean...it's a bit far off, but not impossible...

[MeoTwister5]

Battler Drama Mode GET!

Okay I won't mock him because I do sort of understand what he's going through. Almost made me shed a tear actually.

Spoiler for Ep6 summaries:

- Ange doesn't feel right to see Beato1 assisting Battler. She notices of course that Battler simply isn't happy with her.
- Ange feels some degree of hatred for Beato which makes her confused about the situation. She also understands that Battler's fight against the witch aren't based on hatred. She doesn't fully understand Battler's feelings for the game.
- Fatherine and Ange understand that this Beato1 may eventually become the full Beatrice. Ange calls on Beato1 to tell her story some more.
- Ange asks why she calls him Honorable Father. Beato1 says she was created as a piece by him. Ange wonders why there is so much conflict between him and his piece. Featherine likens it to a person who makes a tool. The tool is good if used properly, but it can also stab you in the foot if not used wisely. The tool itself is dependent on the creator.
- Ange asks why she's so devoted to him despite rejecting her. Beato1 says because her purpose is to serve him, and Ange asks if Battler gave her that purpose.
- Featherine thinks differently. She thinks this Beato1 was only made as a piece on the board (?). The rest of Featherine's dialogue is too difficult to translate. It's something about how Beato1 ends up being unused because she isn't the Beato he wants. Being unused, she wants to find another use for herself to Battler.
- Ange says it doesn't really answer why she's devoted to him. Featherine says Beato1 can't really answer because it's the only thing she knows she needs to do.
- All Beato1 can say is that she just wants Battler's happiness. Ange begins to wonder if this is similar to love. She also asks herself how she might also be devoted to the one she would love.
- Ange however thinks it must be freely given with a reason. This Beato1 to her seems not to know why she's so devoted. Some internal monologue from Ange too difficult to really translate, but it's roughly about her concept of love being freelygiven and understood.
- Beato1 admits Battler doesn't like being called Honorable Father. She says she doesn't want to be a burden to him since he has a big fight with the other witches ahead of him.
- Ange wonders if there's just something she's not seeing. Beato1 goes back to reading the kakeras. Ange is being pouty I think.

MetaWorld (Emo Battler mode)
- In the study, Battler is alone. He starts to hallucinate (?). He sees the cookies that were already taken away. He ends up wondering what kind of cookies they were. A nasty Beato and all her servants appear
- Okay right now I think these are just figments of his imagination.
- Some scenes of the servants talking about the cookies like they're having some sort of fun. Includes Virgilia, Gaap, Ronove and Stakes. God he's clearly hallucinating.
- He tries touching the pahntom cookies and they disappear. They turn to butterflies and the study becomes darkened again. The phantoms disappear as well except for Beato
- This Beato mockingly asks why he's so dissatisfied with the new Beato he created. Battler freaks and demands she disappear. Battler goes to lie on the sofa. She hears the words "The me you want is gone."
- He understands now that this Beato1 is really different from the Beato he wanted. He knows she is no longer alive. She says this Beato will not be like her until 1000 years pass. Even then with different backgrounds it might not come to pass.
- Battler knows Bern guaranteed she would never be revived. Illusion Beato mockingly says maybe this Beato will conk her head on a block of hard tofu and regain her memories. Battler is of course pretty much in emoland and says he will hope.
- He wants to recall the times they duelled and wants to know what she was feeling while they were against each other in those games. He refuses to acknowledge this Beato he is seeing. Illusion Beato calls Beato1 her daughter?
- She apparently entrusts Beato1 with completeing the 1000 year growth. She talks of the possibility of this Beato1 becoing her one day. Very long monologue from her rather hard to translate. She would say that as the the manifestation of the game's rules, Beato1 is the daughter of the rule that is Beatrice.
- Battler is crying and stuff, and finds a one-wing eagle envelope where the cookies were. His eyes are too clouded with tears to be able to read the message properly.

Sorry if the summaries are short and far between. Med school has started for 2010 and I really don't have a lot of time to play. Will put more tomorrow.

Edit - BTW whats the name again of the track that plays while Battler's pretty much all emo over Beato?

[Nabiki Asakura]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

It would also explain Erika's hatred and frustration if something destrcutive as an explosion actually ocurred.
It said in her profile, that there was no evidence found that she ever existed on the island, yet her body wasn't found anywhere else either...so she serves as a completely free roleX for another culprit.
Who knows, maybe the real Furudo Erika (whose soul is now traped in the Gisho-Kakera by Bernkastel) is always killed by her boyfriend and thrown into the ocean...it's a bit far off, but not impossible...

I was thinking about something...
And if Erika is just a ghost that doesn't know that she is dead?
Everyone's interaction with her is just fantasy, but she herself doesn't know it...

...obviously I'm just saying without any proofs, I was just thinking, that's it. I would say that she could be a personification of Maria's rose or something, but that's impossible XD