Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Rising Dragon]

Hey guys--instead of flaming me further for my opinion about the love triangle, maybe one of you more Shana-savvy members can answer my question from before?

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Shana, Marcocias, and Wilhelmina all seemed to act like they already knew the truth about the Silver's manifestation--was that the information that Wilhelmina was going to tell her in season 2 before Pheles showed up? Or back then was she only going to tell them about Yuji's silver-colored flame?

[Deathscyther]

Great episode! 9/10. I won't give it a 10/10, because I'm expecting even better episodes to come.

Loved the plot progression and revelations that were done. We finally know why.

Although the way Yuji's doing it might be cruel, I think it's honorable that he trying to change everything in order to make sure that everyone will be save from the guze no tomogara. That seems to be his goal. He's trying to achieve this goal for something more personal than just protecting everyone though. He wants Shana, his love, to get a better life....that she'll be more than just a tool of destruction. He sacrificed the bonds with family and his friends and even his existence for Shana's sake. He must really love her. I hope that Shana will recognize this.

The fight was pretty awesome as well. Shana, Margery and Wilhelmina didn't even stand a chance. Yuji is just too strong for the flame haze to battle at the moment. A huge power of existence, the reiji maigo, blutsauger, azure, a whole army of Silver and hair that you can bitchslap people with.....that's just badass.

Yuji didn't have to fight that much though, because he played his cards well this episode. He used his brains to win this one, just like he always does. He mentally broke Margery, he knew Wilhelmina would protect Margery and he knew that Shana wouldn't be able to fight him at 100%. I guess we'll see his full power later on.

I guess that Shana would have done a tad better normally (she would still lose though), but she couldn't use her full power because she was doubting whether to fight the one she loves or not. At times it even seemed like she agreed with his reasoning. Let's see what will happen to Shana now that she'll to be taken to the headquarters of 'the bad guys'.

Just like most of you I'm happy that Yuji made clear to both Shana and Kazumi that he loves Shana. It will be interesting to see what both girls will decide to do after hearing this.

It'll be hard for especially Shana, since the mission of the flame haze is the core of her existence. Now she'll have to choose between Yuji and her mission. This will be hard for her. But if you look at it from another perspective....if Yuji really thought of a way to stop the guze no tomogara from devouring power of existence, then Flame haze won't be needed anymore, right? Isn't this according to the mission of the flame haze? I wonder if this is going on in Shana's mind as well.

Can't wait to see the next episode!

[Primary Consult]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Shana, Marcocias, and Wilhelmina all seemed to act like they already knew the truth about the Silver's manifestation--was that the information that Wilhelmina was going to tell her in season 2 before Pheles showed up? Or back then was she only going to tell them about Yuji's silver-colored flame?

I don't think Shana/Alastor knew anything other than that the information would not be good. Remember in Season 1 after Shana defeats Margery, Rammie warns her to not chase after the Silver. Alastor indirectly asks for further clarification and is indirectly denied.

[SkyFlames]

I waited this moment since I saw the bridge scene at the end of OVA 4, but after so long time, it's finally here. It was a little more confusing than how I remember it from the light novel, in first place I though that Yuji and Snake were clearly separated one from the other, with the voice changing. But seems that Yuji not just earned the Snake's knowledge, but as well his feelings and personality.

[mod edit: removed this paragraph that discusses some material from the novels that was not explained yet]

Nothing to say about the Shana vs Yuji battle, except that when everyone said that the Shana body would be 'bloodbathed', I spected a little more of damage than some burns and cuts.

Even when some disagree, I'm relieved that the love triangle finally end. It's not because I don't like love triangles, but this was one was annoying because Yuji never seemed to consider Yoshida over Shana, he was just making time to get the enough courage to tell Yoshida to step aside. And yeah, he needed a God's existence to do that. I believe that all the Yoshida hate is produced only for how annoying they made her at Season 2, insisting and practicaly gifting herself to Yuji, without any real advance between their relationship since Yuji was 100 of the time thinking about Shana or solving his own Guze related problems.

I loved the adaptation of the novel and the animation, 10/10.

[n120cky]

I give it 8/10 because I think this fight can get more instead of 1 episode long, anyway I think I understand why Yuji attack Margery mind, I think she is the second brain of the group without Yuji around, so when Yuji disable her, he will effectively turn the tide of battle.
I haven't read the novel yet, as for Yoshida I do hope she not only go around as one of Triangle girl, I mean would it be great if she become a Flame Haze and join the fight?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Deathscyther

I guess that Shana would have done a tad better normally (she would still lose though), but she couldn't use her full power because she was doubting whether to fight the one she loves or not. At times it even seemed like she agreed with his reasoning. Let's see what will happen to Shana now that she'll to be taken to the headquarters of 'the bad guys'.

If Yuji can achieve what he claims to want to achieve, why wouldn't Shana want that?

But, of course, the devil is in the details. What means must be used to achieve Yuji's desired ends? Are the costs worth it? At a more basic level, just how viable is his plan, really?

It's only normal for Shana to have these questions in the back of her mind, and causing her to second guess who or what she should side with. It's slightly disappointing that her and Yuji couldn't have, you know, a normal conversation about this. It's not like the two don't know one another.

Still, I realize that if everything was solved by diplomacy early on, you couldn't get the action scenes of this episode, so I'm fine with it for now.

But yeah, eventually, Yuji needs to explain what precisely he plans to do.

[redflame]

To answer the first question, Shana does want it, but we don't know if Yuji can actually achieve what he claims to achieve. Yuji is on Bal Masque's side, so what he could be doing now could be really bad and dangerous. I can't reveal anything about what happens next, but keep watching and I'm sure you'll find the answer.

[MeoTwister5]

Finally the show is doing what it does best, and is still doing it in a way few other shows can imitate. The excitement of battle coupled with the urgency and gravity of the situation. Everything falls apart in mere minutes as Shana is taken away and Margery falls into laconic despair.

Good to have you back, Shakugan no Shana.

[ElricKeyblade]

Animation of Yuji revealing his feelings to Shana, a scene that I had waited YEARS to see: Check

A plot in which I didn't feel the need to skip anything over: Check

The resolution of a love triangle that should have been resolved in the first season: YOU BET THAT'S A CHECK.

Well, looks like a 10/10 here, folks.

[TruthsWraith]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's only normal for Shana to have these questions in the back of her mind, and causing her to second guess who or what she should side with. It's slightly disappointing that her and Yuji couldn't have, you know, a normal conversation about this. It's not like the two don't know one another.

Still, I realize that if everything was solved by diplomacy early on, you couldn't get the action scenes of this episode, so I'm fine with it for now.

But yeah, eventually, Yuji needs to explain what precisely he plans to do.

I see this conversation now.

"Hey Shana I just fused my body and soul with a being that is known to rival Alastor this being was sealed ages ago because according to Alastor he was mad with power and tried to size creation. oh but don't worry we have a plan. Also yeah I'm a crimson lord now as well not a mystes and this was by my free will so I just became the things you have hunted for your entire lifespan. So want to head to the Bal Masque base and chat over tea? I'll even have the Bal Masque Trinity serve the tea oh before I forget i'm the grand master of the Bal Masque now so don't worry about them anymore i'm sure it will be fine especially considering my other half seems to think only you can stop this master plan of ours"

Okay now that thats out of the way in all honesty Yuji is kind of in a bad situation when it comes to telling her any of his plans. Alastor given just his reaction to who fused with Yuji would most likely warn Shana against any plan. Also there is a chance that Yuji is under mind control which Margery and Wilhelmina really seem to believe early on even if Yuji tells themm he is not how can they tell?

Yuji also has the problem of him now being a Crimson lord and even worse he is now the grand master of the force that has been hounding them for the past 2 seasons which really does not help his case at all. Also one must consider Shana has been raised her entire life to be a flame haze and to kill any Denizens that upset the balence...if that level of power that Yuji showed is to be belived I think he is upseting the balence a tad bit so has a flame haze Shana by principle being a proud flame haze would have to kill him.

So as a flame haze Shana would view him as a threat but as Shana she would view him as Yuji which would be a nightmare to her. Also she also would realize Yuji has ordered other flame hazes deaths when she realizes he controls Bal Masque and they seem to be getting more aggressive towards flame hazes lately.


Yuji probably realizes most of this so being agressive makes sense in this context especially considering last episode Yuji flat out said the only person who could be a problem this plan was Shana herself so its not worth the risk that Shana would just tail it.

[Merilyn Mensola]

Originally Posted by Ec1ge

Dude as much as people hate Kazumi (including me), without her in the show as a character, Shana would've never have grown from the person she was before.
Without Kazumi,

- Shana would've never have realized that she loved Yuji.
- Shana would never have socialized with humans

And most importantly, without another love interest, the story [as horrible as this statement sounds, would've been generic and boring. :l

I agree....this a good point...i don't dislike Kazumi.., but also i don't like her...

However...without her.., probably Shana would've never have realized that she loved Yuji...

The love triangle..in this show...was really good..for some reasons.....

And i'm glad too see people give a 10/10 in this show..becouse this show deserves them after all....

[klare]

"I started a war so i can protect u" i think Yuji is not making much sense... he should explain more about his intentions in the future

in the preview, Shana is in sleeping dress and Yuji is there too... interesting

[Miraluka]

Spoiler for Suffering:

Poor Ganta her never ending torture will never end:


Hope this gets fixed on the BD's.

Originally Posted by SkyFlames

Even when some disagree, I'm relieved that the love triangle finally end. It's not because I don't like love triangles, but this was one was annoying because Yuji never seemed to consider Yoshida over Shana, he was just making time to get the enough courage to tell Yoshida to step aside. And yeah, he needed a God's existence to do that. I believe that all the Yoshida hate is produced only for how annoying they made her at Season 2, insisting and practicaly gifting herself to Yuji, without any real advance between their relationship since Yuji was 100 of the time thinking about Shana or solving his own Guze related problems.

The problem is... there never was such Love Triangle, just at looking the tittle I convinced myself that there is no way and in the novels pretty awful how is handled this so-called love triangle.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

If Yuji can achieve what he claims to want to achieve, why wouldn't Shana want that?

But, of course, the devil is in the details. What means must be used to achieve Yuji's desired ends? Are the costs worth it? At a more basic level, just how viable is his plan, really?

It's only normal for Shana to have these questions in the back of her mind, and causing her to second guess who or what she should side with. It's slightly disappointing that her and Yuji couldn't have, you know, a normal conversation about this. It's not like the two don't know one another.

Still, I realize that if everything was solved by diplomacy early on, you couldn't get the action scenes of this episode, so I'm fine with it for now.

But yeah, eventually, Yuji needs to explain what precisely he plans to do.

I'm pretty sure diplomacy went out the window when Yuji started sending people around to crush Outlaws and pretty much declaring war. I'm sure nearly killing Margery didn't exactly help any chances to have a conversation either.

Unfortunately Shana has her side and Yuji decided to stand on the other side of it. While his goal should have a good result, I doubt it's simple or acceptable to someone like Shana who tries to keep the balance. If it's something that could be accomplished without bothering that balance then he and the Bal Masque leader wouldn't be working with Bal Masque.

I think the issue is less Shana figuring out who to side with here. More taking in that this is Yuji and having to steel her resolve that it may be necessary to kill him. Guess they should have just gone with Carmel's plan back in season 1 and saved the trouble .

Geeze Yuji is just hax now . All the stuff needed to protect him when weak now makes him nearly impossible to bring down. An anti-flame ring, Reiji Maigo, and Blutsauger. Maybe they can drop a meteor on him .

[Senshigeia]

Hmmm, I think Yuji's decision about "starting a war to save Shana - and all the people he loves" is quite beautiful and romantic actually... He is not bad, he just wants to change the world. And him almost killing Margery was a strategy, well thought if I might say so.

Actually, I like this Yuji: powerful and a fighter. Like he said in episode 3 of this season, just a little torch could come this far.

Of course Shana will stand. She is divided between her ditty and a Frame Haze and her love for Yuji. And she always knew having a relationship with someone, specially a torch like Yuji, would be very difficult; that's why she told Yuji to become stronger in the first season.

[Rising Dragon]

Yuji didn't order the attacks on Outlaw, though--well, maybe the more recent ones, but Bal Masque was stomping those out of existence back in season 2.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Ec1ge

Dude as much as people hate Kazumi (including me), without her in the show as a character, Shana would've never have grown from the person she was before.
Without Kazumi,

- Shana would've never have realized that she loved Yuji.
- Shana would never have socialized with humans

I agree with some of this, but that was established by the end of season 1. Then they decided to drag it and even send people backwards which makes it the most frustrating part.

And most importantly, without another love interest, the story [as horrible as this statement sounds, would've been generic and boring. :l

But the romance part is still generic and boring. It's a dead horse so I won't elaborate.

Don't get me wrong though. This episode is a huge day for fans and I expect great things to come.

[Demi.]

No romance in Shana is what it would take for me to truly enjoy this series. Shana has some of the worst romance I have ever seen. Because of that, season 2 was a real chore to watch. And it never paid off.

[Ec1ge]

Originally Posted by Demi.

No romance in Shana is what it would take for me to truly enjoy this series. Shana has some of the worst romance I have ever seen. Because of that, season 2 was a real chore to watch. And it never paid off.

Well as much as a pain Season 2 was, it did at least teach both Shana and Yoshida something about jealousy and their feelings when it came to Yuji (even though 99% of the fans didn't approve of it)

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Ec1ge

Well as much as a pain Season 2 was, it did at least teach both Shana and Yoshida something about jealousy and their feelings when it came to Yuji (even though 99% of the fans didn't approve of it)

Kinda ironic when the message that Shana and Kazumi learned was utterly lost on the audience.