2009-11-01, 00:28 | Link #61 |
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I've actually had that thought, myself. Still, there's been nothing to suggest that he's dead in the manga's storyline so far..... However, if Shiki is still alive in the manga, then he'd undoubtedly be a Yonkou-level opponent, since he was known to be as legendary a pirate as Roger and Whitebeard. Of course, even if he's Luffy's enemy in the movie, the same may not hold true for the manga...... |
2009-11-01, 01:10 | Link #62 | ||
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For example, when we talk about Magellan sailing the 7 Seas, we do not preface the statement by saying "When Magellan was alive...", no we simply say that he sailed the 7 Seas. Shiki has only been addressed as a man that broke free of Impel Down (somehow, for all we know he could have had help escaping, ala Naruto and friends), nothing has been said to indicate that he did much else afterwards... In other words, it is just as likely for him to be alive in the manga, as it is for him to be dead... Then again, he is probably alive kicking it with some homies in Zihuatanejo (cause that's where you go after escaping from prison)... Quote:
In the end, Shiki will undoubtedly be strong, but I seriously doubt that he will actually be of a similar level to Whitebeard or Roger (or Shanks, Mihawk, Garp, Sengoku, etc), otherwise any lose he may have with Luffy and company would be too plot-contrived, in fact so plot contrived that a miniture black hole will form in the theatres because of the sheer suckage involved in making a Yonkou level opponent lose to a current version of Luffy... |
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2009-11-01, 08:14 | Link #63 | |
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Also, who says that Shiki has to lose? For someone of his stature, it would be a refreshing end if he and Luffy part ways acknowledging and respecting each other as worthy pirates. Luffy's primary objective is to rescue Nami. He doesn't necessarily have to defeat the antagonist to do that.
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2009-11-01, 12:45 | Link #64 | |
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2009-11-01, 23:56 | Link #65 | |
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Well, there's a pretty big difference between Buggy, who started out as a small-time pirate in East Blue (which is considered to be the weakest of the 4 blue seas,) and is now gaining infamy because of a string of blunders, and Shiki, who was spoke of as being a legendary pirate by the likes of people like Whitebeard, Garp, and Sengoku. Of course, I understand your point - that Shiki's reputation may be a weeee bit exaggerated. But I kinda doubt that Oda would be going through all of this trouble to explain Shiki's backstory to us in these special manga chapters/anime episodes just to ultimately prove that the guy was nothing special. Now, as much as I don't like to admit it, Shiki most likely will be nerfed for the movie. However, rather than blaming that on plot contrivance, I'd blame that on length..... after all, a 2-hour movie can't really cover the same amount of content as a mega-arc that spans several chapters/episodes, can it? However, the way I see it, that'll make his presence in the manga all the more impactful (whether he's still alive or not), since Oda can flesh out the character in the manga much more than he can in an all-too-brief movie storyline. In a way, I'd say that Oda could handle Shiki completely opposite of.... oh, say someone like General Grievous from Star Wars Episode III (who went from being a Jedi-slaying badass in the Clone Wars cartoon, to ultimately getting jobbed by Obi-Wan in the movie itself. Boy, did he disappoint me.....). Also, as I mentioned before, even if Shiki's alive in the manga, he doesn't necessarily have to be Luffy's enemy. If anything, he could be a retired pirate like Rayleigh who'd rather lend a hand to the new generation instead of dwelling on past glories. But I guess only time will tell how Oda will handle the character in the future....... And.... yeah, I also sort of disagree about the whole thing about Luffy losing to Croc and Moria. Yeah, Luffy did make use of a couple of handy plot devices to beat them, but he still struggled to win in the end. His victories weren't exactly handed over to him or anything...... |
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2009-11-02, 15:17 | Link #66 |
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I just had a thought:
If the timeline in volume 0 took place in Gol D. Roger's era, we could probably find out about how Whitebeard became a Yonkou along with Shanks and Kaidou. And the best part is- we could possibly see who the fourth Yonkou is. |
2009-11-02, 19:46 | Link #67 | |
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As for the Yonkou, we're not even sure if the 3 party system existed back then. The marines certainly were around dealing out justice to pirates, but it's unknown if the Shichibukai and Yonkou had been established as factions of power during Roger's era. @James - I think your logic of what constitutes boring is somewhat flawed. Even if the hero doesn't win against the villain, the movie/story can still be very entertaining. Let's say that Luffy and Shiki have a fight of epic proportions and the result is a stalemate. Do you mean to tell me that outcome would spoil the film for you? Come on now; that doesn't justify a film as being boring. If anything, it would be more interesting for Luffy to not emerge as the victor. Such an ending would deviate from the same old "Good guy beats bad guy" routine. It's always good to have originality, which makes something one of a kind.
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2009-11-02, 20:03 | Link #68 | |
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2009-11-02, 21:03 | Link #69 | |
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Having a new threat that suddenly emerges out of nowhere and forces the two combatants to join forces is cliché. That's been done so many times before. A movie also can have adequate character development. It's true that its shorter length in comparison to a book or series makes accomplishing that more difficult, but that doesn't mean it's not feasible.
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2009-11-02, 21:40 | Link #70 | |
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As a basic story, it would make no sense that Shiki would steal Nami in the first half-hour; have minor fights with the Strawhats in the next half-hour; and then finally fight Luffy in the last half-hour, only to then give up since he "respects" Luffy - you cannot, within a Shounen movie, adequately explore the reasons why Shiki would stop fighting Luffy after only being an enemy for half-an-hour . Shiki will either be defeated by Luffy (if Shiki is less powerful than Roger (etc)), die by over-exerting himself, or be defeated by someone like Whitebeard (this will only occur if Shiki is as powerful as Roger and the others). In other words, you are hoping for way to much with this film. It's nice that Oda wrote it (and designed everything for it), but since it is not necessarily canon (it could be canon, as so long as it takes place before Sabaody...but that would instantly destroy any tension)), and will only be confined to a 90 minute film, it seems fairly safe to say that by the end of the movie, one way or another, Shiki will fall, even if it is not necessarily by Luffy's hands... |
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2009-11-02, 23:46 | Link #71 | ||
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Anyways, volume 0 will hopefully confirm how powerful Shiki truly is.
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2009-11-03, 00:31 | Link #72 |
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Ah, but then we encounter the problem of whether or not the manga chapter is actually canon or not, and if it is, whether the subsequent film is actually connected to the chapter (i.e. the manga chapter could be canon, but that doesn't make the film canon)....
Last edited by james0246; 2009-11-03 at 01:08. |
2009-11-03, 19:01 | Link #73 | |
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I'll concede there's a very good possibility the movie won't be canon, but volume 0 will most likely contain information that is vital to the overall plot.
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2009-11-03, 19:19 | Link #74 | |
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Personally, I have great trepidation over the fact that the first time I am potentially going to see Roger in action (something I have been waiting some 8 or so years to see), will be when he is fighting a character that didn't even exist (in the manga) until 25 or so chapters ago... |
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2009-11-03, 19:50 | Link #75 | |
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2009-11-04, 21:13 | Link #76 | |
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2009-11-05, 02:22 | Link #77 | |
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If in vol o manga shiki fight roger and get ass kick and crew destroy and then went to ID . It still does not tell us how strong he was . In the latest manga chapter squardo fought roger got he crew wipe out. If he was then send to ID and broke out it would be just like shiki. 20 years is long time , in 20 years WB has gotten weak , they could even use that for shiki if they wanted. Being a legend does not mean that person is strong all the time. |
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2009-11-05, 06:58 | Link #78 |
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I'm not sure how I feel about Nami being abducted again for a movie plot. They already did that in the second movie. The previous movie, she was sick the lions share of the time. This looks like it's going to be a big fight where Luffy saves Nami. Mind you, it looks like it will be an amazing one. Oda is writing this one. So, I guess we should just have faith in him.
In that trailer, it's weird seeing Zoro and Luffy shooting guns.
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2009-11-05, 16:03 | Link #79 | |
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Yeah, I found that odd, myself. It's especially funny when you remember that Luffy's crappy with weapons in general, let alone guns. Well, I guess they can only get away with this in the movie...... |
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2009-11-18, 19:25 | Link #80 | |
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